://

EXACTLY I was real hype for this but these recent chapters just makes ye eun as toxic and uaing as possible ive come to dislike her. And i feel disgusted

i totally agree!! but shes been so gross and manipulative. i mean come on making dorim wear glasses like jiha and then making him pretend to be his OWN BROTHER?? fucked up. and rude. so far i feel bad for all the dudes in this...

Its just so nasty. Shes using them to figure out her feelings

yea if your moral sensibilities are being hurt with just this, maybe you should stay away from the BDSM or the Yoai genre. no matter how much virtue signalling you do in the comment section the appeal isn't going to change, you should just drop and leave the rest of us to enjoy it.

I would like to correct you in mentioning there are different levels of intensity in non-consensual sex in yaoi manga. Most yaoi tends the play the 'sex you didn't know you wanted trope' which is clearly not depicted in these recent chapters. I get some of you guys get off on the fantasy of rape but please don't spread lies. Consensual sex, and consensual bdsm does exist in yaoi.

well plenty of yoai feature this lack of consent motif (amount of is just a technicality the point is its an all too common theme and bad either way right?) which everyone seems to have an issue with here (which is ironic as most of their watchlists are filled with such smutty yoai's with rapey alpha beta dynamics) if its not one larger male dominating a smaller one in some way via pushing him against something initiating sexual activity disregarding any pleas to stop (as if thats not appealing to rape fantasy) they wont overlook it? of course its wrong but most aren't reading these fetish manga's for "compelling story" with all of these webtoons (which isn't many tbh) featuring femdom I've never seen such a backlash for consent and for some reason I cant help but be strongly aware of the difference of gender even frustrated all the times I've been told this exact excuse "its smut/yaoi what did u expect?" would they be fine with it if the main lead was the one getting gagged and screwed? (woman appearing in pain or crying during sex is often fetishsized to the point people are desensitized to it right?) or two hot bishounens? I dont really notice any mention over the importance of consent from male readers who read NTR or ecchi either (go figure) sex sells and the majority of yaoi and Bdsm target these audiences.

"Most yaoi tends the play the 'sex you didn't know you wanted trope' which is clearly not depicted in these recent chapters."
It's the entire point of the latest chapter. You don't even have to read between the lines for in since the MC straight out tells us that this is what it was.

Sex with absolutely no enjoyment on one party's end is something that many readers don't like in the yaoi genre and outside of it, male and female. And it's completely valid for people to express there opinions about it.

I didn't really have an issue until this recent scene with jiha. There was no enjoyment in that sex at all.

To say people who are reading fetish manga aren't looking for compelling stories is a huge generalization. There aren't many stories with this dynamic, so there are going to be people who want a good story mixed with those who do not.

In yaoi comment sections I always see varied opinions for super rapey yaoi stories (talking about sex where the uke isn't enjoying it at all).
Maybe a reader liked one story for how interesting it was or how the sex was executed, there are lots of factors.
But people need to be open to hearing other's opinions whether or not they agree.
That is the main point.

Maybe years ago the main focus of Yaoi was rape this rape that, but the genre has really expanded since I was younger and it's very dishonest to say "this is going to have rape in it because it's yaoi, bdsm, or what ever else." That is absolutely not true.

Yaoi and hentai aren't really too similar to me, as yaoi is tailored in a certain way (you could say slightly more delicate way) to appeal to female audiences.
A better comparison to hentai would be Bara (which normally lacks story and blasts the rape level to a way higher volume for a different audience).

Also it's kinda funny cause I watch hentai and all you see in the comment sections of NTR hentai are men complaining, some saying they got hard but hated it or couldn't watch it at all.
NTR is notorious for being unliked in the hentai community.

Even men are diverse and have things they like and do not like in hentai, the formula for sex is just done differently to appeal to men specifically.

I think we all understood what you meant the first time. That's not really the problem here. The problem is that it's getting really annoying when people who read and enjoy BL stories that are straight out rape or even gangrape come in here after every update and complain about how rapey it is or how MC isn't treating the men good enough.
As of writing this, 9 out of 20 topics on the first page are about this being rapey and or a bad representation of BDSM. Now, compare it to the comment section in Painter of the Night. Even when I go back to the last update (because there is no rape in the current chapter) I can only count at best 3 topics that call out rape or abusive behavior (kind of hard to categorize sometimes) among the latest 20 topics in response to the rape chapter. So three times as many as here despite the fact that Painter of the Night wasn't like this in the beginning but S flower hasn't really changed. Even your complaint about nobody enjoying the rape in the latest chapter isn't really accurate as I explained in my last post (it should be even more obvious that he enjoyed it in the upcoming chapters). Yes, the beginning was more rapey than usual (in smut written for women), mainly because there was a third person he was asking for help, but the outcome was still the same. He gave in and enjoyed it.
There wouldn't be such a backlash to the complaints here if people complained about the actual problem they have instead of pretending to have some kind of moral problem with the rape trope (or wouldn't read femdom when they're not into femdom). The rape trope is usually met with a significantly warmer reception when it happens between two characters who are either in an exclusive relationship or when the rapist is obsessed or deeply in love with the victim (many readers hate cheating so much that any sexual interaction with another character results in hate, whether it's NTR or just someone not commiting to a relationship).
I know that every single genre has this annoying problem of people complaining about other things because they want to sound more objective but when you combine that with the fact that you have people here who aren't even into femdom and only want to see buff men having anal sex, you end up with this annoying shitshow of a topic section.

Or to make it short:
Writing something like "Oh wow, the latest chapter was too rapey for my taste. Begging Doeim for help was too much. What a bummer" usually means no backlash.
Writing something like "THIS IS RAPE! It's morally wrong! We shouldn't condone it and call out how toxic it is!" while simultaneously enjoying really rapey BL stories will cause a backlash because it comes across as preachy nonsense and most people who think about it will come to the conclusion that those complaints aren't based on genuin concerns. They just didn't like it and so they used the first argument they could think of.

We must be reading a different comic bro. Cause ejaculation does not equal enjoyment and the actual sexual act committed does matter, but we can agree to disagree on that.

My thing is where are the people complaining about the story attacking readers?
Saying “eww why are you guys reading this? You all are sick”?
Everyone is just sharing their opinion and it's mostly the people who aren't enjoying the story being attacked. Attacking every person, not just the 'moral high ground' preachy readers.
You said you've been through the comments?

In Painter of the night, the character has sex will nothing but willing partners for most of the chapters, so comparing the two comment sections doesn't make sense. Rape was only recently introduced in the story? And people weren't happy about it. Not to mention the story is much more complex and interesting. People normally have other things to discuss besides the sex every chapter release.
The comments here focus on the sex/rape because the story is hardly focused on anything else.

I'm not a fan of the 'they must not like femdom' excuse.
That's the reason? Because if they were into femdom, they would totally be into this story no matter what?
Discrediting possible practitioners or people who really like bdsm because they don't like this? That's being very disingenuous.

In stories that have characters, Coupled or nor, Love or not, If there is blatant rape, a screaming and unwilling uke, someone is always complaining about it in the comment section.
“That was rape.”
“I understand he loves him, but why did he do that”?
“The uke deserves better”
Or more complex responses.
As for S Flowers, a dry story is going to warrant dry responses.

You're correct about NTR and cheating being badly received. I'm okay with stories with cheating because I feel it's realistic and makes a story more interesting.
Sometimes I get annoyed reading anti-cheating comments, especially in Hentai cause men will have whole harems, but be upset when a female character cheats. But, the difference is I don't attack those people in the comment section.
Like, why? I can engage with people who see my POV on the story instead and everything is still there for me to enjoy.

You're not really replying to what I wrote though. I explained to you that it was straight out mentioned in the last chapter that he enjoyed it and that it's portrayed this way in the upcoming chapters as well. I've never said anything about ejaculating being equal with enjoyment.

"Everyone is just sharing their opinion and it's mostly the people who aren't enjoying the story being attacked. Attacking every person, not just the 'moral high ground' preachy readers."
People are being told to not read something they don't like. That's not attacking people anymore than preaching about how bad rape is.

"In Painter of the night, the character has sex will nothing but willing partners for most of the chapters, so comparing the two comment sections doesn't make sense. Rape was only recently introduced in the story?"

I know, I just told you this. It was part of the point I was making.

"And people weren't happy about it."
I just told you that significantly less people were upset about it than they were here. I even gave you numbers.

"Not to mention the story is much more complex and interesting."
The story is nothing and the characters are one-dimensional. This is exactly the point I was trying to make. You call it more complex when it couldn't be less of a story without being just sex scenes. You just like it more than this one hence why try to come up with a reason but Painter of the Night isn't just porn with plot as well.

"I'm not a fan of the 'they must not like femdom' excuse."
It's not an excuse when people admit it that this is the case. I told you this already.

"In stories that have characters, Coupled or nor, Love or not, If there is blatant rape, a screaming and unwilling uke, someone is always complaining about it in the comment section."
You're missing the point. It's not about having occasional complaints as you have in a yaoi topic section. It's that here it's a big problem, with half the topics being just about that but when it's yaoi the majority doesn't have a problem. And again, being preachy here while enjoying rape in yaoi will provoke a negative reaction because the complaints are just biased.

"But, the difference is I don't attack those people in the comment section."
Again, you have two completely different definitions for what attacking people means based on the opinion they're voicing. You yourself said "Like anyone with a moral compass would understand why some readers may be upset." implying that those who don't, don't have a moral compass which can be understood as an attack.
One anon used the username "Shut the fuck up" when telling people to stop telling her to stop reading.
I was personally attacked by an anon who dedicated an entire topic to me (I reported it and it's deleted now).
Again, you're being biased. I can admit that the actual attacks from the fans aren't nice but acting as if one side is nasty, attacking everyone who disagrees while the other is just innocently voicing their opinions just means that you're judging the people who don't agree with you more harshly than those who do.

*You just like it more than this one hence why try to come up with a reason *why* Painter of the Night isn't just porn with plot as well.

Some of what you wrote was confusing (maybe because of how it was bunched together idk) and most of it had absolutely nothing to do with my main points, so I responded to what was relevant.

Even if he does grow to enjoy the sex in upcoming chapters, it does not make the sex/rape in this chapter any less satisfying. Just because Yeeun said he liked it ? Still no.
That is why I mentioned ejaculation because besides that, where was there evidence that he was on board the whole time this was happening to him within the scene? I stand with the people complaining about this scene specifically. All the other sex stuff has been so-so

“People are being told to not read something they don't like. That's not attacking people anymore than preaching about how bad rape is.”

People are being told not to read it because of those who want to control the comment section and don't want to deal with coming across negative opinions on the story.
It is a form of attack.
Even the tone of the people responding are very offensive.
And I do not blame anybody for snapping to defend themselves when they are (personally) told to stop reading.
The single angry “Don't read” comments addressed to nobody in particular are far less annoying in comparison.

“I just told you that significantly less people were upset about it than they were here. I even gave you numbers.”

And in response to that I said there's more going on in POTN than just rape which is why I think people are talking about other things and not just the rape. While that is just my opinion, it still doesn't make the stories comparable in any way shape or form. We could speak numbers if the stories were more alike, but they're not.

“The story is nothing and the characters are one-dimensional. This is exactly the point I was trying to make. You call it more complex when it couldn't be less of a story without being just sex scenes. You just like it more than this one hence why try to come up with a reason but Painter of the Night isn't just porn with plot as well.”

When did I say POTN's plot could exist without sex? Just because I said POTN was more complex and interesting (my opinion yes) doesn't mean taking all the porn out of it wouldn't ruin or detract from the story.
The characters are kinda one-dimensional, but that doesn't mean the story is on par with S Flowers just because of that.
Clearly we have opposing views on this.

I like POTN more of course, and shared why I thought there were various discussions going on in the comment section of that story in relation to this one, but my point is the two stories aren't meant to be compared because of how different they are (mainly the execution). People can try to compare them all they want, but it doesn't make sense.

“It's not an excuse when people admit it that this is the case. I told you this already.”

Where are there tons of people in the comment section saying they don't like the story because of the bdsm aspect?
I see people complaining about execution, while people on the opposite end are saying “this is a bdsm comic, stop complaining” “This isn't bdsm 101” etc. They're implying that people who don't like it shouldn't complain and that the bdsm aspect is why they are complaining in the first place, when it's really just the rape and how Yeeun treats the characters (my observation is cold characters are generally not well liked anyways).

“You're missing the point. It's not about having occasional complaints as you have in a yaoi topic section. It's that here it's a big problem, with half the topics being just about that but when it's yaoi the majority doesn't have a problem. And again, being preachy here while enjoying rape in yaoi will provoke a negative reaction because the complaints are just biased.”

And your missing my original point. People should be able to comment what they want. I never said people weren't biased. I said people should be able to comment freely without being blasted in the comment section. Numbers or whatever don't detract from that point.

“Again, you have two completely different definitions for what attacking people means based on the opinion they're voicing. You yourself said implying that those who don't, don't have a moral compass which can be understood as an attack.
One anon used the username "Shut the fuck up" when telling people to stop telling her to stop reading.”

People replying to others and telling them to stop reading is an attempt to control a person who does not like the story. That is not the same as somebody voicing their opinion on the overall story.
One person is leaving their opinion,
another is telling them to stop.
They're quite literally opposite things.

"Like anyone with a moral compass would understand why some readers may be upset."

I stand by that. We all know what rape looks like and why it might disturb others. It's not a competition of morals, it's common sense. When a rape scene happens in a story generally I get the “maaan I know people aren't gonna like this” thought,
whether I enjoyed the scene or not. And you know why? Because we all know rape is wrong, so being mad at someone for being upset DOES show a lack of moral compass. Especially if the sex was different this time around.

“I was personally attacked by an anon who dedicated an entire topic to me (I reported it and it's deleted now).”

I'm sorry to hear that. I don't condone people attacking others, just discussing things if necessary.

“Again, you're being biased. I can admit that the actual attacks from the fans aren't nice but acting as if one side is nasty, attacking everyone who disagrees while the other is just innocently voicing their opinions just means that you're judging the people who don't agree with you more harshly than those who do.”

I've been pretty transparent that I don't like the direction the story is going in to, so I dont know why you would assume I'm not biased.
I never said I wasn't.
Nobody is immune to being biased.
My issue is and has always been people trying to push others out of the comment section. I never said one side was innocent, I explained why people should let others comment freely and gave my two cents on how I felt about the story, and later why I feel other titles could be treated differently.
We can go on and on about the intricacies and numbers, comparing this to Yaoi, but even if I have my own opinions on that and understand some of what you're trying to say, it doesn't detract from my stance on this issue.

People are not trying to control the comment section they are fed up with how annoying it is here. They just want to enjoy the story and talk about it with people who do as well but since the beginning there have been so many people here who just complain and do nothing else. When they have the right to complain then we have the right to tell them that it's enough already.
Everything you could possible complain about came up, doesn't matter how ridiculous the complaints were. Yes, there have always been people who admitted they aren't into BDSM or femdom specifically, some even pretended they were just to admit later that it was a lie. It just feels wrong to link those topics here (this topic section only has 33 pages, I think you can look that up yourself) since I'm talking negatively about it. But if that was all it wouldn't even be that big of a deal.
There were people complaining about rape since the beginning, complaining about how they don't like the MC, complaining about how unrealistic it is, calling it gay because when you like anal you're automatically gay, complaining about how this isn't proper BDSM and so on.
Imagine half the topic section in Painter of the Night being people who were looking for an historically accurate webtoon complaining about how inaccurate and unrealistic it is. Imagine they have been doing it for a year and then tell me again that those people who tell them to get out do it because they want to control the topic section and not because they've had enough of all the complaints that are completely pointless anyways.
You know very well that influences the enjoyment of a story when people are so eager to spread negativity in the discussion.
You also know very well that there isn't much femdom stuff out there so why are you and other people here are so eager to ruin the discussion for the rest of us? We're 45 chapters into the story. You had your time to complain now move on and let the rest of us enjoy it without constantly telling us how bad you think it is.
There is a comment section above the topic section in which you can rate and criticize the webtoon. If all you want is let the world know how much you dislike it then do it there. That's why it exists in the first place.