They both sucked at COMMUNICATION

The FL is totally valid, the hell? Shes always honest when shes upset, she puts her trust in him and always shows a willingness to love him even tho they didnt meet under normal circumstances. What can she do but get mad when he always phrases things in the cruelest way possible? The road to hell is paved in good intentions and all ML has is good intentions. He needs to learn how to talk properly. FL gives him space and patience. Of course she gets frustrated when all she receives back is doubt and an iron wall when shes putting her best foot forward. It sucks that ML is insecure and its totally valid but must FL quietly accept that she will just always be doubted, always have to read his mind? Shes not perfect but shes very real and imo shes an amazing wife. I love ML but most of their problems stem from him lol

That's why I said, They sucked at communication. They truly suck at it. No matter how much fl gives him space and patience or how honest she is, ML is the same as well. That's why they need to TALKED.

But thats not THEM, thats HIM. When she was upset, she said honestly that shes upset when he leaves without saying anything, shes upset he thinks shes shallow enough to think she would care about scars, shes upset that he left for much longer than he said with no word and she was going to tell him she was pregnant but HE chooses to act puzzled ab why shes mad, HE thinks the worst of her everytime and HE has all sorts of thoughts in his head just to say the worst possible thing. FL is someone with a stable attachment style dealing with a man with an anxious one, I dont see why she should be blamed at all.

And I don't see why the ML should be blamed as well. He is valid about his reasons, FL is also valid for her reasons. That's why I said Communicate!

They have different upbringing where the FL was loved and pampered and while reading the chapters, it seems like she is confident and smart to use it as an advantage despite her mother being a shitty one. While the ML, grew up with nothing but as a shadow who can't voice out his desires or wants so you wouldn't expect him to talk immediately or voice out what he wants. It's not easy to tell someone close to you all the secrets or your feelings when you have so many wounds at heart and in mind, his mother died at birth with unknown father (and now knowing he seems like he is the son of the Crown Prince). lol

And I know ML is rude and cruel by saying those things to the FL but he loves her, and he doesn't know how to express it. Like I SAID HE NEEDS TO TALK TO HER, OPEN UP TO HER WHEN HE IS READY. If her getting mad over him for being cruel because she doesn't get any good answers from him and it frustrates her despite her being a patient one, might as well divorce him since he is the problem. The ML can't express it like what you've said but If she can't handle how anxious he is, or insecure he is then he is not for her and vice versa.

I'm not blaming FL but she has flaws and ML has flaws. They were trying to work it out but if FL is demanding too much and ML doesn't talk then this relationship will not work.

THAT'S WHY I SAID THEY NEED TO TALK AND SETTLE THIS MATTER. COMMUNICATE! They are a lovely couple despite how hard to grasp all the misunderstanding shits going on in this manhwa.

You literally used the word annoying for FL bc she showed her frustration and dislike but used much nicer language for the ML and you claimed they both had a communication problem which they don't have. Like I said, FL is not perfect but shes not annoying for venting valid frustrations.

And I love them together and WE know the ML loves her too much to even articulate himself but thats dramatic irony for you. All FL sees is him giving her material and physical affection then speaking bluntly and pushing her away with his words, it doesnt help she believes he only wants her for her body.

I never said ML was invalid but he is a broken person who is bringing problems into their relationship. He's not wrong but between the two of them, he is at fault. She is not.

If she cant handle his anxiety, no they dont need to divorce bc obv the point of the webtoon is that he learns to communicate and process his feelings better but do you know whats necessary for him to know what hes done wrong? The FL to tell him. But apparently thats annoying and shes discouraging him from being honest with her??

She absolutely has fault wtf are you talking about? You're one of those people that think the ML is wrong in every story, every situation huh? You claim she's not perfect while simultaneously listing everything he is/has doing/done wrong but nothing she is/has. He is not the only person with communication issues lol.

"It sucks that ML is insecure and its totally valid but must FL quietly accept that she will just always be doubted, always have to read his mind?"

I mean for now, yeah? You're acting like they've been in a love marriage for years on end. This marriage is still in an infancy stage. And you're acting like he doesn't have to "read" her mind on a occasion as well?

A very easy example of her communication issues is she still hasn't told him she's pregnant (potentially). "she was going to tell him she was pregnant but HE chooses to act puzzled ab why shes mad" That is not a valid excuse wtf? He chooses to act puzzled or is he actually puzzled given the context of the story? To his understanding, she is taking a medicine/tea that is known to prevent pregnancy so why the fuck would he even expect she's pregnant? And it doesn't matter if he even acted puzzled, her not making that known is a communication issue. Stop glancing over her issues and actually address them.

The tea/medicine situation is an example of his communication problems. He should've confronted her about it, not keep it lodged in his head and say nothing but act based on that information. That's not fair to her.

Also she does indeed get mad over little things like the previous person who commented made apparent. She absolutely does not give him space and patience on a consistent basis. When a situation arises where he needs both of those things, she gets angry and he ends up having to apologize later on, that is not space nor patience. His problem is he does not let it be known how he is feeling or what made him feel a certain way but there is a valid excuse for him on this issue. He has had no one to trust from birth to adulthood (besides that lady who just passed and he barely trusted her), now he's in a marriage that did not start out as a love-love situation. Why would his character trust her completely already? I know why we as the readers trust her but it would make 0 sense for his character to trust her. I also want to say he needs to stop leaving her for days/weeks without saying anything but I do understand that is how some people need to exit a situation before they make it worse. Still should tell her he's leaving though.

Let's not forget she is quite literally using him. She said he's someone with nothing to lose nor project which is why she was sure he would never reject her. She was the one in a shit situation, not him. I'm pretty sure even she mentioned it herself in the earlier chapters but she used his past affection (longing eyes) for her. She came to him with the intention of using this to get what she wanted. Does she feel differently about him now? Absolutely. But it did not start that way. Let's stop acting as if she's Mrs. Perfect/Innocent.

He is a closed off person by nature. That requires an extra patience or more inquiry on her part. She knew this beforehand.

Stop invalidating his life before her, it clearly plays a huge part on how his character acts. Stop acting as if she is not also creating problems in the relationship. They both are.

Sorry, but Kynel is the one bringing most of the communication problems in this relationships. The fact that he had a difficult upbringing is a separate issue. The reality is that he’s the one who stews silently, who assumes the worst without even trying to verify, who makes assumptions and runs with them, and doesn’t tell his wife what he’s thinking, feeling, or doing. It’s Tia who mounts in the effort to talk with him, to let her feelings/thought be known to him, to resolve misunderstandings, and to make sure they actually have conversations.
Both people need to put in effort for a relationship to function. It doesn’t matter that he’s a “closed off person by nature”, Tia cannot be expected to carry every emotional aspect of their relationship. She knows that he is reserved, but there are only so many accommodations one can make. He speaks about important matters in blunt and hurtful ways without addressing why he’s upset, and she’s just supposed to be fine with that?
Last time they met, he basically told her it didn’t matter what she felt because in the end she would always be his property as his wife. Then he left for a week without telling her where he would be, how long he would take, or what he was doing. Then he immediately yells at her just for taking a walk in the rain. I get that he just didn’t want her to get sick, but it wasn’t phrased that way. He talked like she was under lock and key, that the servants had the authority to hold her there, rather than her naturally having the highest authority when he’s away.
After that he made some very hurtful comments about children. After saying, “we don’t need to have children”, he followed up with “there are other ways”, which most obviously implies adopting a child or him having a kid with another woman. That’s just the most obvious interpretation. This is a world/society where marriage equals kids, it’s just expected. It’s like a slap in the face for him to be so cavalier about telling her something like that.
Even though he knows about the contraceptive tea, he chose to hide it from her, while basically taking it out on her emotionally. She has no idea why he’s so agitated, so how is she supposed to remedy it? She doesn’t even know her mother and trusted maid were drugging her against her will. Tia always lays her issues on the table and let’s Kynel know where she’s at, why she’s upset, and what she feels is necessary to remedy the situation. She also usually gives him more than one chance to explain himself and really puts a lot of effort into reassuring him emotionally and in her duties as his wife.

OMG THANK YOU. I can't with these ML apologists, they can do literally anythinggg and they get excuses made for them but FL doesn't deliver her reasonable response in a way thats palatable to them? ANNOYING AND WRONG. Tia is doing ALL the heavy lifting here.

I assign fault where I see it, I dont care whether they're the ML or the FL. I'm actually very picky with FLs bc what makes a FL annoying is letting the ML do whatever and not say shit about it.

You're accusing me of having some FL bias and I literally wish I did, atleast that would go a small way in balancing out the insane amount of leeway we give MLs. I find myself engaging in unconscious misogyny just like I see in comment sections all the time but I actually try to reason it out instead of making 10000 excuses for a ML's toxic behaviour.

We are way too used to seeing a FL pander to a ML and be the special lady who fixes all his problems. This story is doing a great job of showing that Tia is a person too and she has standards and is entitled to having them. She doesn't need to minimize herself because her man has bigger problems.

Y'all seem to approach this as Tia having a "good" upbringing therefore she has no excuse but he has a bad one so he gets all of the excuses. My only criteria is this: did Tia cause any of that misery? Is she responsible for it? No. Then is she forcing him to love her? Also no. Then in what world is she required to quietly and meekly accept this behaviour? HE wants her. She isnt forcing him to want her. So he needs to put his big boy pants on and earn it.

She started off using him but despite that she is putting her best foot forward to love and understand him but she fails to understand him bc he never explains his thoughts or feelings. She is trying to make what is essentially a deal something legitimate and she was trying even before she knew she loved him.

Also she shows A LOT of patience and space. Notice that everytime they have a disagreement ML takes off for weeks at a time? And yet still she waits and doesn't think negatively of him, gives him a chance to come to terms with the issue. Its not like shes playing mind games. She flat out says "This bothers me." Which is literally IDEAL especially in a new relationship. And you ask me not to invalidate ML's past (which I never did but I just dont allow that to mean he can treat FL however he wants with that as justification) but you invalidate her feelings and her perspective. Those things that seem insignificant to you are important to her. We need to stop tone policing FLs.

THISSSS EXACTLY! Thankssss!

CALLING US ML APOLOGIST WHEN THE OTHER COMMENTERS BEING A FML APOLOGIST. LOL


Seeing only one side is not that it. Both are at fault but it doesn't mean that the FML is innocent. Both need to TALKED AND Lay down the issues at hand than seeing one side story just because the female lead is quiet confident about her being honest all the way. Some people are just quite quick about invalidating someone. I wish the male lead is cruel, a cheater or the worst ML out there but he is not. Just like the FML i hope people accept that this FML is not innocent and Ms. Perfect just like ML who is not Mr. Perfect. They just need to communicate and talked.

They have so many things to workout and this is something need to be address, just like how they addressed the issues towards the ML.

╮(￣▽￣)╭

You said you were not invalidating him but

"I never said ML was invalid but he is a broken person who is bringing problems into their relationship. He's not wrong but between the two of them, he is at fault. She is not."

You are invalidating him. You said "He is a broken person who is bringing problems into their relationship." Its not his choice to be a broken person who has so many wounds throughout his life. is it his fault that her mother died? or how his grandfather not treating him as legitimate grandchild? with unknown father (looks like the crown prince). Throughout his life he is not allowed to express his desires and wants, always in the shadows until he grows up and you telling me, you are not invalidating him. You contradict yourself. No one treats him right aside from his nanny like wth....

Growing up with that kind of environment seems awful and you cannot expect someone to trust people easily. He literally feels like he was abandoned since he was a child.... and yet... ╮(￣▽￣)╭ Just because he married her and not started as love relationship, he can easily says this and that.... He loves her, Yes. He needs to speak up in a manner where he can express it to her. Shouting at him or venting her frustrations when she doesn't get any good answers from him but barely saying anything as well, will that literally solve anything? lmao good luck with that. Oh i forgot its possible in this manhwa.

As the previous commenter said, they didn't start with love relationship. nor he knows her immediately to trust her fully. Like I said before it takes time. Saying I'm dramatic lol... like you only protecting the FML and thinking she is innocent laying down all her worries in front of the ML and ML basically throws those hurtful words is just bias. Yeah like I also said the ML needs to TALK TO HER and open up whatever he feels and not dilly dallying and leads to these misunderstandings. And I was hoping as well he talks to her. You literally says he is at fault but how about the FML... lol

Like I also said, ML might be cruel and FL being annoying is true for me. That's how I feel as a reader at some point in this story but I was hoping that there is a quite big character development on both MC. I also wish for them to resolve whatever their issues are. For me both are at fault. Both have communication issues. if you think the ML is at fault its on you. I respect that but for me Both.

we have different interpretations on how to understand those main characters, how deep it is but let's not be bias or seeing one side of the story, its just my opinion only. (=・ω・=)

FL has problems, shes a bit snobby, shes self righteous, shes too concerned with nobility and I find her calling it a battlefield infront of literal war hero cringe but the one thing you can't say ab the FL is that shes contributing to miscommunication and thats been my point this whole time, at least for this one issue, only ML is contributing to that bc if theres one thing Tia is, its straight forward. I love her and ML but thats bc I know everything they think and feel but if I was Tia, I'd find him so confusing and frustrating. She has flaws just like ML has positives (hes very devoted and clearly has a pure heart) but if we're just talking about this one issue (miscommunication) then thats his thing to own and its a very VERY big problem in a relationship as precarious as theirs, probably the most glaring one they have.

I was under the impression we were talking about miscommunication, not every issue they have. Whether you agree with Tia or not, shes clear about what she likes and what she doesn't like. She has never hidden her feelings from him. I know WHY ML is the way he is but FL doesnt deserve to suffer bc he was dealt a shit hand in life. I have sm empathy for him and his backstory but when you enter a relationship, you can either sort your baggage or you can deal with the inevitable angst we're about to see THEN sort your baggage. Btw someone being at fault doesnt mean they are invalid or horrible or a bad person, it means in this instance they are the CAUSE. Just like if you ding someone's car, you didnt mean to but you're at fault and its your responsibility. Its not up to the other car owner to cater to you and fix the damage for you.

Anyways its been fun discussing this and helped me pass the time at work these past few days o7

Trauma is an explanation, not an excuse. Trauma causes many adverse behaviors, mentalities, and actions, but that doesn’t mean that someone just gets a blank check to act however they want with no judgement or expectations. Trauma responses are always valid, but that doesn’t mean that the people around them are just supposed to put up with everything and roll over for every single unreasonable demand or treatment.
Tia HAS been mindful of Kynel’s trauma and how their relationship began. She has tried to get to know him, support him, and make it known that she intends to be loyal to him even before the real romance started to kick off. She knows he has a difficult past and makes consistent efforts to get to know him better. She also tries to clear the air whenever there is a disagreement. She wants to be considerate of his feelings and concerns, but he’s the one who refuses to give her anything to work with.
Would Tia’s “annoying” responses be considered reasonable if she had the same degree of trauma as Kynel? The fact that one partner in a relationship has trauma doesn’t mean that they get to dictate everything or that the entire relationship revolves around not triggering their trauma responses. He still needs to put effort into the relationship and work on himself.
Tia can’t be expected to endure poor communication, cruel/callous words, and a lack of respect without having any upset reactions. All of her irritation at Kynel has been in response to something he did or said that was hurtful or disrespectful, and even when she’s angry, she tries to work it out on the spot.
Even she was as considerate, patient, and passive as you want her to be, that wouldn’t actually fix the relationship, but make it even worse. Kynel does not communicate unless it’s dragged out of him, so if he had a passive wife, all that would happen is that their misunderstandings, distance, and resentment would get even worse.
If we split up the responsibility for their relationship issues, Tia would be at 15%. She’s a straight shooter who communicates immediately and just wants the basics out of this relationship. All of her goals revolve around really essential stuff: 1. ensuring mutual respect, 2. communicating feelings/conflicts, 3. supporting each other, 4. not being hurtful towards each other, and 5.just knowing where your spouse is.
If we go down this list:
1. Tia has made efforts to uplift and support Kynel. She helped catch the people scamming him and tried to be responsible with the gifts/money he gave herEvery issue regarding her looking down on him has really just been Kynel assuming things. Kynel has done and said very disrespectful things to her which degraded her status as his partner and made her seem like a possession.
2. Tia tells Kynel what she’s feeling, why she’s upset, and what she needs from him as soon as she knows, then tries to work it out. She is literally being as straight a shooter as humanly possible. Kynel doesn’t say what he’s thinking or feeling, then stews in his feelings before eventually lashing out.
3. Tia tries to be there for him emotionally, but how is she supposed to be his support if he refuses to level with her? Tia is also trying to help him elevate his social status so he won’t be shamed and degraded anymore. This does benefit her as well, but it is one of his more significant problems. Kynel has been physically supportive of her, giving her nice things and standing up to her with others, but he is somewhat absent within their relationship.
4. Tia does her best to avoid sensitive topics, never brings up his trauma in arguments, and tries to be considerate of his feelings (it’s a low bar, but here we are). Kynel says many ambiguous or hurtful things in very blunt and cruel ways without thinking about how it will make her feel.
5. Letting your spouse/partner know (generally) where you are and what you’re doing is relationship 101. Every time there is an issue, he just bolts with no warning or explanation. There is no scenario where voluntarily leaving home for a week with no notice or explanation (especially after a fight) is going to be received well.

Again, Kynel does these things largely because of his trauma, but it’s ridiculous to expect Tia to single handedly carry the relationship with so little contribution from him. It’s even more ridiculous to do it while maintaining a pleasant tone of voice with zero irritation. Nobody would be expected to magically get over all their issues and become the perfect partner overnight, but the biggest issue is that he’s not even trying to improve himself even when Tia tells him what she’s struggling with and how she thinks they can try to fix it.

I mean did you even read what I said in its entirety or did you skim over it? I already acknowledged the faults you pointed out for the ML in my reply. Problem is the FML's faults are neither recognized or addressed. You don't have to point out the ML's faults to me, I am quite aware of them. I do

- "Both people need to put in effort for a relationship to function. It doesn’t matter that he’s a “closed off person by nature""

Not once did I say he should not put forth effort into the relationship for it to function. However I did say his upbringing plays a part into how he thinks and responds to certain situations. Like I said their marriage is still in the infancy stage, you don't fix 15+ years of trauma overnight like both of you seem to want. This isn't a speedrun challenge.

- "He talked like she was under lock and key, that the servants had the authority to hold her there, rather than her naturally having the highest authority when he’s away."

????.

Definitely did not come across like the servants had the authority to hold her there. Guards should've been accompanying her if she's leaving the premises, quite a simple concept. She has absolutely zero combat training and she grew up pampered, no way do you have someone that high profile by themselves.

- After that he made some very hurtful comments about children. After saying, “we don’t need to have children”, he followed up with “there are other ways”, which most obviously implies adopting a child or him having a kid with another woman. That’s just the most obvious interpretation. This is a world/society where marriage equals kids, it’s just expected. It’s like a slap in the face for him to be so cavalier about telling her something like that.

Which was said because...? He thinks she is taking a contraceptive to avoid having children with him. Although he was wrong on how handled the information, him saying we don't need to have children and "there are other ways" was obviously his attempt at appeasing her / reaching a middle ground based on what he thinks he knows. It's also a slap in the face for him to find out his wife is taking contraceptives without speaking to him about it.

- Even though he knows about the contraceptive tea, he chose to hide it from her, while basically taking it out on her emotionally. She has no idea why he’s so agitated, so how is she supposed to remedy it? She doesn’t even know her mother and trusted maid were drugging her against her will.

Quite literally addressed this already. "The tea/medicine situation is an example of his communication problems. He should've confronted her about it, not keep it lodged in his head and say nothing but act based on that information. That's not fair to her." say nothing but act based on that information is a very deliberate part of that statement. I didn't put it in there to just yap.

"Tia always lays her issues on the table and let’s Kynel know where she’s at, why she’s upset, and what she feels is necessary to remedy the situation."

She definitely does not always, a very strong word, do any of this however she does communicate these problems more than the ML does, that I agree on. She was also raised by a strong parental figure no matter how we many dislike her. Hence the upbringing argument once again. It absolutely matters and plays a huge factor, it can't just be dismissed as a separate because you think its an excuse. It isn't a separate issue. It has a direct affect on his current thought process, actions and reactions to situations that arise.

Once again so this doesn't get skimmed over either. The ML is not without fault at all. I have never said or implied anything of the sort. However, the FML is with fault aswell.

" assign fault where I see it, I dont care whether they're the ML or the FL. I'm actually very picky with FLs bc what makes a FL annoying is letting the ML do whatever and not say shit about it.

You're accusing me of having some FL bias and I literally wish I did, atleast that would go a small way in balancing out the insane amount of leeway we give MLs. I find myself engaging in unconscious misogyny just like I see in comment sections all the time but I actually try to reason it out instead of making 10000 excuses for a ML's toxic behaviour."

I mean this statement alone already shows your bias. You definitely do care, no matter how you state the opposite. You didn't try to reason it out when you made your comment. You invalidated everything he went through in life and just looked through the lenses of the FL lol.

"We are way too used to seeing a FL pander to a ML and be the special lady who fixes all his problems."

This is irrelevant, we aren't speaking about mine or your past experiences with other manga/manhwa/manhua, we're talking about this one. The opposite of what you said is quite common as well. It has no relevancy to this story though.

"This story is doing a great job of showing that Tia is a person too and she has standards and is entitled to having them. She doesn't need to minimize herself because her man has bigger problems."

It absolutely does and she definitely is entitled to having them. She isn't perfect, neither is her husband. Which is simply what I have been pointing out. Never said nor implied the latter but ok.

"Y'all seem to approach this as Tia having a "good" upbringing therefore she has no excuse but he has a bad one so he gets all of the excuses.

Never went with whatever approach you're speaking on. Never said she has no excuse nor implied it at all. However he does have "excuses" which have validity as well.

"My only criteria is this: did Tia cause any of that misery? Is she responsible for it? No. Then is she forcing him to love her? Also no. Then in what world is she required to quietly and meekly accept this behaviour? "

? I mean what are you talking about? "quietly and meekly accept this behaviour?" When did I say anything even remotely close to this?

"HE wants her. She isnt forcing him to want her. So he needs to put his big boy pants on and earn it."

If we're using this poor mindset he already earned it then. He took care of her when she was essentially homeless. (Read the first sentence again before you say something disingenuous.)

"She started off using him but despite that she is putting her best foot forward to love and understand him but she fails to understand him bc he never explains his thoughts or feelings. She is trying to make what is essentially a deal something legitimate and she was trying even before she knew she loved him."

So no reprimand for her using her knowledge of his feelings for her and taking advantage of it? This is my problem lol. I acknowledge quite a bit of the MC's faults, if you read my entire comment you've seen me call out where he fucked up and what he should've done in a few examples (could do quite a bit of these but it's pointless). But seeing as you didn't even acknowledge what she did is a terrible thing to do to someone, I don't think you're able to do the same. You skimmed over it like it didn't matter at all.

"And you ask me not to invalidate ML's past (which I never did but I just dont allow that to mean he can treat FL however he wants with that as justification) but you invalidate her feelings and her perspective. Those things that seem insignificant to you are important to her. We need to stop tone policing FLs."

You invalidated it before and are doing it now. No one said it should allow him to treat the FML however he wants. It was used to show a reason as to why he may act a certain way compared to the FML. You're either delusional or just lying for argumentative purposes if you read what I said and can still say I invalidated her feelings and her perspective. A joke honestly.

I mean if i'm "tone policing" the ML's, i'm absolutely going to do it to the FML's because they are not always in the right either.

:)

You basically just agreed with all of my points without actually holding ml accountable for any of his part of it because of his trauma. You’re tone policing Tia to a ridiculous degree for responses that are far more calm, “reasonable”, and patient than how an average person would have responded to those situations.
While there may be trauma, Kynel’s responses are more cold, avoidant, and disrespectful than the average. Whether you accept it or not, you are holding Tia to a much higher standard even though she is not the one who causes most of their issues and is the only one who actively tries to solve them and communicate with her partner. It’s unfortunate, but a pretty common mentality.

The entirety of this response is a fallacy. I doubt you even believe it to be true. Delusion, however we live and we learn.