I like your ob. Honestly the incestuous kiss did not even surprising because it's just another display of control. I find the empress pretty self centered and narcissist only takes Etienne's well being into account when it befits her. She never ask what is on his mind or his opinion. Every scene she appears with Etienne alone it's about moving her plan forward or making sure he stays in fear of everyone but her. I like to think she only acts her true unfilter self around him. It's not uncommon for narcissist parents to do some weird incestuous crap as a form of abuse to their child because they only see them as an extension of themselves.
(edit) I like your observation on the empress. Honestly the incestuous kiss did not even surprising because it's just another display of control. I find the empress pretty self centered and narcissist only takes Etienne's well being into account when it befits her. She never ask what is on his mind or his opinion. Every scene she appears with Etienne alone it's about moving her plan forward or making sure he stays in fear of everyone but her. I like to think she only acts her true unfilter self around him. It's not uncommon for narcissist parents to do some weird incestuous crap as a form of abuse to their child because they only see them as an extension of themselves.
Homie, you are completely missing the mark by over-analyzing her character.
Firstly, she didn't kiss Etienne; she was force feeding him a drug. Doing it mouth to mouth is symbolic and is kind of a callback to old plays where sometimes characters would kiss their enemies or lessers as a show of dominance. It isn't sexual at all. The queen doesn't want to bang Etienne, she wants utter control over him so she can manipulate him when he comes into power. She's purposely breaking him down mentally and physically for this endgame.
Second, she doesn't love Etienne as her own child; she loves the possible future she will gain through him. She's using him as a means for power and to get back at the husband that spurned her. Her lavishing Etienne in gifts and her pretend displays of concern is a common tactic among manipulators and abusers 'cause they think their victims are too stupid to see through the charades. ((I should know since I'm a prime example as one of these victims.)) Her only concern for Etienne is him possibly dying thus leading to her losing out on power or someone finding out he's an Omega 'cause then he'll never be able to rule if he isn't persecuted for lying.
Lastly, yes Etienne's father is a shit stain, but let's not forget that he was not only forced to marry the queen but also raped by her. He's a victim of her as well, and his hands-off approach with Etienne is due to his trauma and also his belief that the queen wouldn't be that fucked up towards her own child. He's misguided and traumatized. I'm not excusing his actions, but putting him on the same level as the queen is a lil much. He barely scratches the surface whereas she's 20 leagues under the sea by now for her crimes.
Wrapping this up with this; she doesn't love Etienne. She doesn't care for his health so long as he's able to breathe and speak her plans into existence. She can't even be considered a mother outside of the fact that she birthed him from her own vaginal canal. She doesn't feel sexual lust towards Etienne. Every single one of her actions are self-serving and the only person she cares for is herself. Villains can be villains without having some super tragic backstory to make the reader relate to them to a certain degree. You can't even feel sad for her over the king not wanting her 'cause he was forced to be with a dominant Omega from her family. He loved someone else and she got mad enough over it to rape him and use his own son against him.
She's evil and that's that.
heavy on the emperor thing i hate him so much and i would hate to see him forgiven or given any kind of pass
Hate to say it, but if it was the emperor that raped and forced the empress to conceive, there would not be any leniency. Everyone would be shocked and outraged. It’s only because she’s a lady here, that everyone’s willing to suck up to her. The emperor didn’t even want MC, he was forced to give his sperm. Saying he’s the catalyst is sick, when in reality the empress is foul and conceived MC for her sick plans. And I’m saying this as a woman myself. She is evil and that’s that, thank you.
I didn't say he was the catalyst but that the queen is using him not loving her as a means for her wicked actions. She was already evil to begin with given the family she comes from and how they have acted in the past.
If you actually read what I said I mention that the king isn't even fully at fault for his actions TOWARDS ETIENNE 'cause he is a victim of the queen as well. She raped him. She's killed the people around him, whether friends or family, to make sure he wouldn't have any support from people in power. She's using his own flesh and blood against him all while abusing the child.
She's an unsympathetic villain to her core. You can't even feel bad for the one minor thing that was done to her 'cause everything she's done to harm those around her far eclipses her unrequited love for the king-- if you can even call it love.
I don't pity her and I don't think people should be trying to humanize her when the whole point of her character is to BE EVIL. Idfk why you're trying to make it seem like I was making excuses for her when my whole rant was pointing out how she is EVIL and SHOULDN'T BE SYMPATHIZED with.
Are you @Kunty?
I don’t remember replying to @Thistle, nor do I remember a @Thistle saying that he’s a catalyst of all this. It was Kunty who said it, so that’s who I’m responding to about.
And if you look at OP (Kunty)‘s post: “actually the catalist of the whole story”
You did @ me lol I changed my nickname on here recently from lostikins to Thistle.
I think you meant to reply to the thread and instead hit reply to me which is why I got the notification.
My bad for jumping the gun and thinking you were not understanding what I said in my initial post lol
You also used a direct line from my own reply which made me think you were trying to be snarky with me when I was the only person replying that stated the queen was just straight up evil and irredeemable lol
Can't blame me for thinking you were trying to start shit with me when you directly replied to me AND used something I had said in my initial reply.
Yeah no problem. If I was replying to you, I’d agree with you, which is also why I said that if it wasn’t a male victim, the replies would be less lenient on the male rapist.
I just don’t see how you thought I was trying to start shit with you. I reread my comment, meant to be for OP and I did quote one of your lines which I meant in another reply to your response for the OG post.
You said: I didn't say he was the catalyst.
And I never said that you said it.
You said: Idfk why you're trying to make it seem like I was making excuses for her when my whole rant was pointing out how she is EVIL and SHOULDN'T BE SYMPATHIZED with.
I said: “Hate to say it, but if it was the emperor that raped and forced the empress to conceive, there would not be any leniency. Everyone would be shocked and outraged. It’s only because she’s a lady here, that everyone’s willing to suck up to her. The emperor didn’t even want MC, he was forced to give his sperm. Saying he’s the catalyst is sick, when in reality the empress is foul and conceived MC for her sick plans. And I’m saying this as a woman myself. She is evil and that’s that, thank you.”
—I don’t mean to argue. I just don’t see how it seems like I’m starting shit with you? I even said that it’s just because she’s a lady that everyone’s having leniency on her, in no way did I say that the empress is amazing or that you were making excuses. I also said, “Hate to say it” because I don’t wanna be that person who pulls the sex card blame. I even said that the emperor was forced to give sperm, aligning with yours about him being raped. I think you just saw it and took it the wrong way, sorry for any misunderstandings.
I guess this part was what made you take it the wrong way + wrong reply: Saying he’s the catalyst is sick, when in reality the empress is foul and conceived MC for her sick plans.
Ngl I'm used to people jumping me in the comments even if they are agreeing with me lol
Either that or they'll start talking shit in my replies only to later on realize what I was actually saying and walking back their previous arguments. It happens often enough that I have a sorta knee-jerk reaction if I sense a whiff of sarcasm from someone's reply lol there's that and I tend to type up 10 page college essays as replies/topics so a lot of the time people skip something or forget something I mentioned so I end up having to re-point out what I had said.
I was a lil too heated in my reply to you initially 'cause I thought you had misunderstood something I had said, but I was honestly just trying to point out that I had in fact said she was irredeemable and not meant to be sympathized with lol sorry about that.
That’s fine lmao. That’s weird, jumping you while agreeing with you…probably trolls?? Lmaoo that’s weird person.
And yeah, no problem. Sorry for any misunderstandings, I blame my wrong direction of reply. And as for the quote, I should’ve said it like this: I agree with @Thistle, she’s evil and that’s that.
It’s how people word it. I get why you’d be confused then, and with your experience of people jumping you while agreeing lol.
is there really such things as over-analyzing art (when it's not a stretch) ? yeah, it's made to entertain but still to also discuss and especially on a story, it's rare that an important character is superficial and can only get resumed by "evil" (well if it is, it's probably a bad story)
now looking back at it, yeah, some of the things i said might be -border- but, pretty much (i should really read back everything i said ) about the empress, as in her character and persona is still plausible to me.
yes, she's OBVIOUSLY evil, i'm pretty sure i stated that many times, but was she really born wicked or was it thrust upon her (i had to quote ) ? the whole rape thing is BAD, and her actions definitely too. as i'm studying psyhology, i still find her character very interesting to center my interest around.
i'm sorry, but i still stand on MY GROUND, she do loves Etienne. it's just that you have attached to love the idea of something that is necessarily good and pure and unconditional and all those typa stuff. a whole point of my mini essay is to explain that yeah, she DOES love her child, but WRONG. especially in the latest chapter (i've read at that time, idk how she has been portrayed since last time i read and commented), we definitely see she still has affection for him, and not everything she does is purely manipulation (well, most of it is..). infact, i feel like she loves etienne as much she would love her child if they were to be an alpha/beta, that's just how she operates. as much as you refuse to it, she could be a LOT worse with him than she is acting.. idk how to really explain it, but definitely by saying some of her actions she definitely carries him in his heart, and she isn't blunt and unfazed by etienne and the emotions ? the perfect example of it is her saying she didn't stop Etienne from secretly meeting with Rishar as a child because it did warm her heart to see him express some type of happiness. i'll just conclude by saying that yeah, that bitch is evil, but why and how can she change when she has never been taught another way to be, and her ways always end up working for her ?
about the emperor, i still don't like him and it has to do with his HORRID personnality, honestly i don't know if it's how poorly he is written or his personality because i just can't see ANYTHING good about him. he is just as much self-centered as the empress, it's just he isn't as cruel physically as her. he basically treated no character with real affection other than his deceased lover, and i lowkey like (as in interest) the duality of him only caring about rishar because he sees him as an extension of his lover while the empress sees etienne as an extension of her own self. concretly, yeah he is not as bad as the empress because.. he simply doesn't do ANYTHING . i actually wonder if he actually runs the empire and how it's not falling if he is actually in the lead.. but yeah, as a character, and his "psyche" he is as bad as the empress and i fear i probably won't change my
omg i pressed send before i was done. i wanted to add things and edit the last part but anyway that's too bad
It's all good and I'm sorry for getting all riled up LOL
I've actually been cracking jokes about how the Empress and Chae-hee ((from Ghost's Nocturne)) are having a competition to see who can be the most insufferable, evil cunt in a bl series. Neither of them are meant to be sympathetic villains and honestly I'm here for it. I want them to lose, ofc, but I like having someone be evil and unapologetic about it lol
omg i'm so pissed off, i thought author for the 2nd season understood the importance of having a villain with duality that isn't purely evil ESPECIALLY in her case where she has been formated a whole life to be the empress (but guess what, it has been stolen by a selfish man who didn't even try to communicate and just abandoned her because he was "scared" of standing on his ground).
and it started good, letting us know she CAN be a good mother (like any toxic parent who switches between a loving persona and a ~cruel one) and, if we are being for real, the things she is warning etienne of, are 100% TRUE. the 1st season really tried to paint her as if she was this overthinking overcontrolling psychotic bitch that didn't love her child but only the potential title he could bring, AS IF they haven't been living basically as a duo for most of etienne's life ! she is bound to, at some point, be genuinely attached to him even if things didn't start well (which is once again due to her whole education where she has basically been brainwashed to serve her husband the emperor and assure the royal descendants). that's why, as a CHARACTER (and not as a person) she is my favorite because she really is the only one with depth and we can see she was really carefully thought. i really liked the start of the bedroom scene where she spoke to etienne switching from affection to wickedness and showing how her actions can be overnecessary and explaining WHY she actually is overcontrolling, and almost in a sense apologizing inconsciously to Etienne for that shit. Yes, she do loves him because it's her child, but she loves him wrong and i find that very interesting, and i hope it gets developed later in the story.
now author had to turn her incestuous out of nowhere. idk what's fun in that because it brings NOTHING to the story ?? i also hate how they are trying to make the emperor seem like a genuine person that etienne is bound to forgive at some point as if he wasn't as shitty as the mom and actually the catalist of the whole story !