the commenters are actually terrifying me. literally the reason why victims still get blam...

He groomed a minor and took advantage of him knowing he was on the brink of killing himself.

This is so much more than "maybe she shouldn't have worn the skirt" you fucking egg.

brother first of all, no need for the passive aggression. this can be made into a civil discussion without needing to have insults thrown around. second of all, i’m not saying mc is a good or bad person. that’s not the point. no victim is perfect, but a victim is still a victim. mc did not deserve to be raped nor is it his fault that he got raped.

Mc never had sex or used him physically in the flashbacks(aside from the kissing scene, and he only kissed ml so he didn’t have to have sex with that guy in their house). I’m not saying that he didn’t groom him, but mc definitely didn’t intend for ml to come and rape him and kidnap him. I definitely think mc took advantage of him mentally, but also mc and him did not see each other for years and met up again years later, where ML had time to wisen up and change his beliefs and ideologies AND STILL decided to kidnap and rape mc. Where in any of the flashbacks did MC try to make it seem like that was okay to do? in fact he gets angry with him in the flashback when ml tried to have sex with him in the bed. even if he did take ml to a bad mental space, it was at the end of the day ml’s decisions that completely made everything that mc did look far more appealing.

im not saying mc is a good person. im just saying that yall be tryna make ml look like a saint when he is definitely worse.

Your entire argument is moot 'cause you called people pointing out that Raymon groomed and abused a minor "rape apologists."

No one is saying Winter is entirely free of guilt. We're saying that he was a victim of childhood abuse via being beaten by his father, watching his father beat his mother, having his father murder his mother then commit suicide and Raymon took advantage of him to make himself feel better about his shitty situation.

Hurt people hurt people, but what Raymon did and exposed Winter-- who was a very mentally unstable and abused minor--to is just as unforgivable.

You boiling the people pointing this out down to "rape apologists" is why I was passive aggressive. You literally fucking started it lol

i did not utter the words rape apologists i was making a general statement, and not pointing to a single user in particular. i don’t like what some people we’re saying, so i made my own comment speaking out about it. i didn’t make it in any way passive aggressive i just said “it was terrifying me”, which is dramatic, yes, but harmful to anybody, no. we can argue the semantics but if u chose to be offended by it then u have the right to, but at least voice it nicer.

I’m not toning down what Raymon did, he did do unforgivable things, like exposing him to things he shouldn’t see is terrible. Especially because of the fact that Winter is a vulnerable minor. But I still think that Winter is the guiltier party. He IS the one who kidnapped and raped him repeatedly and left him for days in isolation.

We can look at things in a different way. The story is supposed to poke at ethical nuances like this. But the reason why I made my initial statement was because I was bothered at how people kept saying “he deserved this” or “he had it coming” or “you reap what you sow” that’s NOT how things work or should be the way in handing justice. But i’m not going to attack every single person who says that, because this is a fictional story and we’re viewing it in a fake lens, so obviously that layer of separation is going to make people see it in a more apathetic way. However, it made me concerned over how some people would view it in a real life perspective. Which is why i’m going to hammer in that I just made my own comment and not a direct response to anybody. I did not start anything, you chose to take it that way.