ClosetYaoiFan's Topics (16)

I hope you hit the mark this would be a wholesome scenario

I’m excited I hope so too

SPEAK ON IT !!!!!!

louder pleaseee!!!!!!!!! ヾ(☆▽☆)

So you telling me.... there's a chance we might see the aphrodisiac get working on jjk as he get strapped down on a table and get raped just to see how Dan felt and get a taste of his own med? I don't wish rape on anyone but I still wanna beat jjk ass lolol

Babe. Dan consented when he agreed to get paid 15k a month (10k more then offered at Dans request) do readers just forget that?? He gave consent.

THANK YOU

I will cause I’m so tired of readers hating on this story since season one I’m reading these comments like this must be a new wave of readers… JK is not THAT bad compared to a LOT of other tops in other stories. Did we all just forget that Dan agreed in s1 to all of this IS BEING PAID to be Fed whenever and wherever JK wants cause he’s being paid 15k a month (10k more then org. offered at Dans request?) dans has this man wrapped around his fingers since chap 1. Stop playing with me people.

Of course love Happy Jinx Day

Coercion is not consent.

Cohesion? Babe go back and re read. Dan went over saw what was going on JK explained what’s was gunna happen Dan agreed and even LIED and told JK he had been with a man before so he was rough with him ( too rough) then was offered a job and Dan asked for more then double what he was originally offered. 5k og to 15k. Do you think if you made that deal with a famous athlete being paid that kinda money for that specific kind of deal you get to say no whenever? Most definitely not. JKwill suffer in these upcoming episodes and the arc better be fire BUT we can’t just forget a deal is a deal for that kinda money a month.

I'm not gonna argue with u after this other than tell you that COERCION IS NOT CONSENT. Feel free to talk to your friends, teachers, police, professors, any good adult or people bc they will tell you the same as I. There are websites as well to know the difference between consent and coercion.
What I will agree with you is seeing jjk suffering in the next chapters is gonna be lit.

I love in the same message as “Coercion (Cohesion)? Go back and reread” is also the sentence “Do you think if you made that deal with a famous athlete being paid that kinda money for that specific kind of deal you get to say no whenever?” Net zero self-awareness. Pack it up, everyone.

Auto correct and long nails are a fun.
What do you think SB’s do?
They make an agreement with their SD’s and follow through. On paper Our sweet angel Kim Dan is basically a SB ( also a physical therapist) No one is saying that JK is kind or gentle. You have to understand he is a big time athlete with a bad personality obvious issues and money to burn. He fancied Dan at the beginning and this story has taken its course. Dan lied chap 1 told him he’s been with a man so Jk was wayyy too rough not knowing he was lying. But after that he was offered a sum a job a nice house to live in and his grandmother taken care of. I wouldn’t call that coercion. No threat was made. ( by definition it’s FORCING someone to do something using threats or force) Dan not only agreed to sleep with him but asked for even more money which JK said okay to but he said he gets to call on him whenever and wherever he wants. Unless I missed something I don’t recall any threats made other than telling him to leave he can get someone else in chapter 1 or 2? Even in this chapter Dan is the one initiating and JK says that to him here too, yeah Dan was down bad but if everyone who is down bad but still could have said no. Dan has this man wrapped around his finger tighter then we all realize and I think it’ll pan out in Dans favor to the umpteenth degree in the end.

I’m always down for a discussion and I’m never afraid to admit I’m wrong. But isn’t coercion forcing someone to do something using threats or force? I don’t recall JK doing either of those two things. Been awhile since I read S1 but I do remember him telling Dan when they were about to do it the first time to go if he couldn’t handle it and Dan stayed. Later they made a deal on how much he was to be paid and Dan agreed to JKs own want to saying he could take him whenever and wherever. I know Dan is poor and down bad but he agreed I don’t remember JK forcing him to agree to terms. ( side note I’m not saying I love JK I’m just realistic in what is a blatant SD / SB relationship) just my opinions I’m not trying to fight just like to yippity yap yap

- Go reread chapters 1-4 first, I’m not gonna have this discussion with someone who doesn’t remember what happened. I simply do not feel like being told I’m fabricating things I’m not.
- A contract does not negate one’s ability to say no.

It's usually on dates that end with a 2, (2nd,12th,22nd)....after every 10days that is

Thank you so much! (=・ω・=)

Omg Really???do u have the novel link or something?

WHAT LIKE IN THE NOVEL?

Was holding back reading cuz I wanna wait until that scene but everytime I see an update I can’t stop my hand from clicking! (≧∀≦) I can’t marinate with this one ahhhh welppp

Eng vers is not completed only the raw is completed.

I don’t have the link it was posted in the comments on the day of the last update but I read it all and they didn’t do it until chapter sixty something

UPDATE: to say I’m PISSED is an understatement. I looked at the the pictures 64 is the end IT HAS AN ENDING AND I HATEEEE IT. It’s just as awful as you would imagine. This had so much potential to be so good and they just ugh. I feel like this type of story is meant to show reader how important communication is and how easy it would have been if ewwgene said hey I’m mad at you cause you abandoned you and j said well geee pookie butt my b I got my asssss whipped cause I tried to rob these dudes and I also made a mistake in the fam who was gunna adopt you let’s kiss hug n f YIPPIE but no. THERE WAS EXACTLY ZERO COMMUNICATION I HATE IT HERE

LMAOO RIGHT I was expecting seo mido to have every form of trauma, turns out he’s just a drama queen

Such a drama queen GE OUT HERE BREAKING LEGS AND LITERALLY TAKING NAMES

Jaekyung isn’t HALF as bad as Seungho in the beginning of Painter of the night. It’s only been one season

For real! But somehow people don't seem to get that...

girl i can’t beleive signing a contract means you sign all your rights away man i LOVE slavery it’s one of the best things humanity invented we should bring that one back fr! y’all lemme run go tell my workplace they can force me to work 12 hours a day against my will and jeopardize my grades and wellbeing because i signed to them they understaffed asses will LOVE to hear this

I know that I already discussed this with you, so you know what I think about it, but let me ask you a question: why sign a contract or get a job that you're not ready to fully commit to?

Because Dan knew what he was getting himself into when he agreed to the terms and signed the contract. He heard Jaekyung say that they were gonna have sex whenever wherever, and still signed the contract. Yes, he needed the money but that doesn't mean that he still can't say no, if he really didn't want to go through with it.

And then almost right away he says no to having sex when Jaekyung wants it and tries to stop it from happening. I mean, I get it because I wouldn't want to do it in certain places either, but that was exactly what he had signed up for. Whenever, wherever literally means whenever, wherever.

So, Dan saying no is him pretty much breaking the contract and not doing his job correctly. And of course Jaekyung is gonna go on and have his way with him, when that is literally what they agreed on. Of course he thinks that Dan is in on it, when he has signed the contract and all. So, Jaekyung isn't really in the wrong here. He is just doing what they both agreed on.

As I’ve already said, you still retain the right to say no even under a contract. Yes, Dan would almost immediately be breaking contract. Jaekyung has every right to say “then I’m not paying you anymore” and simply find someone else who will follow his rules. He doesn’t have the right to continue having sex with Dan/force him to work.

And simply put, no just means no.

I’m sorry but this is just exhausting and upsetting for me at this point. Do you really sincerely in your heart of hearts think that when someone signs a contract they sign all their human rights away, too? That it’s right for someone to just do what they want to someone because they have money? Or because that person agreed to something, but then decided they don’t want to carry on with that agreement anymore? They’re not allowed to back out?

If someone signed on to do surgery and they found out only after signing that there’s only a 20% they’ll live and that the surgery would be likely to kill them, you’re telling me they’re forced to undergo the procedure anyway? If they knew beforehand and had been willing to take that chance beforehand and then decided they weren’t anymore, you’re telling me the hospital would be in the right to put them under anesthesia and cut them open anyway?

If I agreed to do an interview with someone and I decided midway through that I didn’t like what was being asked of me, after all, and I wanted to leave the interview, you’re telling me that person has the right to chase after me, to follow me all the way to my house to make me finish the interview, just because I agreed to it at first? You don’t actually believe that, do you?

You already know why Dan signed the contract. He did it out of desperation, not because he really wanted to. And sure, yeah, I guess Jaekyung doesn’t have to give a fuck about that. My bad for being foolish enough to think that we should care for each other’s wellbeings as human beings. My bad for recognizing Jaekyung’s blatant lack of care for Dan, his blatant exploitation of Dan, and viewing that as wrong and a violation against him. I’ll take my empathy and sense of morality elsewhere. You’re right, slavery is fine as long as someone’s getting paid. Who cares if they’re getting abused, they’ve got clothes on their backs and some food to eat, right? Rape is fine as long as it’s under contract. The slave has no right to complain or back out.

You already agreed to FRIES. Either you keep consistent or you disagree with FRIES. Either consent is reversible or it isn’t. Either my partner must stop touching me when I tell them so or they can fuck me as they’d like, even as I beg and cry for them to stop, just because I agreed to a cuddle session a few minutes before. Either it’s rape or it isn’t rape. It’s up to you, man. Whatever you decide, like I said, I just hope you keep yourself and others safe out there.

Yet again, I understand what you're saying and your points are valid. Yes, of course you can change your mind, but why sign a contract if you only gonna complain right away and not do what's asked of you? Like, do you expect to get paid, even if youre not doing your job? Then what's even the point of taking the job from the beginning? I just can't wrap my head around that. But that's just me, I guess.

Like seriously I’m really glad you’ve never been in a situation where you’re forced to do things you don’t actually want to do out of sheer desperation. I’m glad you can’t possibly imagine the position that Kim Dan is in, sincerely. You must be living a really good life with your basic needs and even your wants taken care of. No debts to worry about, no dead or dying family members, no reason to subject yourself to work you don’t want to do, but have to do. I’m glad you’ve never found yourself in the proximity of a Jaekyung in this world, either. Thank goodness. You know what Jaekyungs in reality like doing to people? You ever heard about Jeffery Epstein? That’s the type of behavior you’re defending. That’s all I have the energy to say before I start getting really mean, and I don’t want to do that to you, because you’d at least tried to hear me out before.

Okay, it's clear that you don't understand what I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to defend anything. I'm just telling it from how I perceive it, and in my eyes there is no rape because of their agreement. But yeah, It is what it is. You don't agree with me and that's okay.

Where in the webtoon is Dan shown to expect pay if he doesn’t do his job? Yeah sure you can say it’s foolish of him to sign the contract and almost immediately say no. Sure we can just ignore Jaekyung blatantly hurting him when he doesn’t have to. Yeah Dan is so very silly for not wanting to have sex in public or have his ass ripped apart. He’s so silly for trying to ask to do something just slightly different. It’s not like Jaekyung could possibly change his behavior. Come on, man.

And no one is forcing anyone to do anything. Yeah Dan might be in a tight position and is desperate, but that doesn't change the fact that he still has a choice. Yes, it's hard to make the right choice in that exact moment because you're scared of what's gonna happen if you do. You're first instict is of course to keep yourself safe. But if you don't say no and stand up for yourself; you're betraying yourself and that is one of the worst things you can do to yourself. Trust me, I know. I've been there, done that.

Their first time together wasn’t even under contract. Again, either you agree that consent is reversible and that you can take it back at any time, or you don’t. I get what you’re saying and at the same time I think it is so beyond the point of what’s happening here in this webtoon that I simultaneously do not understand, you are right. It’s really hard for me to understand why Dan saying yes to something and then very clearly saying no and then not having that no not respected is so hard to define for some people. It’s really hard for me to understand how and why people aren’t understanding all the things going into the situation and how they interplay with each other. Maybe you aren’t meaning to defend anything and I want to believe that’s the case but I am telling you that people in real life use that type of rhetoric, the “they signed up for it, they agreed to it” to in real life downplay the experiences of victims of rape and sexual assault, who are often already suffering from shame and guilt over what happened even though the perpetrator is completely in the wrong. I have heard and seen it myself.

Ah I see. He should’ve just gone homeless and starved on the streets while his grandma died in the hospital. So choice. Very freedom. Wow.

Come on now... I've never stated that Jaekyung's behavior towards Dan is okay. I've only stated that he is not in the wrong when it comes to the sex part, because they have agreed on that. And yes, Jaekyung is rough in bed, but that is probably his preference and it's nothing wrong with that either. And Dan knew how Jaekyung was like in bed when he signed the contract. And of course Jaekyung is not gonna cater to Dan, because it's not about him. It's about Jaekyung and his jinx.

Crippling debt. More bills on the way. About to be evicted. Already working three jobs. Job prospects fucked. Malnourished. Yeah, he should’ve just chosen better. That’s my bad. Maybe he should’ve just done a fourth job? Or I guess he could just let his grandma die. He’d still have all those bills to pay and now grief to deal with on top of everything. But at least he would’ve chosen better.

Yeah, I didn't say that choices were good...

That's not what I'm saying. Of course that the alternative is awful and I wouldn't want that for him or anyone, but if he really doesn't want to have sex with Jaekyung, then he could choose not to. I'm just using common sense here.

You can be rough in bed with someone while still ensuring they don’t actually get hurt much, next question. Jaekyung shoved his cock in Dan’s ass so hard and with so little prep the first time, Dan fucking bled. Yeah he doesn’t have to cater to Dan and I have the right to think he’s a cunt for it. Or what. Because I signed up to read the webtoon I can’t think that anymore? That’s how this works, right?

Why is it that Jaekyung can’t be expected to make better decisions when he has almost all the power in the relationship, but Dan, who is in crippling poverty, is? Why is Dan expected to do better but Jaekyung isn’t? Like I get that it’s his character and all that but you guys seriously talk about it as if Jaekyung is this force of nature. He isn’t. He’s just as and even MORE culpable than Dan is.

I thought about it today and for all intents and purposes, Dan ought to have more power in this situation. Jaekyung is the one with the jinx, Jaekyung is the one who will suffer if it’s not cured. If Dan really could refuse Jaekyung, Jaekyung would be fucked. But that’s not ever something we get to see in this webtoon—that the need is actually something mutual. Jaekyung is shown to be hooking up with someone even as he’s calling up Dan to fuck with next. Jaekyung can just dangle the money over Dan’s head. If not that he can just threaten him. If not that he can just physically force him. We don’t even know if his “jinx” is real or not. There is no disadvantage on his side he is free to do what he wants. Including getting someone who wouldn’t mind his rough tendencies. No, he went out of his way to pick Dan who he knows full well doesn’t want to do this shit with him except for for the sake of the money. I’m supposed to ignore that?

What else was he supposed to do? Tell me. What’s the real “choice” that he has in his circumstances. Do you think those are real choices? Meaningful choices? Freely chosen? Does that matter to you? If I have a gun to my head and my choice is to hand over my money or die, am I meant to just die because I don’t want to hand over my money?

I’m asking you to use your empathy.

“Betray yourself” yesss yesss guys when victims of abuse don’t stand up to their abusers we should tell them how they’ve betrayed themselves instead of putting the blame on their abusers who have probably worn down their sense of self so much they lost the ability to stand up for themselves altogether this is a tried and true method of helping people out. We should tell them that after months, maybe even years, of them trying to stand up for themselves, and nothing coming of it, that it’s their fault for giving up, that they’ve betrayed themselves for giving up and learning, like the human brain is built to do, that the thing they are doing doesn’t bare results but only pain. Please please please think about what you are saying. I’m so serious.

Like dude yes I get what you’re saying and it’s not necessarily wrong but at the same time it completely misses the point. It fails to take literally anything else into consideration. I’m begging you.

AGAIN... I never said that he had good choices. So, I don't know where you getting that from. But what I'm saying is no matter the consequences he still has a choice. So, please don't misunderstand me. Because I'm not saying that he should let himself become homeless and all those things. He should of course do anything he can to keep himself from that fate. But if he really doesn't want to do all those things with Jaekyung, he shouldn't.
That's all I'm saying.

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I didn't mean it like that at all. You're just twisting my words to your liking.

I’m not saying you’re saying that they’re good choices—I’m saying that he does not realistically, actually have a choice, when his two choices are starve to death on the streets, or do sex work.

What is the point in saying something so obvious, then? Of course he shouldn’t. Even he knows he shouldn’t and he doesn’t want to. But he has to. That’s the whole premise of this webtoon. What is the point in you saying and reiterating that he shouldn’t when you offer no alternatives? That’s the thing I’m getting at. When you say that he has a choice in these circumstances and you double and triple down on saying that he just shouldn’t have signed the contract with Jaekyung, you are implicitly saying that there is an alternative. You are saying that there is a better choice that Dan could’ve made, and that he did not make that choice. Does that make sense? Because there’s no other point in saying that if you can’t offer any better alternatives, if you know that the alternatives are in their own ways just as bad if not worse.

Then what do you mean when you say these things! What is the meaning you are trying to communicate! What is the point!

It's probably because I'm not good at explaining things. But I'll give it another try. When I say "betraying yourself" I mean that when you don't say no and don't stand up for yourself you feel really bad mentally, you feel disgusting, because what you just agreed to goes against your own morals and wishes. You literally feel like shit.
Hope that helps...

That makes sense and I agree it can feel really bad when you don’t stand up for yourself, especially when you really want to and you know you should. And I will never say that it’s a bad thing to tell people to stand up for themselves. But it’s like—there’s a time and place for everything, and there’s also proper ways of framing things.

The reason why I brought up the abuse thing is because like, yeah man—imagine you ARE a victim of abuse. You probably already feel horrible mentally and emotionally just from the things your abuser has been saying and/or doing to you, even as you’ve tried to fight against them. Do you think that thinking to yourself, if/when you eventually give up, something like “I’m betraying myself” would make you feel better? Or would it make you feel worse? Wouldn’t you blame yourself more? Or feel like you deserve what’s happening to you, because you aren’t doing enough? Even though the abuse isn’t your fault regardless of if you’re standing up to it or not?

Imagine someone came up to you and said “I’m really sorry that’s happening to you, but you need to stand up for yourself, you’re betraying yourself!” They might be right—but wouldn’t you feel worse? Wouldn’t you feel like they’re not understanding all the shit you’re going through and have went through when they say something like that?

Wouldn’t it be slightly more compassionate and empowering to say, “Something horrible is happening to me and it isn’t my fault, I deserve better”?

Yes what you're saying is correct. I agree with you completely. But I'm not saying that you literally should think that you're betraying yourself, and you don't really think that way when you're right there in the moment anyway. I just call it that way because you betray yourself in that sense that you go against your own morals and wishes. So, it's just the way I like to phrase it, I guess.
And, of course I wouldn't tell someone to stand up for themselves and that they are betraying themselves, because just like you're saying; it's totally wrong.

Okay, I see. I’m sorry if I was taking you too literally, I’m admittedly sensitive to the type of language we use to talk about things. I think it’s really important, you know? To try to say the right thing—that’s one of the only ways people can understand you.

But okay—why can’t we say the same thing for Dan? Yeah he could do something different, but even you haven’t offered any better alternatives. And I wouldn’t know what to do in his situation, either. Get a fourth job? Let my grandma die? Sell the apartment? Seek some kind of financial aid that might put me further in debt? We both know Jaekyung doesn’t have to be doing anything that he’s doing and that he’s being horrible to Dan for no real reason, right? His jinx doesn’t justify all of this, right? Money doesn’t justify all this, right? Why can’t we look at Dan and say, something really horrible is happening to him, it’s not his fault, and he deserves better? What is the point in saying he has a choice, that he agreed to something he shouldn’t when he hardly has any better alternatives? When he’s already suffering so much at Jaekyung’s hands?

God you’re dumb. lol he isn’t enslaved you psycho.
His deal was that he gets paid a RIDICULOUS amount of money to be his 1. PT and 2. Be Fed whenever and WHEREVER J asked. What part of this is screaming slavery you moron

Before anything else: did you read my conversation with the other person in this thread? And I’ll just throw out there that Jaekyung said “I just bought you with cold hard cash” after paying off Dan’s debt, which sounds a lot like something a slave owner would say about someone they think is their property. Hmm and I do remember that enslaved people cost quite a lot and could be traded for all types of goods. But eh, what do I know! Maybe that’s a normal thing you say to someone you’re doing a nice little favor for and not someone you see as an object!

You retain the right to say no to something even if you’re under contract. That’s a basic human right. My job cannot force me to come into work if I don’t want to work. They can refuse to pay me, they can fire me, they can even pursue legal action. They can’t come physically force me to go into my place of work and do the work there. At that point they are in the wrong and in many places, doing so would be outright illegal.

Dan retains the right to say no to something even under contract. Part of Dan’s work is sex work—the act of having sex. If Dan refuses to work, AKA have sex, Jaekyung has every right to refuse to pay him or nullify their contract. He can’t force him to work, which in this case would be having sex with Dan. That is then rape, because Dan is no longer in agreement and not consenting.

Any contract that waives away your right to say no is a slave contract. Their contract isn’t in and of itself a slave contract (well, debatable) but when you guys argue that Jaekyung isn’t raping Dan or that because Dan agreed to the contract it means he can no longer say no to anything that’s done to him, you are saying that Dan no longer has rights or autonomy. That’s slavery.

Me when I’m definitely not a slavery apologist: but some of the slave owners were really nice! They put a roof over their slaves’ heads and gave them food and clothes! Being owned was good for them!

hmmm… https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slavery

HMMM…………. https://www.britannica.com/topic/sex-slavery

HMMMMMMM…………….. yeah no commonalities with what is depicted in this webtoon at all!

If Dan had no choice, how is any of that Jaekyung’s fault? Jaekyung has asked Dan to leave twice and as we've all read, he still stayed requesting to get more cash at the spice of it all. He might've hated the sex they had at the beginning but he still approved of it. You say it's dehumanizing but the same person still decided to put their self in that situation.

The same exact situation of what’s happening to Dan is exactly what happens in companies. You dare not go against the contract that you signed, that would be a resounding fail on your path which you would need to pay for.

If he's really a slave, then how do you explain the free food? The hospitality? Freedom of movement? It's time you get your head back in the game and stop putting over-exaggerated names to minor things.

If he's really a slave then howw could he leave at the ending of the season???

Y'all are doing as if Jaekyung never planned on replacing Dan many times. At the beginning of their supposed contract, he was ready to replace Dan but of course, Dan stopped him. Another time was with the toy, and then one time with the March against that asshole.

Jaekyung is an asshole but I just don't see what he did as rape.

Ngl but this thread section was longer than the manhwa itself...idk what is going on but i hope we got our final destination? But indeed people should agree that put fictional into the place of fictional..and only read what you can digest...why fight over some fictional story

Didn’t say it’s Jaekyung fault that Dan doesn’t have many/if any good options, I’m saying it’s his fault for deliberately choosing to exploit Dan. Next question.

A company can’t force me to work. If they do they’d be wrong. They can sue me for breaking contract. Next question.

He’s receiving all these things under the conditions that he continues having sex with Jaekyung. It’s not free. He is paying with his body. Next question.

I’m not saying he is a literal slave. Their contract does not in and of itself constitute full on sexual slavery, even though there is strong argument to be made for coercion on Jaekyung’s part—especially if it’s the case that Dan wouldn’t have been able to work as Jaekyung’s PT anymore unless he was also doing sex work.

I am saying that when you say that Dan is not being raped, or that he doesn’t have the right to say no to what’s happening to him, and that Jaekyung has the right to do anything he wants to Dan even after Dan explicitly tells him not to, you are advocating for slavery-like conditions.

idk how many times i have to say i don’t give a fuck about this webtoon i care about how people are responding to what’s depicted in it and how it impacts REAL PEOPLE in REAL LIFE. god for fucking bid some of y’all ever encounter a sex worker or become one. god forbid you ever meet a jeffrey epstein or a diddy. jesus fucking christ.

mfw my company asks me to slit my wrists every day until im fainting from the blood loss but the company is always right and exempt from any responsibility moral or otherwise and i dare not go against the contract that i signed as that would be a resounding fail on my path which i’d need to pay for. by slitting my wrists more

And what is wrong that? You think that kind of money should just be given freely? Dan isn't even complaining as long as his bills are handled.

I agree there's coercion but that gets debunked when Dan is told to leave afterward if he couldn't handle it.

Advocating slavery-like conditions? Something that Dan agreed to? Asking for more cash afterward? Tf? Dan could say be gentle and I swear Jaekyung would listen. If you notice from the dialogues, you'll see most of Dan’s feelings are worded through his thoughts. Jk isn't a mind reader. He wants sex to handle his jinx, not rape. Various scenes have shown that Jaekyung really cared about the well-being of Dan and it has also shown in a few cases that he didn’t know how to handle them. One fact, Dan lied about being experienced, jk told him he wouldn't go easy on him. Jk was so clear on their agreement and Dan is just being unprofessional about it.

Look at you comparing different things to each other. I get where you're coming from but I'll just tell you this, don't put yourself in a situation you can't handle. When put in that situation, it isn't always easy to get out. The recipient should learn more bf making any rash decisions.

I want to study medicine, can I pass the major? Hmm, not really since I'm not all that good at basics and I prefer something calculative but I think I can do it. *proceeds to do it and fails* you bear the consequences of your actions. It's left for you to adapt or let yourself perish. Dan adapted and left the situation after facing the consequences.

I honestly don't know what I just said but maybe cope?

Yeah I do actually I think everyone should be given a livable wage and free shelter and food and healthcare amongst other things, so we wouldn’t see situations like this where someone like Jaekyung can abuse someone like Dan. I think it’d be a net good for society. :)

YOU’RE the one who said that Dan is being given a bunch of “free” things. So I clarified and said that it isn’t for free. Is it that it’s free or is it that nothing’s wrong with it not being free? Choose one.

Dan openly says “no, stop, wait, it hurts, slow down” amongst other things. Jaekyung ignores him. Jaekyung shoves his cock into Dan’s ass so hard the first time they have sex, he tears and he bleeds. This is after Dan tried crawling away. Or, what, suddenly we can’t read body language? That’s care to you? Seeing someone crawl away from you after begging you to stop, shoving into them so hard that they bleed, and making them cry from the pain? Not slowing down afterwards? That’s caring to you? Forcing that person’s face into the sheets and threatening to break their ankle? That’s care? I have my notes on this. You know what Jaekyung says immediately after asking if Dan is experienced or not? He says “I suppose it doesn’t matter.” You really want me to believe he actually cares about Dan’s wellbeing? Do you think Jaekyung’s behavior is normal? Please, don’t make me fucking laugh.

Right so Dan should’ve starved to death on the streets and let his grandma die, I gotcha. Jaekyung has no responsibility at all to not hurt Dan, I gotcha, I gotcha.

You said it’s slavery! I mentioned things a slave can't do which Dan is doing! So now it's slavery to work for money????

He's an asshole, I never denied that fact. After those actions of his, Jaekyung TELLS HIM TO LEAVE. If I'm correct he went through the lines of “If you can't handle this then just fk leave” and what does Dan say??? “No you just startled me, i can do this” gasps* OMGGG HE WAS STARTLED??? And you really expect Jaekyung to not believe him. And then what happens? Dan takes it all and Jk notices he's not breathing well and forcefully grabs him by the neck saying “Then breathe” and you say he doesn't care? He might've done it forcefully but that's a sign that he cares, he just doesn't know how to handle it.

What do you say to a person who continuously tells you yes and no at the same time? You proceed to reject but they still insist over and over again. Do you know how frustrating that is??? Coercion this and that, Coercion where??? It gets debunked through the next scenes. How can he be coerced and he comes back to ask for more cash?

Just bc a person is bad doesn't mean you should name them all various sorts of things bc it fits your perspective of them.

You're acting as if Jaekyung knew about dan’s financial situation beforehand. He didn't even know about his grandma nor did he know anything about his financial situation. Make it make sense.

I like how limited your definition and view of slavery is. Let’s expand it. But let me first clarify once again. I did not say that Dan and Jaekyung’s relationship constituted literal slavery. I am saying that there is a strong case to be made for it being akin to it. And I am saying that when you say that Dan no longer retains the right to say NO to work, and that he is FORCED to CONTINUE DOING WORK even after he has CLEARLY SAID NO, you are ADVOCATING FOR SLAVERY-LIKE CONDITIONS. You are saying that DAN CAN HAVE ONE OF HIS BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS REVOKED.

Merriam Webster definitions of slavery:

a: the practice or institution of holding people as chattel involuntarily and under threat of violence

b: the state of a person who is forced usually under threat of violence to labor for the profit of another

c: a situation or practice in which people are coerced to work under conditions that are exploitative

Britannica definition of sexual slavery:

sex slavery, condition in which one human being is owned by another and is forced or otherwise coerced into working in the sex trade. Activities associated with sex slavery include prostitution, pornography, child sex rings, sex tourism, and such occupations as nude dancing and modeling. Sex trafficking is the procurement and transport of the victims.

And I’ll thrown in Merriam’s definition of wage slave as well:

someone who is dependent upon wages to make a living often with little or no opportunity for advancement

English isn't my first language but I hope I'm clear enough.

Ohhhh okay so if I get frustrated with someone being indecisive while we’re having sex, instead of stopping, instead of taking that as a clear sign to stop what I’m doing, I should keep going! If my partner starts crying from obvious pain I should just keep fucking them while she cries! You’re right, thank you, I’ll make sure to do this next time!

He didn’t know about it beforehand but I personally think someone as wealthy as him should be responsible with how they manage their wealth. You’re acting as if Jaekyung didn’t eventually find out about Dan’s financial situation and his grandma.

How recently have you read this webtoon. I have notes on the first four chapters. Do you want notes on the events of first four chapters? Because we’re clearly disagreeing on what happened during the first time they fucked and I’m not letting you twist my fucking brain into thinking something else happened that I know didn’t happen or that things that DID happen didn’t happen.

I get it I get it but that is not the case.

Dan genuinely wants to work for Joo Jaekyung. He does bruh, he feels grateful for the things Jakeyung has done for him. I want you to know that they signed their official contract when Dan came to Jaekyung’s place and demanded more cash. He willingly wanted to do it to save his life. He was ready and open to prostitute himself and there was no coercion in that scene.

Can you please go and read that chapter again and see what happens after Dan cries? Bc you're rephrasing every single thing that happened just to fit your own belief. Thanks♡

I acknowledge that Dan went back and “willingly” made a contract with Jaekyung. I’m not arguing that. That seems to be true. Of fucking course Dan is grateful for what Jaekyung does for him. I am arguing that Dan has the right to say no to Jaekyung even after signing the contract and that if his no isn’t respected it is rape. Dan said no to Jaekyung several times. Jaekyung does not ever stop.

He eventually found out but atthat first moment he didn't know therefore he didn't take ADVANTAGE of it!

No please answer my question if my partner tells me to stop and to go and they keep switching things up, should I just continue? Or should I call it quits, either because it’s clear that the person in question isn’t comfortable, or because their indecisiveness might get me in trouble. I reread the chapters I took notes on the goddamn chapters because you motherfuckers said that I was missing something and I wasn’t missing anything. I will post my chapter notes and YOU will reread the chapter and call ME out on my bullshit if there’s any bullshit to be had.

chapter 1
- dan witnesses jaekyung uncontrollably beat the shit outta someone off the bat in ch. 1, contributing to preexisting fear of physical violence from him. granted though this was not jaekyung’s intention (debatable honestly) and does also count towards why dan could’ve/should’ve known to say no to the agreement
- jaekyung is just overall physically intimidating whether he’s trying to be or not. this isn’t his fault but there’s no question that he uses this to try to get his way in situations
- uh. dan was hired as a pt. not even by jaekyung himself but by his manager? ch. 1
- dan is there for the conversation about jaekyung having knocked the previous pt out. point for he should’ve/could’ve left earlier, but also point for jaekyung (inadvertently here, granted) using threats of physical violence to intimidate, which could contribute to a coerced yes later
- dan comes to the conclusion that if he doesn’t do well, he will have physical violence used against him. jaekyung’s manager basically confirms this saying as long as dan doesn’t do anything to get on his nerves, he’ll be fine
- dan has a history of being physically abused, as such he will do anything he can to avoid it happening. that said jaekyung doesn’t know about this at this point (ch. 1)
- personally this…i feel like jaekyung picks out dan as his next target precisely because he’s a “little wimp” as he describes him after that first sesh
- as stated before dan is having to work multiple jobs to maintain himself which again highlights the sheer power differential between these two (can i clarify and say—jaekyang is not solely responsible for the sex being ultimately nonconsenual if that makes sense and i feel like this is what i was really trying to argue. we’ll see)
- dan is just so. self-blaming nothing to do with jaekyang yet but brother
- dan’s job prospects got fucked because of his previous boss, who was caught sexually assaulting him, but ended up getting him fired and spreading rumors about him. this contributes further to how desperate dan’s situation is hence why he is not given a meaningful choice (again, not ALL jaekyang’s fault)
- dan can’t afford to up and move somewhere where he might have better prospects idk how many times ill list down “he doesn’t have a real choice because he’s poor not because of jaekyung specifically although jaekyung doesn’t help”
- dan feeling unsafe everywhere. nothing to necessarily do with anything yet just an interesting detail
- dan is/would’ve been stuck between a rock and a hard place, getting beaten up by the loan sharks or getting raped or assaulted or whatever by jaekyung
- jaekyung lies to dan about his treatment to lure him to his appointment i guess you can argue dan should’ve used his common sense here but that feels victim blamey and if we can critique dan for lying about his experience we can certainly critique jaekyung for lying about why he was calling dan to his house
- dan says no to going to the apartment, jaekyung offers him more money for him to go (bribery more than coercion though lol but…considering that this is kind of a trap,)

chapter 2
- jaekyung…had someone else he was fucking already? who was willing? why switch to dan all of a sudden?
- dan again witnesses jaekyung use an disproportionate amount of physical violence (slamming guy’s head into a wall) AND a death threat against someone because of a slight provocation. again, this counts towards both “dan should’ve known better and left” and “dan likely (rightly) felt too intimidated to say no”
- jaekyung definitely does find dan physically attractive but we still don’t know why he decided to quit his previous partner for him
- jaekyung does try to get a vibe check on what dan might think/how he might feel about being propositioned
- the jinx in and of itself is a fundamentally fucking stupid plot device so let’s start there. we don’t know if it’s real or not we don’t get any real explanation for it other than that it exists. it exists to justify jaekyung’s sex-pesty behavior though, that’s for sure. you can interpret it as also another method of coercion—what he’s saying is that if he loses, it will have been dan’s fault. this of course puts a disproportionate amount of pressure on dan but maybe im getting ahead of myself
- jaekyung physically grabs dan. nothing violent yet though but this is yknow. erm
- jaekyung does indeed give dan the choice to leave if he doesn’t want to have sex But the added consequence is no money. as noted before this guy lied in the first place. also note the language use: “guess you don’t **need** that five grand after all” just…interesting
- again, dan’s circumstances make his yes not a meaningful yes. that isn’t specifically entirely jaekyung’s fault but ***jaekyung does not help.***

chapter 3
ch. 3
- jaekyung does indeed ask if dan has been with a man before. he follows up with “i suppose it doesn’t actually matter.” now again dan should’ve been honest he is responsible for that but also, jaekyung, if he actually gave a fuck, wouldn’t just assume things—especially with the non-answer dan gives, the hesitance he shows
- dan did just lie though. stupid bitch. you could say this counts against him but you could also attribute his feeling of having to lie to not only his own personal psychology but, again, the various shows of violence and intimidation jaekyung had performed beforehand
- jaekyung uses physical force on dan to get him out of the shower and throw him onto the bed after he takes too long in the shower. again dan ain’t sign up for allat. again jaekyung could’ve/should’ve checked in properly here but whatever it’s his character
- threatens to break dan’s ankle when he struggles and asks him to wait
- I GET THIS IS FANTASY BUT I DON’T CARE HOW EXPERIENCED SOMEONE IS YOU DO NOT SHOVE A COCK UP THEIR ASS NO PREP ESPECIALLY NOT A MONSTER COCK. THIS GUY JUST WANTED TO HURT HIM. “DISCOMFORT” DURING SEX MY ASS? NO PUN INTENDED?
- threatens violence again (“if you waste my time like that last little bitch, don’t expect to be sent home safe and sound”) when dan says he can’t actually go through with the sex, prompting dan to think of. the guy getting his face smashed into a wall.
- dan explicitly asks jaekyung “then how do i do this? if you just put it in, i think i’ll tear.” personally i once again think that this should have been a red flag to anyone who cares about the virginal status of their partner but. ok
- jaekyung says “last chance, no more mr. nice guy after this” which is another threat/intimidation tactic. he does tell dan to leave if he can’t handle prep. but this followed after the threat of getting his shit rocked if he’s too slow.
- do you really read all this and then read dan going “well i asked for it” and think “yep he sure did!” and not feel bad. at all. and like something isn’t right here.
- again jaekyung uses physical force on dan when he’s going too slow for his liking
- dan sure does ask for jaekyung to fuck his ass. after being roughly fingered
- dan tells jaekyung that it hurts and asks jaekyung to stop, jaekyung does not stop. jaekyung in fact proceeds to shove dan’s head into the mattress and say, “keep testing my patience, and i’ll smash your head in” followed by “just shut up and take it”

chapter 4
- dan tries to crawl away from jaekyung, jaekyung slams into him
- very hard pressed to read jaekyung’s response here as being one of concern/sympathy (“what the, are you crying? over that? i barely even put it in!”) it is if anything belittling. again dan is responsible for being honest but jaekyung is responsible for creating a space where he feels safe to be honest. besides that, jaekyung would’ve actually asked if he was okay instead of pounding into him
- jaekyung pounds into him, explicitly saying that he likes seeing dan cry, and that the tears won’t make him go easy on him
- jaekyung does…”check in” on dan, dan foolishly says he can take it.
- speaking of dan lying, when jaekyung says he’s had a bunch of cocks before, dan says that isn’t the case
- dan asks jaekyung to be gentler, jaekyung tells him to shut up and then goes harder and even covers his mouth so y’know even if he wanted to say no he couldn’t that’s very consensual to me
several different websites define rape, legally, to involve nonconsensual sexual intercourse (penetration) being done to another person by means of force—force being psychological coercion, threats, use of drugs, and/or use of physical force.

You mistake lack of comfort for lack of consent.

How do you define consent, then. I'm posting my FRIES model. Do you disagree with this?

Consent must be: Freely given (without pressure, manipulation, or under the influence of drugs or alcohol), Reversible (able to be taken back at any time), Informed (all parties must disclose any information that might threaten the safety of the interaction, any information that would cause someone not to consent), Enthusiastic (parties involved are doing things they really want to do and have expressed as much), and Specific (agreeing or consenting to one act doesn’t mean a party agrees to or consents to any and all acts).

There’s also the CRISP model of consent, which takes into consideration the fact that it can be difficult to always fully “freely give” consent because things like power dynamics and different systems of oppression (like sexism, racism, …capitalism, etc) can’t always be fully erased from an interaction, but can and should still be accounted for in some way. The C stands for Considered (as in all parties are given time to consider all the factors going into something and deciding whether or not they want to consent), and the P stands for Participatory (as in all parties need to be involved in the decision-making process, all parties need to have their thoughts, feelings, opinions heard and considered and accounted for).

My own nuances I’d add are: consent must be ongoing, as in should be acquired throughout an interaction (which is partially covered by the Specific clause) and that all parties, but especially the dominant/giving party or parties, are responsible for deliberately fostering an environment where consent can operate from within these models.

You forgot the part where he said “i can do this”. That's rough sex but on Dan’s part it is sexual assault. Rape could be called sexual assault but not all forms of sexual assault could be called rape.

In my notes I put:
- jaekyung does…”check in” on dan, dan foolishly says he can take it.

Can you define what sexual assault and rape are for me real quick? It is to my understanding that the only thing distinguishing the two is whether or not penetration was involved. Sexual assault is everything up until penetration. Rape involves penetration. Jaekyung penetrates Dan.

BUT ARE YOU SERIOUSLY GOING TO IGNORE LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE THING THAT HAPPENS BEFORE THIS POINT? YOU'RE GOING TO IGNORE DAN ASKING JAEKYUNG TO GO GENTLER AND JAEKYUNG REFUSING? DIDN'T YOU SAY SEVERAL TIMES THAT JAEKYUNG WOULD'VE GONE GENTLER IF DAN ASKED?

Jaekyung doesn't verbally refuse. I don't think you're reading jinx right. Can you give me a few hours so i could get my own notes on the chapter?

Fine.

Thanks

Unfortunately, my note isn't ready. I had a lot of work to do today so please bear with me!

Uhuh.

Damn…work must be real busy huh.

Thank you for all your hard work! I enjoyed the discussion ^^

Look, I’m not like you who dedicates their full time to a Manhwa, I also don’t like writing long essays and I also know we’re having a debate. My point is, I still stand on no rape in this Manhwa, yes, there’s abuse but there is no form of rape here. You can disagree. I can’t just go ahead and say Jaekyung raped Dan when he had told him to leave thrice, I can’t say Jakeyung raped Dan when Dan came again to ask for more cash. I can’t say Jakeyung raped Dan when Dan was aware of what he was getting himself into.

If Jakeyung raped Dan then Dan had also raped Jakeyung for sleeping with him knowing he was drunk. Y’all completely forgot that part ey?

Anyway, it was nice sharing thoughts with you but I have to end it here bc I’m tired. We don’t have to conclude neither do we need to agree. You believe it’s rape and I don’t and that’s that.

Bye.

One last thing, consent can be given and taken back but it can also be given again.

It’s been…literal days. All you had to do was reread four chapters. The gall of you to claim that I was reading Jinx wrong, meanwhile you couldn’t read just FOUR QUICK CHAPTERS and give me an answer.

You say you stand by the idea that there’s no rape in the webtoon, fine. I stand by the idea that YOU are the one who can’t read, that you, for some bizarre reason, refuse to call a spade a spade at no real cost to yourself, and that should you find yourself or someone else in an abusive or coercive situation, you would not be able to identify it as such, nor would you be able to respond properly to that situation. Because that’s what’s at stake here. When you say things like “he knew what he was getting into” you are parroting almost word for word the type of rhetoric people use against real life victims of sexual assault, rape, and abuse, to downplay what they’ve gone through. And this is the kind of rhetoric which keeps those victims silent about their already traumatic experiences at the hands of horrible people—horrible people who are FULLY TO BLAME for not being decent people. It’s the type of rhetoric that traumatizes them all over again, which makes them blame themselves for something that wasn’t their fault, and which excuses their abusers for their actions and behaviors if not partially then entirely.

Yes, Dan does eventually go back for more money from Jaekyung. But that’s AFTER their first interaction together, where they had no pre-established blanket consent. But in the first place, we do not and should not even have to get into the nuances of contracts and blanket consent—both of which do not erase your right to say no—in order to determine what is happening and what happens several times in this webtoon. If you operate from the very simple concept of “no means no,” from the very simple concept that someone can say no in a whole host of ways—including telling someone to wait, or to stop, or “not now” or “it hurts” or “slow down” or that person trying to crawl away from you, amongst other things—if you operate from the very simple concept that when someone’s no is ignored, then they are no longer consenting, and anything done to them thereafter is nonconsensual, and if you have read and paid any attention to any of the text that is in this webtoon whatsoever…you will very clearly see that Dan says no to Jaekyung several times, and Jaekyung continues what he’s doing several times. Jaekyung rapes Dan, several times. If no doesn’t mean no to you, though, then, well. I don’t know what to tell you anymore.

Unlike you I am more than willing to call out rape when I see it, wherever I believe I am seeing it. I like to be logically consistent and sound. Yes, Dan did rape Jaekyung while he was drunk. Because you can’t consent while you’re under the influence. I’m not on some pussy shit like you are, that was dumb and wrong of Dan, even if we actually somewhat understand where he was coming from. And I find it frankly fucked up that you’re using that as a “haha, gotcha!” moment when we, or at least I, am trying to have a serious, actual discussion here. If you can acknowledge that being under the influence of drugs and alcohol muddies consent then you can acknowledge that Jaekyung also raped Dan while he was under the influence of whatever drug the rival team tried drugging Jaekyung with later in the webtoon, right? Or what, is that one a special exception somehow, too.

Okay buddy. Next time I’m with someone and they start crying saying they’re scared or can’t handle what I’m doing to them but then they suddenly “change their mind” I will just continue doing what I’m doing without bothering to check in or unpack that

Like is this too theoretical for you? Should I get into more real life examples of the types of situations people have been in, including myself, to illustrate how messed up the thing you’re saying is? You would tell me to my face that what occurred in these situations wasn’t rape just because…what? If a child let someone molest them several times for money, would you consider that consensual? If a woman’s husband had sex with her while she was asleep and unwilling and she stayed in that relationship, would you say the husband didn’t rape her? If a guy agreed to give his boyfriend a blowjob but that boyfriend took it a step further, despite the guy’s protests, and shoved him down to have anal sex with him, would you say that isn’t rape? Because the guy gave the boyfriend a blowjob?

Ooop close babe you signed UP to work you’re free to quit whenever. You are told your responsibilities and expectations at the beginning you either agree and take it or say no and don’t. Then you go through your first month of work and decide if it’s too much or if you’re happy with it. Dan CHOSE this he CONSENTED to this. You can’t call it exploitation. Dan worked a second job to pay for a luxury key chain he could have worked another job to pay debts. He gets a lot from J. MORE than what he asked for. J gave him a place to live paid off his grandmother’s hospital bills. NOWHERE in their agreement did it say he would be sweet loving and gental. CLEARLY you can’t handle this story maybe stop reading it

The fact you’re bringing slavery into a functional story makes me concerned for your mental well being. The slavery statement is a reach babe. I know you so BADLY want it to be soavery but it’s not lol. Slaves didn’t get a choice. They didn’t SIGN UP for that job title it was FORCED upon them ( by their own people I’ll add selling them to people all over the world) last I check Dan wasn’t forced into this role. Like you said it’s a job he went as far as to ask for MORE MONEY and J said okay well if you want that I want you whenever and wherever I want. Guess who agreed? If your answer is Dan ding ding ding knuckle head you’re right. ITS DAN he AGREED. I don’t see J tying him up against his will beating him drugging him etc like salves were treated. Please don’t equate a horrendous act to a FICTIONAL story. Dan can quit whenever slaves couldn’t. Learn and use the two brain cells that are trying so hard to spark before you speak.

I can handle this shittily written story just fine, thanks. Not sure if you guys could handle stories with more complex themes, though. Like I said, I just hope none of you ever end up in the situation Dan is in.

Unfortunately babe I wouldn’t be in his position because it’s not something I would personally AGREE and CONSENT to do like Dan did. He only quit cause he feels like he is causing problems for J. Weak. Kinda debunks your whole “ he needs the money he has no other option” he’s quitting just fine at the end so….

Did you know that there are fictional stories that depict various types of slavery? Should I not comment on it just because it’s fictional? Did you know there are fictional stories that depict the abuse of power by tyrannical governments? Should I not comment on it just because it’s fictional? Did you know that there are fictional stories that depict abuse? Should I not comment on it just because it’s fictional? Does this thing called “fiction” suddenly completely sever the connection between stories and real life? Or are fictional stories, which are often drawing from real life experiences, meant to have us reflect on our own real life?

You’re saying I should use my braincells—I’m the one trying to broaden this story and what it’s depicting outwards and consider some of its real world implications…because even the most fantastical stories have them. Dan is a sex worker and when I’m thinking about him I’m thinking about how his experience—and the rhetoric people are using to talk about it—maps out onto the VERY REAL experiences of sex workers and the very real way people talk about them and their work. Just the other day one of my students had made a similar argument as you did—about how sex workers shouldn’t do that type of work, that it’s not hard to just find another job, in the same breath as she mentioned how dangerous the work is. It’s like she didn’t exercise the slightest bit of empathy, or take into consideration the various extenuating factors playing into why it’s hard for people to find another type of work, or actually thinking of ways to make those workers safer. No, the dangerousness of the job is a given, and not something that can be fixed or changed—it’s all the workers’ faults if they’re abused on the job. You LITERALLY would not say something like this for any other job. You would not argue that people making minimum wage at Amazon deserve to be forced to work so long and with so poor facilities that they have to piss in bottles. I’m sure that kind of thing wasn’t part of their contract but it doesn’t make it any less abusive and wrong. Or, what, should Amazon be left to its own devices?

Me, several times: their agreement does not in and of itself constitute slavery, but there is an argument to be made for it and the way people are arguing about how the conditions of the contract works/should work is advocating for slavery-like conditions. Also, there are several types and definitions of slavery

You guys: you want this to be slavery SOOO BAD

It’s almost like he got some more money and was no longer in the crippling debt and poverty and near homelessness he had been at the beginning of the story…wow guys I cannot believe it but even this story follows the basic rules of storytelling where characters and their situations change over the course of the story. Incredible stuff.

But anyway your words precisely prove one of the many things that I’ve been hypothesizing about the people arguing this position—it’s coming from a place of total privilege and ignorance. You’re arguing like this because you cannot for a moment step outside of your own shoes or consider that one day you will be in those shoes yourself. Of course it’s so easy for you to say you just wouldn’t agree or consent to Jaekyung’s actions and behaviors. You’ve probably never had a hard day in your life. Or if you have it hasn’t taught you anything at all.

Y'all go on and ON about fiction and fictional stories and then absolutely refuse to engage with it. "Oh I personally wouldn't agree or consent to that." I don't think you know that for sure. I don't think you really know what you'd do if you found yourself on the brink of homelessness, working three jobs, deep in financial debt, and with a sick and dying grandmother in the hospital. I don't know what I'd do, either, honestly. But more than that it's not even about what you would personally do, it's about understanding how and why the character would do what they'd do and all the factors going into that decision.

Nah because I can't let this fucking go, can you please explain to me why you felt it was so important to bring up the idea that some enslaved people were sold into slavery "by their own people" really quick? I really really want to know why that was an important detail for you to add here. Speaking as a black person. What point were you trying to make there?

Bye