Like rocket science love, star struck. realistic plotting and characters. Slow burn, good development. Drama, angst, comedy, thriller, anything is fine.
The same pale skin, pointy chins, small face, big eyes, soft lines, skinny petite bodies or significantly smaller than the seme. While semes can be characterized by their square jaws, sharp cheekbones, big muscley bodies, often hooded eyes, and always over six feet. There are very very few exceptions. It's like artists don't even wanna play around body types, so we get the same shit microwaved over and over.
Nah there are a lot of buff muscular ukes now, :v there are only two types of uke
1. The pale, skinny, feminine ones
2. Very buff, muscular men
This is why i love Eunsan, he's like the perfect size and has personality
I have read plenty of BL manhwas and most ukes are the way described in the post. The buff ones are like twenty to one. My point is artists can explore all shades and sizes and types in between but they don't.
Why do you guys hate feminine men so much lol and most of the new bls has literally buff/muscular semes
You deliberately want to miss the point just because YOU like to see twinky ukes because that makes it easier for you to self insert against the buff big dick semes. I am talking about variety and exploring different body types or do you think all bottoms look twinky? This post isn't even about hating on them but an observation about how most bl artists design the uke's appearance. And please take your head out of your ass if you think that these writers don't deliberately draw AND write most ukes as women characters set in misogynistic stories and opposite misogynistic semes because it's a trope that sells and has nothing to do with actual realistic people or body types. Like please stop pretending this post is about hating on ukes when it is actually about fetishization of men who bottom.
*ukes
bruh it's really not that deep and you don't even know me so what's with the baseless assumptions? You’re putting a lot of intention and personal projection into my one comment when I was just pointing out that the “all ukes are twinks” thing isn’t exactly true anymore. I’m not dismissing your point about variety being a good thing, but acting like anyone who disagrees with your generalization must secretly be defending fetishization or self-inserting is a bit much.
And yeah, some BL still runs on outdated tropes, but that doesn’t mean every uke is just “a woman in a man’s body” written to pander to a misogynistic audience. Sometimes artists lean on certain aesthetics because it’s their style.And just how some people love muscular ukes,some love feminine ukes as well.I agree there’s a problem when bottoms are fetishized in toxic ways,especially in those stories that romanticize rape and abuse. That’s exactly why I avoid that kind of BL altogether. But lumping all feminine men or twinky characters into the same “fetishized” category ignores the fact that they exist irl. If we’re talking variety,ok let’s do that but jumping to personal attacks over people pointing out counterexamples doesn’t really help the conversation.
I think that stereotype persists mostly because people keep looking at the most mainstream, trope-heavy titles and ignoring the rest. There is actually a huge variety in BL. Different body types, dynamics, and personalities, but you have to look beyond the surface to find them. If someone only reads what reinforces the ‘Petite uke × buff seme’ image, of course it’ll feel like that’s all there is. The diversity is out there, it’s just not always in the spotlight.
Nah you are definitely trivialising the issue by saying that it's just about personal preferences and aesthetics. Not only most ( if not all) artists draw the same feminine body type for ukes, I have seen several BLs that deliberately twinkify the ukes as the story goes along. For example Rainbow city (pretty recent I would say, won't you?) where the uke was drawn witj more stoic features, and with expressions that were self composed initially (even if his body type was on the smaller side) but as the story went on, his eyes were drawn to be wider, his chin and cheeks became even narrower and his expressions were made more vulnerable. In Half Line (also recentl I would say) the uke was also a pro athlete and a defender at that (defenders are usually taller and bulkier than strikers on actual realistic football since they require more stamina than strikers) but this uke is drawn as having very underdeveloped musculature and is noticeable shorter than the seme. In melting point, also recent, the uke was also a former pro player (if you haven't seen ice hockey players, they are one of the buffiest and with the most damaged faces, because that's just the nature of the sport) but the uke is drawn as much smaller and daintier as compared to the seme. Lol what aesthetics are you talking about when the artist can't even stick to their own chosen characterization?? In sincerely written stories that do not pander to fan service all the fucking time, characterization and plot dictate aesthetics, not the other way around. Because otherwise it's just surface level shit nowhere close to reality. But that's what these artists do, so what does that tell you? That it's not about fetishization of archetupes for fanservice? Or is all just accidental? If you believe that, good luck with the denial. Lol. True, these days we get to see some buff ukes even though they are much fewer in number, but that's not such a defense as you think it is. The two options are either twinky or buff with big tiddies as you call it, and both body types are fetishized. As for me assuming your preferences, you defend this type of generalization of bottoms, even denying what's clear to a blind person, so my deduction of your preferences isn't that far fetched. Not everything needs to said out loud, your preferences say a lot about you. Maybe I am wrong, and if I am, apologies, but your defending this type of shit goes against your grievances against my comment.
I have read a lot of titles on this site, i filter as per the themes and plots and never appearances, I have asked for a lot of recs and my asks always focus on good stories and strong narratives and I specifically mention to weed out stories that rely on trope heavy content, but these are the type of stories that are recced to me by the users here. if you are talking about some type of hidden Narnia type cupboard to get to these type of stories, than I am not aware.
Here are some examples from my reading list, which have *comparatively* balanced dynamics:
• One Room TA
• Unsleep
• The Boundary of Delusion
• The Sacred Serpent's Seduction
• Please Add Charcoal
• The 8th Failed Love
• Don't Mix Business with Pleasure!
• Our Sunny Days
• Guiding Hazard
• Who The Devil Is
• Forget Cleaning!!
• The Grown Dog Bullies Its Owner
• Chiguha Kuna Kisu
• Fancy Mate
• Osananajimi ja Gaman Dekinai
• Trapping The Foxy Doctor
• The First Love of the Sushi Restaurant Owner is a Mermaid
• Fake Romance
You can check these out! (๑•ㅂ•)و✧
I have read unsleep, didnt care for the story. The uke isnt feminine but the rest of it is pretty tropey. I loved Our sunny days, it was very sweet, I haven't found another bl manhwa like it and i tried.
I tried reading one room ta which also deals with a pretty popular trope in BL manhwa (main character obsessed with what they read in comics and they wanna try it out) but it didn't really appeal to me. I have read don't mix business with pleasure, and the uke isnt feminine but i found the story to be pretty common and unimpressive. Honestly it read like an inferior copy of semantic error (which I liked).
Thanks for the rest of your recs, i will check them out.
Exactly! there are plenty of stories that explore different dynamics and body types and feature more interesting, well-rounded characters,you just have to look for them.
Isn't that the point of the post? The reason you have to "dig deep and cudgle all types of archives to look for these different stories and characters" because the mainstream and popular content Do Not Have Them. And the reason for that is because these type of different stories don't get as much exposure because they don't sell as well. That's what fan servicing is about - selling out by making cookie cutter shit. You are basically proving my point.
Dude, you’re being way too aggressive for what was meant to be a mature and civil conversation.My point was simply that variety exists,you don’t need to bring in the whole “all ukes are twinks and it’s for fetishization” argument to make that case, because not everything is created for fetish purposes. I wasn’t even talking about mainstream BLs in the first place,I was referring to the general twink uke × buff seme trope.Somehow, you turned it into a personal attack by making assumptions that don’t belong in a respectful discussion.But well you do you man.
Lol but my language is pretty civil, I didn't abuse anyone or call anyone any names. Saying that your comment displays obvious denial isn't abusing you. I simply pointed out the discrepancies in your arguments, i gave pretty well reasoned arguments and actual examples that quantify and hence prove those arguments. You sound like you are just being salty because you don't have a good comeback to my arguments and the examples I gave. Hahahaha sorry but it's pretty funny, I don't mean to offend you but I have observed that most discussions regarding 'controversial' opinions go like this on these type of sites. Most users defend problematic stuff because they personally like it and not because of some objective observations or reasoning, and when confronted, often fizzle out in a very visibly patterned manner, just like here. But okay, if you want to take that direction, might as well. I think i understand what you trying to tell me in any case. Have a good day.
I tried to read shame application, found the story so dumb and MC so annoying, dropped it. Then I thought I would give Paid a chance since blurb looked interesting. I should have learnt from experience. They don't believe in writing a believable story or characters. No chaebol acts like that hapless dumbass MC, and his apparently big ass castle of a house has only one bed, fr? All of it is such asspull. Their stories are akin to a toddler drawing on a sheet. Draw random points on paper and connect them any which way they find convenient and call it a story. Dropped Paid, fuck that type of writing.
lmaoo its just pwp
I hate the kind of writing where the writer assumes their readers are stupid and will be okay with whatever crap they regurgitate.
wow this just unlocked a memory in me. i've had 3 of their works, peach love, shame&application, and paid, in my "want to read" for ages now but never could get started because i always click off after a couple chapters. i finished youjin but cant remmeber none about it. and i have payback on-hold rn. this author has a lot of misses for me too.
Oh go for payback. Samk thankfully cancels out the incompetence of Fujoking
I don’t think they assume they are stupid. It’s just for gooners
Even pwp can be written without making a complete mockery of storytelling. For example, full volume. Or even Door. If you are going to choose to make content for gooners ,maybe choose a more suitable plot. If your story ( or the lack of it) is becoming an obstacle to gooning themes, what's the point? But well, what do I know.
You don’t need a good plot to goon lol. Tho I didn’t really find the stories interesting
For my cousin who has never read this type of content before. Requirement - well written. Preferably drama, romance, and comedy. Heavy themes are also fine, but no asspull plot or gratuitous smut or non con. Plot heavy and character driven. Thanks!
Cheese In The Trap
Melt Bless You
Haru No Noroi
Hotaru No Yomeiri
Maybe meant to be
Thanks
oml mb the second & fourth are ongoing
I wanted to put this in the comment section asking for the worst takes but I wanted this to have more visibility so here it is. This user said that what you read doesn't affect what you believe. Sorry Descartes, Jyotibarao Phule, B.R. Ambedkar, Virginia Woolf, Immanuel Kant, Shakespeare, Mary Shelley, Anne Frank and others who literally revolutionized and changed the entire world with their writings.
They also said this, I am just gonna copy paste it here - "Something I'd add is that the argument that "what you read influences what you believe" is as obsolete as saying "videogames cause violence", like it might be true for unsupervised children but they shouldn't have access to that kinda content in the first place, and if they do you got the neglectful parents to blame, not the content itself for existing".
There are literally peer reviewed studies on how violent video games can increase in aggression in teens and make them more desensitized to irl violence. Just google it. While I agree that parental figures need to keep track of what their teens are being exposed to, if you put the entire onus on them to protect their children from forces much much bigger than them, you are simply falling for the deception capitalism has customised for you, giving you the illusion of choice. "Violent video games are designed to be engaging by leveraging psychological principles that tap into basic human motivations and reward systems." Do you even know what kind of money and resources they throw at researchers and psychologists who go deep into human psychology to tap into the forces that makes video games more engaging? Do you have any idea how many focus groups and surveys are conducted to find the nerve by pressing on which, they can make something that holds your attention so thoroughly, so much so that players die on their seats playing these games for hours on end? Like dude, just say you like fetish and rape porn, and you don't wanna be held accountable for it, you don't want to be made to feel guilty about it because you know what you like and read is problematic, don't beat around the bush, like this is such a transparently weak argument lol. No one's buying it. At least no one who has even the slightest idea about how the world works.
And this doesn't just apply to video game companies but all sorts of corporate structures, all the big advertising agencies and marketing agencies bleed money on research and surveys before they even think about launching a product.
To shift the entire blame on parents and not these companies that take advantage of your insecurities and weak points and real life problems is just so naive
Capitalists create a deficit and then supply the product and make money and people fall for for it too, because consumerism equals instant gratification and dopamine.
The argument that it's solely on parents to keep a check on their kids and not the game companies is the same as the government telling you to religiously recycle to save the planet but letting the corporates pollute entire oceans, create landfills as big as your hometown and employ child slaves to go through your toxic waste. And You. Fall. For. It. And then you don't listen to any counterpoints because again, you don't want to be made to feel guilty about your links and fetishes.
Dont even think that your precious pornhwas are devoid of the effects of capitalism. It's everywhere and only a naive fool would think otherwise. Every trend you follow online, every hashtag created by these people, every word they say is designed to manipulate and deceive you, and it's subliminal and insidious, you are getting affected by it without even realizing how.
The reason why discussions on problematic content is brought up again and again on these sites is because it bothers people, the same people for whom these products are made and targeted at. The same people who are deeply offended by this fetishization and commodification of rape (because that's what it is) because it is counterintuitive and goes against their self preservative instincts as women in a patriarchal world.
I SAY MORE AND MORE READERS SHOULD HAVE THIS DISCUSSION AND HAVE IT EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY IF NEED BE. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL YOU YOU CANT. FUCK. THAT. NOISE. BRING MORE NUANCED PERSPECTIVES AND RESEARCH ORIENTED MATERIAL. SATURATE THE FORUMS.
Just do it in a civilized manner and don't tell people to off themselves, no matter what opinion you hold. You aren't chimps in a cage. The capitalists would disagree but for the sake of the argument, let's say that.
This is just my personal opinion that I'd like to add, any form of media that is consume constantly, while it may not change your belief, they leave an impression on you, no matter how small or insignificant it is. And if you continue to consumed or fed said media, eventually, you got influenced, normalized, or desensitized. This is why propaganda and marketing works wonder. So yeah, what you read can actually affect you in someways that maybe even ourselves do not realized.
I think calling out problematic behaviour depicted even in fiction media is necessary for those who are unable to separate fiction from reality, and to not be normalized by it. So yeah, please do keep pointing out any problematic depiction from the story you read in the comments, make it a discussion, to serve as a constant reminder to every reader, so it won't be normalized, or worse, glorified.
I second this! I hope the people who read and defend rape fetish yaoi and shotacon with arguments like “it’s just fiction, not reality,” and then go as far as mocking the victims and telling others to kill themselves for criticizing it, understand this basic truth: fiction has always influenced reality. Stories shape our thoughts, normalize behaviors, and impact our perception of what’s acceptable,especially when consumed regularly and without reflection. Dismissing the impact of media, especially one that glamorizes sexual violence or pedophilia, is not only irresponsible but harmful.This site is full of those problematic content that's accessible to minors, even though they shouldn’t be here in the first place. Since we can’t completely prevent that access, it’s essential that these kinds of stories are openly criticized. I always tell minors to stay away from content that glamorizes rape or pedophilia, because their brains are still developing. Repeated exposure to these narratives can lead to believing damaging myths like “victims enjoy abuse” or “falling in love with your abuser is romantic.” and desensitises serious topic like rape or pedophilia.and that’s not just fiction,it’s distortion of real world harm.
I’ve seen how some readers become so desensitized to rape that they harass anyone who criticize it. They harass people,and when can't prove their point they resort to lying, twist words, and even go as far as mocking survivors who are simply venting or expressing their views about how it's wrong. When criticism of fictional content feels like a personal attack, that’s a sign something has gone deeply wrong. Defending these works with aggression doesn’t make the content less harmful,it only shows how normalized it has become.Criticism is not censorship.It’s necessary to protect vulnerable readers and push back against media that romanticizes abuse.i know some victims read these stories that glamorize rape to cope with their trauma but they deserve better spaces to heal,ones that don’t exploit their trauma as fetish content. These conversations should happen often, because silence only protects harmful narratives. If ppl care about real issues like rape or pedophilia they need to stop pretending that “it’s just fiction” is a good enough excuse to enjoy something that romanticize it.To be clear, I’m not against fiction that explores dark or uncomfortable topics, as long as it does so with care, nuance, and an understanding of the weight those subjects carry. Stories can portray rape or abuse without glorifying or romanticizing it. The problem lies with content that turns trauma into fantasy, fetish, or entertainment without regard for how it affects readers,especially minors and victims.
I want to add one more thing: just because a story is labeled "fiction" doesn’t mean it exists in a vacuum. If fiction can inspire love, empathy, or courage, then it can absolutely also reinforce harmful stereotypes and normalize toxic behaviors. When people say, “it’s just a story,” they often ignore the social and psychological impact of repeated themes. If a narrative constantly blurs the line between consent and coercion or paints abusive dynamics as romantic, it’s not harmless. The more these tropes get consumed uncritically, the more they embed themselves into how people especially minors understand relationships, sex, and power. So yes, these discussions must be had relentlessly, with nuance, research, and empathy, until creators and platforms take responsibility, and until people stop confusing valid critique with an attack on their personal identity. But I know this is literally useless,and i am saying this from my personal experience, talking to them is like talking to a brick wall
Totally agree with your comment. Publishers push this type of media on readers much more blatantly now, earlier this type of content was mostly engaged with in underground spaces and wasn't as accessible as it is now. Porn has been existing since ancient times, but the right type of mindset is needed to engage with this type of media, and on an appropriate platform. This type of media sells because it titillates the senses and engages with people's hidden desires and urges that they cannot share in public spaces or without anonymity and that's understandable, but that's exactly why it needs the right type of platform to be exhibited on. People need to be kept accountable because these are very complex themes and concepts, and age inappropriate for minors that roam these sites. I am talking about media that actually delves into these themes mindfully and responsibly, not the consumerist trash that is paraded around in the name of individual expression.
Absolutely. I have been given this kind of response myself - dude it's just a story.
when I reject that understanding, they tell me to get off the comment section if I only have 'negative' things to say. lol. Like the audacity and the entitlement on them as if they are the rulers of the comment section and anyone who doesn't conform to their low standards needs to step out. Lol. I never back down however, I keep it civilized but I do tell them off in no uncertain terms. Their grand attempts at intimidation are so ridiculous and they are so unaware of it, it's kinda cute.
Thankfully, I have had some successful discussions where the other person apologized for their insensitive or misinformed remarks. It's rare but it does happen.
I used to somewhat get the argument but after realizing how I'm always angry at shitty stories, I see how these dumb fictional stories get me irl. Like why am I personally affected by this dumbass story? It's just fiction.
The most surface level way fiction has affected reality is after you finish reading a feel good story, do you feel good? If you read a depressing story, do you feel sad after finishing? If you read a story full of annoying characters and concept, do you feel mad? Your emotional state can change based on what fictional story you're reading (and watching and that is the POINT of fiction is to affect you irl, otherwise why would anyone ever pick up a romantic, thrilling, action packed, or tragedy story to consume?) and this is just surface level stuff. The bare minimum way you can tangibly see how fiction does impact real life. So all that other crazy stuff like consuming problematic rape can definitely affect the emotional state of the mind the more you read and consume those topics. People who dont realize this are incredibly ignorant and naive.
True. I think this argument - what you read doesn't influence you personally, comes from the fact that the readers that say it don't really process what they read and simply consume for instant gratification. They are the kinda consumers that capitalism wants to inculcate because it's advantageous for them.
No introspection no discernment no realisation no confrontation no accountability no rejection just mindless consumption
exactlyyyyy, I was really shocked when I first knew there were lots of minors in this site, and with the current BL scene where the famous BL manhwa are unfortunately full of SA and violence, I think it's really important to tell the minors, like heyy, even in bl, this ain't normal and okay. If there are no people who point this thing out, these minor or those who are newly exposed to BL are going to think that, these kind of problematic behaviour is acceptable in BL, WHICH IS NOT
true, while I understand that most people who came here just would like to have fun and read the content here. It never hurts to be a little bit more critical while reading these stories once in awhile.
I was, and still am, getting harassed by those rape enjoyers and defenders. One's a minor and the other’s an incel, lmao. One of them said I have Stockholm syndrome for constantly criticizing rape story, and the other told me to stop taking my meds, kill myself, and harm myself to "get rid of the trauma."
And the funniest part? They’re not even a little bit of apologetic about it. All of this just because I called out their favourite rape story. I’m actually on the verge of dying, ngl
what the hellyyyyy
I'm trying to understand why do they take these comments personally when it's not directed at them, and then proceed to harassed you. This is exactly the point why discussion and self-awareness of what you're consuming would actually be useful.
Liking a story does not mean giving a free pass for the problematic aspect of it. You can still like something while admitting there's a flaw to it. So them practically attacking you when you're pointing out something that are clearly IMMORAL, need to take a step back and do self-reflection.
+1 to everything you said thanks for putting this here
Everything else is loading, not a connectivity issue then. Can't see the icons and chapters aren't loading either. What's going on?
Same, most photos, chapters aren't loading, I thought it was my network issue :(
Thought it would be better in the morning. It wasn't...
Realistic and nuanced writing please. No stereotypical weak helpless dumb uke, no manipulative asshole seme. Someone suggested Smells like green spirit and honestly couldn't care for it, the writing was glitchy and the ending was egregious. Star struck was sooo good and haven't found another friends to lovers BL like it. Pls pls pretty pls.
Try Sasaki to Miyano. Shounen AI and I loved it
Idk if it's similar to what ur looking for tho ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~
try Spinach Bouquet or Green Apple Paradise
Not necessarily about school life. What I mean is - Realistic plot, well written realistic full fledged characters, slow burn (meaning good development), mature and nuanced, no gratuitous smut, no rape, no forced miscommunication trope, no asspull coincidences trope, no dumb weak helpless agencyless twinky uke, no asshole manipulative seme, realistic intimate scenes are fine.
https://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/nagahama_to_be_or_not_to_be/
https://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/smells_like_green_spirit/
https://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/koimonogatari/ (idk if this will ever get completed tho)
https://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/hidamari_ga_kikoeru/
https://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/kimi_wa_natsu_no_naka/
Expected better from Chaepali, feeling disappointed.
Spoil it for me pls so I'd know if it's worth
MC is a 40 year old dumbass who acts like five. Thirty chapters in and readers still can't tell who the ML is. Every single character is sus, none of them is likeable and the writer keeps inserting random characters who all want to bang the MC but without justification. The plot is asspull, there are multiple mystery subplots and the writer just introduces another one without any context. The writing is so bad, it will confuse you and frustrate you because there's no resolve. It's about occult and cannibalism btw. Illuminati type mystery. But very badly executed. It's not worth it.
I read the comms in it and says there's like different lives?? Kinda like multiverse?? I remembered I read this but I stopped lol. Now idk I want to bec sounds convoluted
dont let @prettymensupremacy hear u say this (￣∇￣")
Who?
As in with English translation