I just can't do it. I cannot READ this. I get that it's fictional, and that it's also a ya...

Haha, yeah
I felt that way with A Thousand Splendid Suns,
Now it's my absolute Favorite novel

Mine was "Of Human Bondage" (Maugham). :)

I'm sure I had this with a novel or another, but when I read your post, something else came to my mind and that's the last two episodes of season 1 of "Outlander". Those who have seen them, know what I'm referring to. I had read the book, I knew what was coming, but watching it, made for such uncomfortable viewing that I am unsure I will continue watching the show. In the book the events were far less explicit, but still had the desired effect of driving the plot. The show literally bathed in every gory, cruesome aspect of it. The showrunners said it was necessary, but the book was proof that it wasn't. And it left me with a very sick feeling that a lot of it was done for shock value. Following in the footsteps of "that scene" on Games of Thrones one or two weeks prior, it left a very bad taste in my mouth.

I don't mind rape in most mangas because it is usually the metaphor for something entirel different. Someone here (sorry, can't remember who it was, but it was one of the regulars) explained it beautifully a while ago. A metaphor of some sort directed at young girls/woman to not feel guilty about their sexual desires and instincts, a metaphor for sexual awakening, even. Maybe the person who wrote it can post it again.

Anyway, this is completely different from the way rape is used in a lot (far too many) TV shows these days, where it has become a "thing", a device for shock value. And that makes it very hard for me to continue with a show. So I can relate to the feeling of not wanting to continue following a story because it get's too hard at times.

I have to say, though, I never felt that way about Viewfinder, because whatever you through at Akihito, he prevails, he bends like a willow, but he bounces back. In a way he is probably the strongest character, mentally, despite everything that has happened to him. He also has the ability to forgive (both Fei and Asami) and move on, which means he can free himself of the emotional baggage and move on. So while yes, he has had moments, times of humilation, he is a born survivor and with every turn comes back a stronger man. And I think within the story we are at a crossroads, where - after Akihito's recent epiphany, I am hoping to see Asami come to the full realisation that he is not solely Akihito's protector, but that Akihito is willing and has the ability to protect him in return. That he is in fact someone that he, Asami, can lean on.

Sorry about this "novel", I just started writing and couldn't stop for some reason. :D Is it full moon? ^^

I feel uncomfortable too when the plot device of the rape in tv series is used and abused only to shock the audience (I remember The Tudors and The Borgias- but in their case, the use of that plot device had good reasons). To tell you the truth I didn't feel uncomfortable in that way reading Finder. Your "novel" is good. :)

Of course he was treated like an object because that's what villains and kidnappers do. Sheesh. But he didn't act like an object, and that's the part you are missing. He didn't sit in a corner like a lump. He fought like a tiger any time he had a chance. Not only that, but he moved Fei Long by his capacity to empathize even with the man who had kidnapped and was raping him. Through his generosity of spirit, Akihito changed Fei Long's life for the better. That is frickin' huge.

And of course the Hong Kong incident pushed him to the breaking point. But as you point out, he didn't break. That's kind of the point of his character arc and kind of the point of having a story at all. If stuff doesn't happen, there really isn't much of a story.

And so he needed help in a situation in which the odds were vastly stacked against him. What did you expect him to do? How about admiring the fact that once again, he took every opportunity to fight back, to resist. Look at what happened on the boat. He sees a guy shot in front of him, is dragged off yet again to who knows where by who known whom, people who speak a language he doesn't understand, who beat the shit out of him and rip his clothes off and threaten to rape him. Oh and then one of them steps on his penis until he pees blood, tries to strangle him and then just when he thinks he's safe, the guy takes a pot shot at him.

Now, this is after months of being held captive in a foreign country and repeatedly raped and then going through all of this other stuff in a very short period of time. Dude has been put through the grinder. But instead of cowering in a corner, he gets up, goes after the guy, STEALS BACK HIS OWN RANSOM and after being shot, uses it to broker peace between Asami and Fei Long. He's hardly a damsel in distress. Asami only skated in there at the end to put the bandages on.

So Asami can be dismissive at times, but it was Asami who understood better than anyone what Akihito needed in order to find his way back to himself. Not only does Asami "get" Akihito, his desire for him is for those ineffable qualities far more than for his body.

I don't know. Certainly, this manga isn't for everyone, but I'm having a hard time understanding why you kept reading past page 18 if you are this squeamish.

You know what, I understand... I often have to put a story down for a bit and calm down (or cry) before I can continue reading it. xD It's actually fairly common to try and stick with a story even though you have problems with it, because some part of it engrosses you - it either turns out for the better or for the worse, and in the latter case you might need to drop it, and that's perfectly fine. For example, there's a lot of people who dislike Caste Heaven but can't seem to stop reading it.

Also, there's no right or wrong. It's all opinion. Everyone has different limits and moral concepts. :)

What if she's discussing various opinions?

I think that your analysis of Akihito's personality is definitely on point in terms of depth and honesty, showing just how strong of a character he is. Like the other Anonymous up there (the one with the "novel", which was great btw) I also think Akihito is the gem of this story, showing just how much of a strong character he has.
I can see your point of view with Asami "getting" Akihito, however, when I was reading, I didn't see it as such. No big deal though, just different interpretations.
Looking at what you've said, I can understand your thinking.

There was nothing in the original post that invited discussion. She didn't get all about discussion until she saw the negative reaction the original post drew, at which point she did some quick backtracking.

Your novel is great, btw.
I like your opinion, and I can also agree that rape in tv shows are just getting more and more gruesome. I already have very strong opinions about rape. However, I have to throw them completely out the window when it come to yaoi!
I think the post that you mentioned earlier about how it being " a metaphor for something different" helps to water the impact of the act, making it easier to digest (because as you said, it's not always about being malicious, it can be about sexual awakening, desires, no shame, ect.)
I also agree that Akhito is really a blessing in this story, and "is the strongest character" he's my fav out of all the characters
I think the moon's definitely affecting me too!

Hi islander!...well you say you can feel the pain and desperation on your own skin...well i do too...and honesty thats oneof the few things that kept me reading this...different opinions i guess...

Lemme explain...its kind of like when you watch a sad movie...(dead poet society?) You re suddenly sad and think that cant be real its so sad...but then you also realize how epic it was and say its much better than the lame "and they lived happily ever after" type of thing.

For finder well its a matter of taste...but for me it ws their relationship that made me curious...
Yeah you said it akihito should hate asami...but thats not whats happening...it makes you think a lot...reading it carefully made me notice many things i dindt see the first time...
Like how asami pretends not to care for akihito,how he masks it with indifference and bad manners...how he seems to be in control even when he is not...

Then theres the most complicate but interesting part...for me at least...
Finder was supposed to be a one shot for s/m magazine...and sensei said in an interview that shed have atarted it in another way if she knew it was chaptered.
If you see past that...you still said the way akihito is treated doesnt suit you...
Well again for me its the opposite xD.
I know it sound stupid...but i see many reasons for why aki is infatuated with asami...of course thees a bit of sub/dom in their relationship...and thats what makes it interesting...how someone is able to submit to another just for the sake of love...
Never had a crush? Like when you think someones perfect and cant see any flaw but then...
Ye in these situations you dont think clearly...also many things asami says are just taunts...i love taunting my friends (male friends wouldnt do that to girls) and many times im even a bit too mean to them but i care a lot even if i do not show it.The same goes for asami he wont say i love you but he does...if you say it to him hed probably come off with a smartass remark.thats part of the character and him keeping his emotions hiddes is just a self defense.nand thats why i like this character so much.

I think it's pretty obvious that if I post something as a topic, I'm going to expect some disscussion? Hence, why, I'm disscussing this with others right now ╮(￣▽￣)╭
Yes, my post was vey opionated, so of course I expect responses.

I also think how rape is used makes a difference. I find that watching the TV GOT, the way rape is treated (and sensationalized) bothers me, but the way it is in GRRM's books does not. Of course, the TV show made one scene that I thought was seductive in the book into rape, makes another rape more sensationalistic and appealing to the male gaze, and the show adds more rapes that are not even arguably in the book. It's still fiction, but those rapes did make me personally stop enjoying the show. I still like the books.

Everyone has their own limits.

Did you by chance get to the part 'after' Hong Kong? Asami actually starts showing his emotions a little more at that point. He hides his feelings because he's used to people wanting him for his money/power and he doesn't know for a while that Aki wants him for who he is, not what he can get from him. Also, Asami is used to getting his was in EVERYTHING and thus feels he has the right to make Akihito do whatever he wants him to.
Personally I've read this manga several times and I'm looking forward to more of it simply because I enjoy the story.

When the rape plot device is used only for sensationalism, I get annoyed too. I'm still recovering from all the rapes in The Tudors and from the rape of the poor Lucrezia Borgia in The Borgias. *0*

Rape is not was never intended to give sexual pleasure. It was a weapon of war, used to spread terror and mayhem and a prize for the victor. It is considered a crime against humanity to rape some one. Ravishment to force someone into a sexual encounter by overwhelming them. Seduction being one method. Some times I think the mangas are trying to portray ravishment. (Some show out and out rape) They get seen as rape. That ravishment is seen as the first awakening to sexual desire. I;m not doing it myself,( he's making me do it).with an exp. lover is very attractive and hits a lot of buttons for a lot of females, the target audience. Being ravished frees the person from any quilt as to what is being done bec. hey he did it first. Even though I may have wanted to try handcuffed to the bed. I'm the good girl. I'm not the poster for the use of Rape in manga S/he did it better.

Yes, rape in RL is an awful crime, it has nothing to do with sexual pleasure or with lust. It's true that the portrayal of "the ravishment"frees the person from any guilt about their own sexual desires and can be so appealing for many woman in the world. I'm not so fond about the rape/ or ravishment as a plot device, but I love noir stories. When this story turned from being some kind of "Justine" (De Sade) to a noir story, with all the beautiful stereotypes of this kind of stories, it took my soul. :)

I like noir. Sometimes I also like reading about some BDSM-style games that might look like rape if both parties had not agreed. The problem is that in many mangas, both parties really didn't agree, but the scene could be kind of hot if it were role play, (and the survivor seems to find it that way too). I would be happier if they had agreed to the game in advance, I can see the reader as sort of agreeing to the play and the author skipping that part for the fantasy of it--as if the agreement starts in an unwritten prologue and it comes from the reader (who can stop at any time). That doesn't make me feel better about what I think of as sensationalized fictional rapes where the survivor is simply used but those usually are shown as bad things. Sometimes there are very good stories where the lines are blurry or bad thing happen but I still like the story. So I guess in the broadest sense, I like stories with rape if I like the way the author and the plot treat it (or the plot is good enough to keep me anyway).

Ilona Andrews' Kate Daniels character explains it once (I forget which book) when she is talking to a guy who is into her BF, Andrea, about romance novels. The guy says he can never be like those guys in the novels because they are jerks. Kate says something to the effect that if the guy tried to take Andrea's brother hostage in order to force Andrea to be with him, Andrea would kill him. (Andrea is an expert shot). But if the guy wanted to put on a pirate costume once in a while when they were fooling around and say various lusty lines from the novel, Andrea probably would not hate it. I think that's the way I feel about "ravishment". I don't romanticize rape in real life, and no one "asks" for it in real life, but it can be fun to play in controlled situations for a short time hen there is actually consent and some boundaries.

And sometimes I like messy characters. For example, I ship Gallavich on Shameless--two violent f*cked up characters who sometimes go too far but seem to really have something. Here's a highlight video from Youtube for anyone who likes that kind of thing (it's gritty but not noir):

https://youtu.be/jD_JewYUYTg

The violence is absolutely wrong, but I still like these two.

Gritty, thanks, reminds me of the writing of Kano and the Bun charc. (not as dark). Ravishment is a long standing plot tool. The Greek tales. Zeus and the rest of the Gods used it a lot to get their way( seducing humans) the myths , some where pretty twisted. 12th Night by Shakespeare( the one where they all get lost in the forest). It has been used sine man fist began telling stories.

It looks interesting, thanks for the link. :)