im like 16 and all i care about is eating sleeping, getting an A on my tests and gravity f...

uhm this is a yaoi,you know what that means right? The ukes are men not women,moreover there are many strong female characters in other mangas but this is a Yaoi (which means the main characters are men). Plus I hate it when political correctness starts taking over personal creativity. A character shouldn't be made in order to be used as a political idea, if the author has a story to tell she or he should be free to tell their own story. That's the beauty of art(only during oppressive regimes dictators would force artists to create stories that promoted an ideology) . Also women don't need fictional characters to empower them,we have real women who have made history.

I like strong characters and I usually find weak ones annoying, but I think you are confused about the purpose of this genre. It's erotica. I like the stories and the characters, but I am not looking for role models here. I like female characters in general, but the women in yaoi tend to annoy me. The reason is, I don't read yaoi looking for female characters. I read yaoi to see hot men in many roles. I many also like plots and character growth and that shit, but let's not underestimate the fact that I want to see mostly hot male characters.

Would I like to see strong female characters in mainstream manga (more than there are already)? Sure, why not? If you want to write manga and stories with strong female characters, go right ahead--I may like them. Outside of manga, I like urban fantasy novels that have strong female characters, and I can recommend some if you are looking for those kinds of stories and do not know where to find them.

But don't go to a vegetarian restaurant and complain that there's no meat. If you want meat, go to the BBQ beef place down the road. Or maybe Yaoi should be the beef in this analogy--IDK. What I mean is, mystery novels have mysteries, fantasy novels have magic, and yaoi has fictional male characters playing out fantasies aimed at a primarily female audience.

Wow. I like you!

Yup I think they should include fan girls. Or like have a strict principle who's a woman and gives everyone detentions. You know what I never see in any erotica manga is a threesome with a guy between a chick and a dude behind him. If anyone can recommend a manga like that please tell me :DD

I think you are looking for hentai. Try this: http://www.hbrowse.com/browse/grouping/threesome_(1_female)

Kiss, you said it in a nut shell. there are strong female charac. in mangas Ghost in Shell. being one of them, The Next Gate( a new one), Hanzou no mon(an old one) Naruto (an old one) are some examples. That have strong females in them.I don't read yaio to see roles models. No one should. This is a fantasy. the sex is , the relationships are the worlds are. Empowerment of women? is a real life matter. Women have power in real life, just look around you.Leave the P.C out of it.

thank you ^^

"Also women don't need fictional characters to empower them, we have real women who have made history."

*clappingsohard!*

Your comment is priceless!

I'm just amazed that the past few days have conditioned us to bite at any criticism of the work like Pavlov's mice.

It's hypocritical to say that yaoi is not for empowering women when many of you have argued that it is (especially the rape vs fantasy people and the empowerment of women's sexuality by allowing women to fap to men; seemingly gay but somehow not recognized as gay; being objectified and violated) Someone even wrote a thesis on it.

http://scholarworks.gsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1027&context=anthro_theses

Yaoi is made to combat the male gaze in hentai. This whole violation of another group is allowed because of the reason "We're women and we need to objectify men to create a safe space for women away from the objectification of women"


that is why there is something very weird when one recommends a hentai site (rife with the male gaze) just because someone points out the fact that the yaoi that is supposed to empower women fall short on empowering women.


So, the message now is, "Hooray for sexual freedom.... But you women must still be meek and be invisible to society because any more than that you are loud rude bitches that only deserve 2 pages of our time."

The fact that Yuri exist is also unsettling with the fact that its mostly (mostly) fan service to men and thus less favored. Women are objectified in mangas for men and are not mentioned and even underrated in mangas for women.

http://www.aminoapps.com/page/anime/9370328/anime-is-there-gender-equality

https://illogicalzen.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/the-role-of-female-characters-in-anime-does-it-create-or-maintain-inequality/

Here i like how the media can never strike a balance. Its either a patriarchy or a matriarchy but the patriarchy is more compared to the matriarchy.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SlidingScaleOfGenderInequality

"Also women don't need fictional characters to empower them, we have real women who have made history."

Ever heard about how fiction influences reality? Fiction does turn us to see one thing as good and another bad

I'd reccomend Gintama and Kill La Kill. That moment where a work that showed nudes after nudes sexually empowered women and reduced objectification better than Yaoi that has little to no women.


This is my opinion basically. I don't expect to change anyone's opinions. Just to clarify.


Just one last question. In yaoi rape, should the seme be hot or be pot-belly old men? What would you say to people who like pot-belly old men raping cute teens?

Someone asked for an erotic manga with a MMF threesome, so I suggested hentai. I was not suggesting hentai as a place of female empowerment. I was just talking about different types of erotica. Since Yoai focuses on naked men, if someone wants o throw in a naked woman, Hentai is a good bet. Of course, if someone really wants to see a specific scene, she or he may have to write the story or draw the manga.

Arguing that Yoai should have more empowering female characters is like arguing science fiction should have more magic. It's simply not a main part of the genre, and fans who want to read different types of stories should look to other genres. Many people provided examples of strong and complex female characters in other types of mangas. I also mentioned I could recommend UF stories with strong female characters if someone wanted to find some. It's simply a matter of respecting the norms of the genre when you try to find the type of story you want to read.

People read yoai for different reasons. Some people may read yaoi to avoid the male gaze, and others may just like to see hot men. There is nothing wrong with reading it just for hot fantasy men.

Whether or not Yaoi is empowering is a different and more complex question than if there are female role models in yaoi. The theory about escaping male gaze is interesting, but it's not a manifesto. No one has to conform to it. Yaoi's primary purpose is erotica involving fictional male characters. It is usually made by women and aimed at a mostly female audience. It's not meant to represent any real men or real people, and it is not a political movement. If many women find it empowering in some way, good for them--but the primary purpose remains the same: sexual fantasies involving fantasy male characters acting the way many women would like to see them act.

As for your last question, personally, I like all the men to be hot--but there are some people who like to include old men and fat men and other men generally considered to be less attractive. Such characters function either as villains or as a submission and humiliation kink. There are also people who have a thing for old men, or fat men, or old, fat men. To each her own.

There is a 50% chance that Pavlov's mice were killed by Schroedinger's pit bull, but we will not know for certain until someone checks.

But seriously, this time, I am not being sensitive (or "biting"). I respond that way anytime someone suggests adding more female characters to yaoi. I like stories about women--but not in yaoi. When I see a yaoi tag, I want to see hot men. That's the whole point of yaoi.

I like fantasy books, but sometimes I am in the mood for a mystery. If I go to the "mystery" shelf, pick up a book marked "mystery", and the cover and the blurb indicate it is a mystery--then I expect a mystery. If I open it up and find out most of the book is actually about a wizard fighting a dragon, I will be disappointed--not because I hate fantasy, but because it's not what I was in the mood for. If the story is exceptionally well written and blends or defies genres, I may like it anyway--but chances are I will slam the book down and write a scathing review online warning people this book is tagged and marketed the wrong way.

Friend. Budica fought the Romans after they killed her husband and raped her and her daughters. she was a real woman . she was one of the reasons Rome fell. cxi cxi Chin. Empress ruled outright(rare) Ida Lupino film director 1940's. Jpn. Edo period. had an all women fighter unit men were afraid of them. My point is that women, in real life , empower themselves.Is's women who write yaio.is it? that's the definition

In a sense, the mangakas who create yaoi are examples of real "empowered' women because they create the stories they want to instead of the stories a "proper" lady should write. Both Yaoi and mm erotica aimed a primarily female audience started because women started to make such stories for each other as DJs or slash fanfic. Publishers started to sell such stories when they saw an audience existed. BL and slash were not designed, packaged, and sold to women--they are something that women started to make and that became monetized later (and that's okay because we all have to eat).

There are sex-positive feminist (like me). I think when some feminist find themselves agreeing with extreme political and religious conservatives on issues involving art, literature, and suppressing freedom of expression, it may be time to question what is going on. Of course, different feminists have different ideas, and people can be right about some things (e.g. equal pay for equal work) and dead wrong on others (for example, Susan B. Anthony didn't think black men should have the right to vote). I understand how anyone could read all my comments on the mangas I am into and think that the lack of female characters has taught me that women should not speak their minds.

To AG, when you have to extremes both merging pushing they are the two sides of the same coin. seeking control. I shed my labels . I no longer check any boxes on any forms. I just write human being. fem. movement started (in Eng. and the U.S) in the 188o's. It took time.Look at the changes now (and the laws). it;s not needed any more.(in the us) That is why they hooked up with the other grp.