Unpopular opinon

Anoni Grrl August 26, 2016 12:55 pm

First, let me say I love Finder and I know the difference between fiction and real life. Now, let me confess that I find it a tiny bit annoying that Aki still accepts sexual harassment and sexual assault from just about everyone without blinking an eye. Why is Asami often seen as worse than the rest of the men in this story?

I know many people didn't like the first S&M chapter (though I did) and that YA has said she would have started their relationship differently if she had known how long the story would run. But then Asami would be the only person who isn't harassing or assaulting Aki--and in my mind, he's the only one I want to do those things (with the possible exception of Fei). I know "ravishment" is problematic and romanticizing rape bothers many people, but honestly, I think it's complex and plays many roles--and I like S&M. I get we all like different things. And in RL, of course, you need consent and such roleplays would need safewords and rules.

Constant non-romanticized sexual harassment and assault strike me as worse because it is unfeeling. It's sensationalizing objectification in a way that is a personal turn-off. I get that it's still fiction and it also plays many different roles, but it is so not my thing. If I were queen of the universe, I'd discourage that (not that I would actually tell someone else what to do with her story).

So yes, hypermasculine Asami is a trope that's unrealistic and done to death, and ravishment is problematic--but I still love Asami. I know it would be unhealthy in real life. But what about all the sensationalism of people who don't have feelings for Aki constantly objectifying him and pushing unwanted sexual activities? I mean, it's not a major issue for me, but why does Asami get all the heat while a host of creepy guys get a pass?

Responses
    Reality bites August 26, 2016 11:55 pm

    This is a part of the manga indus. as horror films are a part of the moive indus. Love hotels filled a need for people with little privacy. Walls are thin in Jpn. homes. That need is dying out as places are built better. not all people in Jpn. read porn. or watch A.V. films.there are a lot of diff. types of manga with no sex in them. they have changed their policies on pedo. esp. the laws. and the showing of children ect. getting the idol industry to follow and getting public out of the private/public mindset is another prob.Not every one is abusing kids. at one time they did not have the right laws in place, now they do.

    Anoni Grrl August 27, 2016 12:35 am
    I don't think that Akihito "accepts" sexual harassment, but sensei writes the villains as twisted and Akihito as a very forgiving person. Since I'm not Japanese, I'm not sure what the cultural significance is, ... @Anonymous

    Oh,I iknow it's just part of how sensei writes...but it still seems to me that Aki kind of accepts it and goes along with it rartehr than make a fuss (not so much with Mikhail and Yuri, since he couldn't--but certainly with Sakazaki). I know part of Aki's charm is that he sees thebest in people and nothing gets him down--but damn, couldn't he just once tell them it's crap? It's like he doesn't even know it's wrong to let people treat him that way.

    Reality bites August 27, 2016 2:51 am

    I know what you mean, the charac.s some times do things that don't make sense.

    Romanceisdead69 August 27, 2016 7:09 am
    This is a part of the manga indus. as horror films are a part of the moive indus. Love hotels filled a need for people with little privacy. Walls are thin in Jpn. homes. That need is dying out as places are bu... @Reality bites

    I didn't imply all people in Japan read porn, watch AV, abuse children. Just want to clear that up right now!!!!
    Yes there are 'controls' and stuff on explicit material with children (flimsy as ass controls) - but I am saying what I literally see when I am there, in Japan. And Loli and Shota are just as bad - just because it's not photographic, does not mean it's OK to use images of children in that way (in my opinion) that's what I'm saying about it. They can 'put laws in place' all they like. There is still a massive problem in Japan for sexualising children.

    Romanceisdead69 August 27, 2016 7:14 am
    Oh,I iknow it's just part of how sensei writes...but it still seems to me that Aki kind of accepts it and goes along with it rartehr than make a fuss (not so much with Mikhail and Yuri, since he couldn't--but c... Anoni Grrl

    Maybe the larger part of the audience enjoy the whole 'damsel in distress' vibe that Akihito can give off sometimes??? By now it's just lather-rinse-repeat with him; rush head first into a situation, get molested or raped, get rescued by Asami and his magic cure-all penis. I mean, just the fact that Akihito is so eager for sex after these things happen to him is so jacked up in itself : /

    Reality bites August 27, 2016 9:44 am

    Rommy I was not implying you said any of those things I was putting in a pre disclaimer just in case for the both of us.

    Romanceisdead69 August 27, 2016 10:40 am
    Rommy I was not implying you said any of those things I was putting in a pre disclaimer just in case for the both of us. @Reality bites

    Thank you (⌒▽⌒)

    Anoni Grrl August 27, 2016 3:00 pm
    Maybe the larger part of the audience enjoy the whole 'damsel in distress' vibe that Akihito can give off sometimes??? By now it's just lather-rinse-repeat with him; rush head first into a situation, get molest... Romanceisdead69

    Probably. I do like the parts with the magic cure-all penis.

    Nnene August 27, 2016 6:29 pm
    I didn't imply all people in Japan read porn, watch AV, abuse children. Just want to clear that up right now!!!!Yes there are 'controls' and stuff on explicit material with children (flimsy as ass controls) - b... Romanceisdead69

    Honestly, seeing as the vast majority of the lolicon readers are 15 to 21 years old, I wouldn't worry so much. Besides, correlation does not equal causation. Not every lolicon reader has interest at real kids. They seem to mostly just fetish purity (a big part of Japan's culture), and lolicons tend to be quite irrealistically perfect in that aspect, on top of being stylized drawings. Plus people can enjoy it casually without being seriously into it.

    It really seems to me that a lot of the stigma surrounding lolicon is more cultural than moral. If you're banning something that doesn't even hurt anyone you're just invading liberties because you think it's icky.

    Besides, children are sexualized as well in the western world. There's no need for child porn for that to happen. We just live in an era where everything that could possibly be sexualized has been sexualized, and of course that's rubbing off quite bad on tweens. We have done a wonderful job as a society of sexualizing our youth in our own way. America really have spawned wonderful role models such as Beyoncé, Miley Cirus, Nicki Minaj and Rihanna, which affects pretty much all the other western countries. Being quite young, I sure have lived the full effects of that, being a tween whose sole worth was based on sexiness, was encouraged or expected to dress and behave sexually etc. And what is considered sexual here is far from looking or acting "pure"...

    Back to the topic though, while Japan is less sexually repressed than the western world, it is more socially oppressed. Japan has little taboo on homosexual behavior or fantasies, but has a huge problem with the idea of same-sex relationships. Not because they think it's sexually deviant, but because it's socially deviant.

    The same can be applied for lolicon.

    A little bit of history, just to explain the questions you raised before: During the Edo period, men and women alike would look at “shunga,” a form of sexually explicit images that depict heterosexual and homosexual relationships, but also sex with animals and even vegetables. Shunga images were an integral part of people’s lives, bought not only for fun, but also for educational purposes. Meanwhile, homosexual romances were frequently depicted in kabuki plays, which proved popular with all ages and sexes.

    However, this openness gradually changed after the Meiji Restoration of 1868, as Japanese society grew increasingly Westernized and its system of morality, both sexual and otherwise, fell under the influence of Christianity. Of course, national traits that have been cultivated over centuries don’t change instantly. Instead, Japanese people came to a compromise, where on the surface they would see sex-related topics or activities as an embarrassing taboo, but inside they would enjoy them. The similarity with the well-known concepts of “honne” and “tatemae” — one’s real feelings and public front — is unmistakable.

    This explains why sex shops don’t get exposed, even though prostitution is illegal. While many of these shops are essentially selling sex, it’s tacitly permitted because they claim that they are just massaging customers. On the surface, it’s platonic; inside, however, it’s anything but.

    As for rape reporting, in Canada it's only 5% of it that goes reported (according to statistics Canada). This is caused by plenty of potential reasons, other than reputation ruining:
    - Feeling powerless
    - Shame
    - Self-Blame
    - Desire to move on
    - Belief that reporting wouldn't do any good
    - Not wanting to turn a family member
    - Effect on future relationships
    - Afraid of further damage from attacker
    - Afraid of the legal process
    - Knew the person and didn't want to destroy their life

    But most of all, if the prosecutor thinks they can't win a case, the police won't even arrest anyone. So most of the rapes reported do not get any real results. This is the same for Japan. This feeds in the "belief that reporting wouldn't do any good".

    So I'm not sure how much of it is that much culture related when it comes to rape reporting...

    Anoni Grrl August 27, 2016 7:03 pm
    Honestly, seeing as the vast majority of the lolicon readers are 15 to 21 years old, I wouldn't worry so much. Besides, correlation does not equal causation. Not every lolicon reader has interest at real kids. ... Nnene

    Lolicon by itself isn't a problem (for me) but when people actually grab female students on trains (which happens) it is no longer just fiction. I like Japanese culture overall, and I admit some people can get handsy in the US too, but it seems like it's more prevalent over there. I don't mean every Japanese person, just that the reletively few pervs seem to get away with it a lot. I do think that sometimes people say "It can't be helped" and put up with it instead of making it clear that unwanted sexual contact is unacceptable. Again, this happens in many places, including the US--but it seems like it happens frequently in Japan. I'm not trying to be alarmist or overstate anything, but I think culture does play a role in that kind of thing (though many culturees teach grils it's easier to stay quiet and try to avoid it than to call people out on it).

    And I hate when the US sexualized children (and we do).

    Nnene August 27, 2016 8:15 pm
    Lolicon by itself isn't a problem (for me) but when people actually grab female students on trains (which happens) it is no longer just fiction. I like Japanese culture overall, and I admit some people can get ... Anoni Grrl

    But groping in trains seems prevalent in Japan because they're so damn packed (depending on the hour, people are literally shoved in it until there's no space anymore), no? I mean, horny men in a cramped space and squeezed against cute women?

    It'd be much more prevalent as well in the western world if trains were as legendarily cramped.

    Sure the more timid Japanese women may not complain much, but let's be real, I'm not sure people fully understand how humiliating it would bee to admit you were sexually harassed in a crammed train full of strangers. I know the best I'd do would be to push them/kick them, but then again if it's all crammed I wonder how much that would be efficient aha. You can't get away! So let's say those hits you gave him with your elbow didn't phase him, and he's obviously probably stronger than you, what's left is screaming. But I know I probably wouldn't. I'd be too shocked and embarrassed for that. So what's left is waiting and at least hopefully nobody noticed.

    Then again, I feel like violent rape is much more prevalent in Western societies. In Japan you sure can get your share of gropers and sexual harassers, but without living in the fear of being violently raped and/or murdered.

    That's probably why groping is seen as a menace rather than a serious criminal offence back in Japan. They just feel less extremely threatened (of potential death/injuries) all around.

    Anoni Grrl August 27, 2016 10:32 pm
    But groping in trains seems prevalent in Japan because they're so damn packed (depending on the hour, people are literally shoved in it until there's no space anymore), no? I mean, horny men in a cramped space ... Nnene

    I had a profession back when I was in university who once grabbed a man's hand on the train, held it in the air, and shouted, "Is anyone missing a hand? I found this one on my ass!". I thought it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. The guy turned red and got off at the next stop. I think you can only do that if you think that the people on the train will take your side and not his--so it is cultural, but a wide-spread cultural problem. (I think most modern cultures make it hard for the girl to make that kind of fuss). I'd have to look up whether reports of rape are more prevelent here or Japan--beout if most rapes are unreported, how could we ever compare?

    To be fair, I take precuasions (self-defense classes when I was young, pepper spray key chian, Kubotan...etc.) but I don't live in fear. I have survived attempts by strangers when I was alone in Europe, and I survived some very bad bad relatioenship choices (and I think family and bad relationships are a much greater threat to most Western women than stranger rapes--but I'd have to go do research to prove that). The Ted Bundies of the world make the news, but thankfully they are actually only a tiny percentage of rapes. Most rape survivors knew and at least somewhat trusted the rapist. That's what makes it so hard to report.

    Reality bites August 27, 2016 11:18 pm

    We don't know what the vast maj. of readers of any thing is. You can't take a poll and expect honest ans. to the questions . no one is going to admit to reading it.I have a problem with anything that involves children. I do not feel it should be shown at all. freedom is not an absolute value all the time. I'm not talking abt. the Black Butler type stuff. I'm talking abt. where thy dress the kids in bikinis and still call it lollicon.

    Nnene August 28, 2016 4:45 am
    I had a profession back when I was in university who once grabbed a man's hand on the train, held it in the air, and shouted, "Is anyone missing a hand? I found this one on my ass!". I thought it was the cooles... Anoni Grrl

    Aha, I was only saying that assuming I was in an utterly cramped place. It's a totally other story otherwise.

    But honestly, I've never been even groped and did not ever see that happen to others as well, so yeaah. I guess it's good to be living in a city in which the last murder occured 13 months ago ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶.

    I'm not sure about the "most modern cultures make it hard" though... In Japan, apparently, the acceptable way to do it is to grab the guys' hand, raise your own and yell "Sumimasen, chikan desu!". Then people around take over (someone latches on him, takes him off the train etc.). It does break the "minding my own business" bubble Japanese usually have in trains. Really, in no way do Japanese see this as socially acceptable.

    It's just that, understandably, most people just freeze instead, so yeah they tend to get away with it.

    In any case, he probably won't get arrested. And yeah, I guess the right attitude is to move on. Shikata ga nai! Just start to ride in the women-only train.