love you for this, exactly how I perceive it as well, thank you for being a voice of reason here!
Really liking how this manhwa is handling the trauma of an abuse (and most likely rape, judging by what's been hinted at so far) victim, looking forward to seeing how it developes!
Ah, yeah. I remember that unfortunate simil. Comparing that issues with food...its not the first time I read thing like this. *sigh*
Sangbae was manipulative and became abusive (which is no shock), but while it is not Sun Hwa's fault, Sun Hwa is not standing up for himself and defining his boundaries even now that it's gotten worse. It's moved from pressuring and pushing boundaries into full on bullying. Now we have to see what Sun Hwa chooses to do. I don't think Sun Hwa is entirely sure about what he wants, and that makes it easier to push him around.
Naaah. You're rationalising and using all kinds of euphemisms to pretty up what Sunabe is doing. Bae didn't push and bend he crossed it. Period. From the first encounter. Sun Hwa expressed in clear, complete sentences, what he wants and does not want.
Ch. 12, Pg. 23: "Please move your hand, Sunbae." Did he? No. Instead he shoved his head on to Sun Hwa's dick. Sunbae acknowledges this by stating on Ch. 13 pg. 5: "You keep on saying 'no' but....".
More Ch. 17, Pg. 8: "Sunbae, we agreed not to do this in school." And basically, everything that follows after.
There is no magical number of Nos that one has to state before it finally hits the nonconsensual standard. Not trying to punch the abuser's lights out is not a passive "yes".
The dynamics of their relationship is exactly why most rape occurs when the abuser knows the victim. Why? They take advantage of the personal connection and familiarity in order to force them into situations...and afterwards the victim is far less likely to report it because doing is more likely to disrupt what was previously their safe social circle, nevermind the fact that they'll have to deal with the disbelief.
And the top detail that makes an abuse victim's recovery much harder is when they experience sexual arousal/climax. Sunbae is on point in that regard as abusers always always always use that to confuse and persuade the victim that they were asking for it even when the words "No" come out of their mouths repeatedly. But sexual arousal or climax is not consent. In the same way person can verbally consent to enduring physical pain (the body's alarm system) is the same way someone can verbally refuse to give consent despite arousal (the body's pleasure signals).
Really, what the writer has done here is a classic situation to anyone who has read on or had any experience with abuse victims. Forget that, anyone who has read a few reports about campus sexual assault.
No means no (excluding situations with safe words or at least an understanding of each partner's kinks which happens after *communication* not witnessing a masturbation session). Boundary set. We love the trashy yaoi that pushes and breaks all kinda boundaries, and if it's written well we get the fantasy that the creator is going for. The Finder series is one of my favourites and it's got crazy over the top nonconsensual sex...I ain't pretending to be different. But I can enjoy problematic things without making excuses for it.
We're not gonna agree on this so I leave it there.
*standing ovation* wow omg i agree with you!!! couldn't have said it better myself!!(づ￣ ³￣)づ
Ooops sorry no wrong comment, i meant to post it on another comment i apologize XD
LOL. It's okay (⌒▽⌒).
Thanks :). Yeah, I have my fingers crossed for this one. Some great BL coming from the manhwa scene.
I am not "prettying up" or excusing Sunbae. He's an asshole. What I am doing is recognizing Sun Hwa's power to make choices--and he does make them.
If you are going to bring real life into it, I have had experience as and with other rape and abuse survivors. After starting to get a handle on my own shit, I volunteered at rape and abuse crisis hotline, and then acted as volunteer survivor's advocate in hospitals and courtrooms, and I helped find people safe shelters for many years. I have a background in psychology though I ultimately chose a different career. That's one reason I am so insistent on not ignoring the choices and power of the person who experiences these things.
If we don't look at those times when we say "okay", and when we have conflicting wants and needs, we never see how to set boundaries and stand up for ourselves. We have choices, and what we do and say is important, even if it isn't always 'right'. That doesn't make abuse okay, but it gives us power to act we we see ouselves in a bad pattern (especially in the beginning, before a full "learned helplessness" effect can set in). Simplifying matters ultimately traps the survivor in victim role and takes the power of our choices away from us. No one deserves to be abused, but we do have the power to make choice and our choices matter. Making the choice to set boundaries and make better decisions matters. The abuser does not have all the power unless we let him or her have it.
In terms of the story, acknowledging the different choices Sun Hwa makes does not excuse Sunbae--it simply shows that Sun Hwa has inner conflicts and his own issues too.
PS. Unlike the incident when he said "okay" to penetration because he was horny despite the problems involved, clearly Sun Hwa did not agree to this sexual bullying. Additionally, he refused to say he loves Sunbae (which is good). His choices do have power though.
Clear as DAY from the first encounter that he was an abusive, manipulative, rapist asshole with boundary issues. But for some folks if the victim isn't getting knocked around it's the same as pressuring someone to buy Girl Scout cookies.
And miss me with the "he was sexually aroused so he secretly wanted it" talk.
Fingers crossed this development is handled well. Kokoro O Korosu Houhou is already taking its toll. I can't handle another one like it (⊙…⊙ ). (Not that Kashio sensei isn't handling it well just...I want happiness *ugly cries*.)