2nd story pisses me off

I respect your opinion, but I think the husband is more to blame because he made vows. That's just m y opinoin (for sake of chatting). I agree Ageha should look at his choices and the patterns in his life and start to make changes, but I find him slightly more sympathetic because there is something needy and vulnerable about him, and he was with the asshole before the asshole got married--indicating he developed feelings first and was then betrayed. He obviously has low self-worth because he does not seem casual but he does not expect anything. I am not defending anything, I just think I can understand already being emotionally entangled when his relationship came first, and being too messed up at that time to let go when he should. He should still dump the asshole and take better care of himself. But he isn't the cheater--he never made anyone a promise. The asshole is a cheater.

(づ￣ ³￣)づ Hugs to your plainly stated comment that summarises exactly what I feel.

(●'◡'●)ﾉ Thanks, it's nice to see another person who agrees.

OMG (=・ω・=).
Thank you for accepting my comment. (づ￣ ³￣)づ

Btw , you're welcome. (▰˘◡˘▰)

Even if has to share him? Do you think the wife feels the same way? Do you think she WANTS to share her husband with his sex friend? If the person you love is already married or committed to someone else, and they come to you for a casual round of sex, would you accept? Because if you do, you are doing something morally wrong. Allowing yourself to be the "other woman/man" isn't a good thing, regardless of how much you love the person, that is no justification whatsoever. And even people who ARE invested in a relationship will cheat. The husband doesn't necessarily want to be in a relationship with Ageha, he just wants to have sex with him - he wants his cake and to eat it too. He is more than likely not willing to give up his wife and child, and Ageha knows this. So, Ageha should back the fuck off and move on, preferably to someone who's not in a relationship.

You aren't understanding what i'm trying to say... i believe i made it clear that i don't think the cheating is okay? What i was addressing was vampire queen's statement of: "(Agatha) seems to play off as being a victim of love to the main guy.", i don't believe that Ageha is trying to play off as a victim at all and i don't believe that Vampire queen really has any basis behind their distaste of him, they seem to believe that he's trying to pull sympathy and because of this they don't like him; they feel as though he shouldn't be trying to pull sympathy when they're the cause of their own pain. I responded to this in stating that there isn't enough plot revealed yet to assume that Ageha even views himself as a victim and there doesn't really seem to be any instances in the manga as of yet where he acts in a way that garners sympathy from others. Basically, my point wasn't to justify the cheating, it was to say that we don't know enough about the situation to hate on Ageha, especially not for a specific reason such as what vampire queen gave.

Excuse me? when did i insult you or say your opinion is wrong? I'm saying keep an open mind on Ageha because there isn't enough story revealed yet to draw any conclusions, you're seeming like you think that Ageha garners sympathy and this makes you hate him because he puts the pain on himself, i'm replying to this in saying that there're no in manga instances where it shows Ageha garner sympathy so i don't see how you already decided that you dislike him, i'm saying give him a little time before you decide anything. If anything the offensive one was you as you said that: "Most of what you are saying is based on assumption and not facts, my opinions are fact based on events in the manga." which is disrespectful and just untrue as, like i said, all you've done is state your opinion as well; you haven't stated any in manga instances that make you think he's trying to garner sympathy. Please quote some of my text that seems offensive to you, i'll try to explain myself. I'll make this clear now, i'm not angry at you (well, i'm a little butthurt at the whole: you're making assumptions! i'm right!), the only reason i've been responding on this page is to clear up the misunderstandings you seem to have with what i said in response to your earlier reply towards vanlatte's comment of: "I know what u mean, but isn't the first story much worse? The uke is clearly blackmailing the manager! And I don't see any love at all coming from the uke.
Well, it's not like I like cheating story either..." sorry if i seemed angry, but i only got pissy once you said that i'm wrong and you're right despite us both stating opinions NOT based on fact so much as our interpretation of what happened within the manga. In opinions there is no wrong or right.

Also, i'll quote the definition that you brought up: "a person or thing that suffers harm, death, etc., from another or from some adverse act, circumstance, etc." Ageha suffers emotional harm from another (the husband) and his circumstance, so by this definition Ageha IS a victim of love. I'm assuming you got confused by the definition of 'victims of tyranny' mentioned within the definition of 'victim' that states: "a person who is tricked or swindled; dupe" however, we were talking about a victim of love and, by the definition of 'victim' if can be confirmed that Ageha is indeed a 'victim' of love.

To be clear, i agree with you in thinking that the husband seems to be an asshole up to this point, i've even said so in one of my previous responses to vampire queen. I'll quote myself: "You're right, which is why i feel like we should be putting our focus on the husband and not ageha." i said this in response to vampire queen saying: "it appears that Ageha is the only one of the two who is serious the cheating husband seems like he is only after a casual fwb relationship with Ageha." I've never said anything to justify what they're doing, all i've said is that i feel as though vampire queen is wrongly accusing Ageha as i feel like he is a victim of circumstances and we don't even know that the husband is cheating on his wife with Ageha, he could be cheating on Ageha with his wife for all we know, there isn't enough revealed yet to draw any conclusions about whether or not we hate Ageha.

If possible, i'd appreciate an apology as you completely didn't understand the subject matter or what i was trying to convey in the chat between vampire queen and myself and you just suddenly attacked me.

i've pointed this out already, but we don't even know if he was with his wife first, he could be cheating on Ageha with his wife to keep up appearances in society, which is a yaoi trope. I'm not justifying anything Ageha has done, just saying that there is no need to hate on Ageha for the situation because while, yes he is helping the husband cheat, that isn't his intention; Ageha is just in love with someone and choosing to have sex with them. I've pointed out before that if the husband is willing to cheat on his wife it's probably because he's not too invested in her anyways.

Also, read my responses to Rico, they explain that i already said i wasn't justifying anything happening and that i wasn't actually discussing cheating, i was addressing a statement made by vampire queen saying "Ageha seems to play off as a victim of love to the seme, but they do it do themselves." and they go on saying things critical of Ageha, the entire point of everything i said was to give some perspective on Ageha, i was saying that while he's in a controversial circumstance he IS a victim nonetheless, he didn't go into that relationship with the intention just to have sex or to help some husband cheat on his wife, hes known the husband for years and is in love with him and it hurts him to be sleeping with a guy who doesn't love him back. I was trying to defend Ageha because i feel like the person we should really be angry at is the husband, if we're looking at intention Ageha just wants to be with the one he loves while as the husband just wants to fuck (as of right now this is the case, maybe not in the future?) and has no qualms with cheating on his wife, i was saying why shame Ageha when the real asshole seems to be the husband. I'm NOT saying Ageha is guilt-free, just that he's innocent in his intentions and that the only reason you guys seem to hate him is on the wife's behalf when we don't even know that the wife was with the husband first. It says in the manga that Ageha has known the husband longer so it's possible the husband is cheating on Ageha with his wife.

Honestly, I feel as if i'm repeating myself in this whole argument, yes this is an argument. I tried to state my opinion and used facts to support that but it seems as if someone here wants to force their opinions on me and tell me that most of what i'm saying is not real. So this discussion has become an argument. （￣へ￣）

Anyway here are some facts:

Ageha does act like a victim as shown here:

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/amaeru_kubiwa/mf/09fbd4b56c1ed448/Vol1_Ch5/pg-3/

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/amaeru_kubiwa/mf/09fbd4b56c1ed448/Vol1_Ch5/pg-4/

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/amaeru_kubiwa/mf/09fbd4b56c1ed448/Vol1_Ch5/pg-10/

All these pictures show Ageha to have a pained expression and he is clearly showing it to anyone who cares to look (the main guy). He is shown to be a bit reserved towards others and is sometimes shown to be dazed or drift off and not take proper care of himself at times, he makes his love interest the center of his world. These are all traits of someone who is crying out for attention and help, also it how his emotional and mental instability.

One of the biggest reasons is that also don't like how he gains sympathy from the main guy, and how he almost purposefully leads him on.

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/amaeru_kubiwa/mf/c004/19/

But he is (and again i'm saying this) all his own doing. Which pisses me off. Because he is clearly unsatisfied being in a sexual relationship with his unrequited love. He acts with no remorse for the marriage he is destroying and the two innocent lives he effects by his decision to continue a sexual relationship with the married man.

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/amaeru_kubiwa/mf/c004/28/

Maybe "victim" was an incorrect word maybe I should have said that I did not like how blase and innocent he acts when he is not innocent in this matter.

Is my opinion a bit clearer to you now? I'm sorry if I have not properly expressed my opinions or if it lead you to misunderstand my statement.

"i feel like he is a victim of circumstances"
Your statement has no authority as the manga does not show how their relationship began or developed up to this point. This is your own opinion on the matter, which I don't agree with but that is a different matter than what we are arguing.

"if he was with his wife first, he could be cheating on Ageha with his wife to keep up appearances in society"

Even if this was the case he is still a cheater and no innocent. The husband made vows to his wife and he and Ageha should respect them.

I never once said the husband was innocent in fact I despise his character, but yes my main focus in this discussion was Ageha because he is a protagonist and the center focus of this story.

That was explained well. I agree with most of what you say, except for, "Even if this was the case he is still a cheater and no innocent. The husband made vows to his wife and he and Ageha should respect them."

The husband is the only one who made vows. Ageha never promised anyone anything. The husband is the only "cheater". Any pain to the wife and child is 100% on the husband. The marriage is the husband's, and he should protect it. The husband is the main asshole.

But Ageha should dump the asshole for his own self, because he should stop volunteering to be used.

*applauses* I love your argument ლ(´ڡ`ლ)
.This argument has good explanation.*thumbs up* .(づ￣ ³￣)づ

Yep! Ageha should dump that jolting idiot cheater, build up some self-esteem and find a guy who will love and respect him and not cheat.

Just to clarify a bit:

"Even if this was the case he is still a cheater and no innocent. The husband made vows to his wife and he and Ageha should respect them."


- What I meant by that is that the husband should respect his vows to his wife and Ageha should have known better than to sleep with a married man, thus respecting his (husband) marriage and the wife as an extension of that.

Yeah. I wouldn't want to be the "homewrecker" either. There is something about respecting marriage in general, and yourself in particular. Still, the primary responsibility is on the people in the marriage--you know? It's their job to protect their own marriage and their kid. I mean, it's good in general if people don't get involved with married people, but it's the married people who should be held to blame if they cheat. The husband should be thinking about his marriage and his wife and child's well being. He's the one who promised.

Yes, I do agree, you do make some valid points. The husband is a bit more to blame, but I don't totally agree with " married people should be held to blame if they cheat" I still think it's both the cheating parties faults. But I do agree with what you are saying about the husband being more to blame than the one he is cheating with.

Husband's should respect their wives and children by being true to their vows and responsibilities as a parent and spouse.

:) People will vary a bit on their values and how we look at things. The important part is that we agree he should end the affair.

This^. this is what i've been trying to say this entire time, this and that i'm NOT trying to justify the situation OR act like Ageha is innocent in that sense, i've just been saying that he had no ill intentions and that the person who should really be blamed is the one who had intentions to cheat.