I’m not trying to pick a fight, I’m just genuinely curious and looking for a valid ans...

people love to talk abt how much they love toxic yaoi until some real toxic yaoi hits em LMFAOO

Exactly like why would you even read this expecting some Disney channel plot line plus this isn’t even the worst out there, non zero sum and no reason are FARRR more toxic and traumatic even for me lolol

I agree with you, i don’t know why these two are defending it, even if it’s “not as bad” as others it doesn’t make it ok at all. I just wanted to say that, I’m not replying to this thread any further.

why does everyone on this site lack critical thinking....
yes the attitude towards rape in fiction is different from murder, but it’s not hypocritical, there are reasons for it.

1. The average person in real life is very far removed from murder so there is little to no emotional effect as there is a very big disconnect. However we are sexual beings by nature, we have sexual feelings and most of us have had sex in our lives. rape is a violent perversion of sex, it has a greater emotional effect on people and creates a lot more discomfort because we are emotionally closer to the act than we are to the act of killing.
(graphic animal abuse and cp are also crimes not commonly depicted in mainstream entertainment for similar reasons as rape)

2. In a moral context, murder at times can be justified or at the very least sympathized with, but rape can almost never be justified (if ever).

But the actual issue with rape in yaoi is simply the way it’s presented.
Considering the emotional context and sensitivity with the topic, it should not be hard to see why people (Myself included) get upset when rape is not treated with the appropriate gravity and just used as a casual or entertaining plot device with the pretext of “dark”.
The reason Killing stalking works is because it doesn’t romanticize shit.

to answer your original question, you shouldn't expect a murder to be a rapist, there could be overlap, but generally there is no correlation. Also there was no reason for it here, it didnt add anything to his character or the plot, it was just put for the sexual appeal aka romanticized rape.

that being said, you are at liberty to read whatever you wish, like you can have shit taste for all care.
i just wanted to offer a more nuanced perspective on the subject because this gaslighting narrative you have going is kind of annoying lol.

(As for the points made about morals and pirating, that’s an example of the “tu quoque” fallacy and therefore a flawed argumentative point.)

“The average person in real life is very far removed from murder so there is little to no emotional effect as there is a very big disconnect”

Girl.. Let me hold your hand when I say... That’s not how a normal person supposed to think..

Just a follow up, the replies are getting scary now. We have a reply wherein murder is and supposed to be normalized or should be thought about less.

That is beyond scary and frightening already. We know how draw a line between fiction and reality, but we NEVER, NEVER, EVER take murder lightly. The way people think here as to murder is “lighter” and more acceptable than rape is not normal. This would be my last reply as we have a person in the replies starting a rebut that human nature accepts murder, and that is not a normal logic.

I could read harry potter and think that no human person could fly in a broom.. I could watch Avatar and not normalize people coloring their skin blue. That’s how we are supposed to think. I’m going to be genuinely frightened to see and know that people are going to follow up and agree that murder is somehow more acceptable.

Firstly, thanks for actually having a reason instead of mindless throwing insults like a child unlike some other people I’ve seen on this website.

I see your point and in no way am I defending REAL sa/rape cases so if it isn’t obvious already I hope you understand that my point is specifically ONLY about fiction. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Moving on, yes SA affects normal real people on an everyday basis but so does all other sorts of crime. To say that murder doesn’t affect people can be insensitive to those who HAVE unfortunately been a victim to those crimes (or have friends and family who are) as we can see every day from all sorts of news outlets. Think about all the school shootings in America and I’m from the UK and in here stabbings are VERY common to the point British folks make it into a joke from how often it happens.

And yes a murderer doesn’t necessarily HAVE to be a rapist just like how a rapist doesn’t have to be a murderer since they’re not interchangeable. BUT, my point was if someone already lacks basic human empathy and morality to the point human lives are meaningless to them, why should you expect them to understand consent? For example, person A violently attacks children, abuses animals for fun and steals from stores whilst person B donates money to charity, volunteers at homeless shelters and is generally a really kind and humane person. Who would you expect more to rob a house?

I hope this analogy makes sense to you. Obviously you’re entitled to your own opinion I’m not trying to force you to agree with me but I just wanted to share my viewpoint too.

Maybe i didnt explain myself properly, so let me try to clarify some things.
obviously people in real life are effected by murder, but that type of emotional connection doesn’t inherently exist for murder.
but because we are sexual beings, rape is something we inherently do have a closer emotional connection to, even if we didn’t experience the act ourselves.

both murder and rape are viewed as terrible crimes in real life, but because of psychological reasons, most people unless they have personal trauma, are fine with murder in fiction, but at the same time, a great number of those same people can feel deeply bothered and disturbed by rape even if its in the context of fiction and even without being a victim themselves.
but, i would argue that most people would not criticize a dark work for simply being dark. Even if its not their cup of tea, well written work is recognized for being so.
Berserk is held in very high regard and is considered one of the best manga of all time and it contains rape on multiple occasions.
much of the criticism of rape in yaoi is simply regarding the way its presented.

my problem with your analogy is that it compares two extreme one dimensional opposite cases, so what’s the point? obviously from between two extremes, the "bad" one (person A) is more likely to do something bad.
Your analogy disregards all complexity and motives of murder outside of “psychopath criminals who murder for fun” type of murder.
Plus as you said earlier, this character (who is a murderer) is morally gray, so what relevance does your analogy have here?

you could not have misunderstood in a worse way, but if you dont want to have a discussion about it, i wont bother.
also im not a girl.

No, not needed at all. I don’t need to read all of your reasons nor hear your out. I just think that you have a mind of a sociopath and you need to get checked medically. There’s no point of talking with someone who has a mindset as you.

Also, may it be a girl or a boy, that’s not how normal people think and to think that murder is still somehow acceptable than rape and less traumatizing than rape is how a sociopath think.

all i did was try to explain the psychology behind why murder is more normalized and accepted than rape in FICTION lol
idk if you just lack comprehension skills or maybe you need to work on your english skills in general...because the conclusions you come up with are WILD

My point is that unlike some other bl characters who are obviously written in a way to depict them as a green flag, the ml in mad dog since the first chapter until the end was shown to be clearly violent, hot headed, manipulative and selfish. He was never supposed to be a ray of sunshine nor morally “correct”. To say the least, he’s objectively a criminal and the furthest away from a green flag lol.

That being said, linking to my analogy, it’s not really shocking that someone who ALREADY commits crimes and lacks basic human empathy doesn’t respect the concept of consent since they’re known for committing heinous acts to begin with.

I totally understand disliking bls with red flag mls or SA in general I’m not trying to force people to like manhwas like this since at the end of the day we all have free will and entitled to our own opinion. Just me personally, I expected this behaviour from the ml since he was never really an innocent soul from the get go but maybe others interpreted otherwise.

At the end of the day, my initial commit wasn’t trying to police anyone on what they should read or shouldn’t since we’re all different but rather, I just wanted to hear some alternative explanation since there are plenty of fluffy and cute non-triggering bl manhwas out there (like merry marbling) which would suit their criteria more than something controversial/dark like this which made me curious.

You’re free to disagree but those are just my 2 cents

i guess its because morally gray characters in fiction are not known to commit rape, so its not an association or expectation that i have.
given that the straightforward evil nature for rape doesnt usually align with the ambiguous and complex nature of what it means to be a morally gray character.

i cant stand most fluff/cute stories, i usually find those genres really boring.
i like darker stories, i just cant stand romanticized rape, its bad writing with the intended purpose of its sexual appeal to the readers and nothing more.

but thank you for taking the time to have this discussion and sharing your views.

I just summarized what you said and you keep defending that murder is boarderline acceptable which to me is not.

And surprisingly, I don’t consume what I read. I just read it and go with my life like a normal person. I could watch Saw and still perform my human duties. I could read Non Zero Sum and still work on my daily duties as a normal person.

“Fiction is more normalized” you don’t have to explain the psychology behind it BECAUSE THAT’S NOT HOW NORMAL PEOPLE THINK!!! MY goodness.

How many time do I have repeat it? YOU ARE NOT NORMAL!!! You don’t have the capacity to think like a normal person! You need to be checked!! Just like rape, murder is just as bad and horrible - may it be fiction and it’s not supposed to be consumed. You are NOT NORMAL.

Ohhhh I see yeah that’s fair enough !

Maybe try give the pawn’s revenge a try then? It has a really dark plot line (involving revenge, gangs, murder ect) there are SA scenes but NOT between the main couple. The MC gets sold into prostitution due to debt but that’s why he’s trying to get revenge with the ml who also got betrayed by the same person. It has a lot of violent scenes if I’m being honest but if you’re looking for something more dark with a revenge plot line then maybe you can give it a go?

ong, i dont think murder is acceptable in real life. (outside of self defense).

however, there are reasons why murder is common in mainstream entertainment (like movies, games, etc.) in a way that rape can never and will never be.
my point was to explain why its not a double standard that these EQUALLY bad crimes are treated so differently in fiction/entertainment.
if you could actually comprehend what i wrote before, you would understand why.

also, reading in itself is an act of consuming, you probably mean you dont internalize the information that you consume.
and i can read a Garth Ennis comics and move on with my life too lol.
im not a sociopath, you just have skill issues.

its not like i have an affinity for dark stories, im just generally open minded and will read almost any genre if done well.
and tbh i dont typically read dark bls, but ill check that one out!