This shit is a smut *obviously*

Exactly "wtf".

Sorry late reply, I wasn’t keeping up with this thread, I’m surprised to see it’s gotten so much traction! I know what Dan said I read through the bl, it’s dub-con because he is coerced into it which is the point I’m trying to make, I also know what a forced orgasm is, it’s just strange to see people mad that read this bl, it’s fiction and is a break from reality for most, it doesn’t need to be deeper than that, it’s fantasy. I’m not an avid manga reader in general but when I do I tend to gravitate towards dub-con, it does not have anything to do with my ethics or morals bc to me it’s just a work of fiction. You don’t need to explain this to me like I don’t know what rape is, I’ve been through it, so I’m well aware of what it is and have been to therapy and also unfortunately know others that have been through it so I am not speaking as someone that’s just blindly reads and aimlessly defends this manga, Jinx is just such a small portion of my free time that it isn’t a big deal to me, especially since it’s fiction and it is very dubious, like I've said before, these kinds of mangas aren’t for everyone, I respect that but to take it so far and so serious when it is just that (a work of fiction, a manga, dub-con) blows my mind tbh, I don’t read rape-y non-con stuff like wet sand that kind of work is distasteful to me and I don’t see how anyone could enjoy but dub-con is harmless imo bc it is fiction but also doesn’t go extreme. Idk what to say atp I didn’t mean to trigger anyone or ruffle feathers, I don’t usually comment but it’s been irritating seeing people shit on a work of fiction that I’m sure the team behind it works hard on, anyone is allowed to dislike it but some people take it really far with the hate comments and to me, if a work do fiction is that serious and upsetting to someone, they need to stop engaging with it and perhaps occupy themselves through other interests.

*people mad that others

Before I even get into anything else I’ll say first I’m sorry you went through that and I hope the healing journey has been going well for you.

But for clarification—do you think that sex that someone is coerced into is consensual or nonconsensual? Why or why not?

I’m okay, like I said I was blessed to have a great team of mental health professionals through the rough parts, all is well for me now and that time was long ago. All I’m saying is that what I read has nothing to do with me irl, it’s one of several hobbies so I don’t look to deep into it, I don’t read Jinx to pick it apart on what it does right or wrong, or think of it realistically, again, it stays within the pages so there’s no need for me to criticize it and again, extremism is what I’d say is really problematic, as long as it doesn’t step into that territory, I don’t mind. All that to say, the question you asked doesn’t apply here because you asked what I think about it irl and the answer to that is I don’t, I don’t think of Jinx as a real scenario and so applying what I think is not part of the conversation because to put it simply, I just do not think about it in a literal context. That is the point, that people should be able to enjoy Jinx without stones being thrown. I don’t expect everyone to agree or to like manga like Jinx but I thought someone should say something ab the obsessive hate comments because in truth, if it is not for you that’s fine you don’t have to come back every time new chapters drop and shit all over it and cause people of being all kinds of sick for enjoying the manga, I get it’s the internet and all which is why I hadn’t previously made any comments about it but I saw - what was originally a funny and lighthearted interaction - and thought I’d reply but did not expect it to turn into what it did and well now I regret it lol because it created unwanted chaos when I really didn’t mean it to but oh well, now we’re here.

*accuse (not cause)

One of your first comments on this thread was “y’all will call anything rape” with you then going on to explain why you think that what occurs in the webtoon is not that, which implies to me that you DO have some criteria for what you consider to be rape/sexual which you’ve decided this webtoon does not match. You’ve repeatedly said how there are other webtoons that do portray outright rape, according to your criteria. You are the one who has repeatedly brought up your own real life experience with rape to further back up your claims. You don’t have to read Jinx to pick it apart, you don’t have to read into things super literally where it doesn’t make sense to do so, etc etc, but it’s bizarrely disingenuous for you to act as if you’re not doing the same thing as everyone else reading this and then hide behind “but it’s not real so it’s silly to apply real frameworks to it” when you clearly have been. Which is part of why I asked you if you your thoughts on sex that is coerced. Still curious what you think about that, by the way! It doesn’t just have to do with the webtoon.

I’ll end off by saying what I’ve said before—even if the rape isn’t meant to be read literally, even if it’s for porn purposes…a rape fantasy is still called a rape fantasy. lol

also…so just because you don’t think about the stories you read means no one else can or should? because you don’t have any strong opinions about it means no one else can or should? lol

To me it’s not as black and white as “”that’s rape, that’s not rape” I think it’s a nuanced conversation, depending on the context, I don’t know if by providing an example I’ll properly get my point across and I’m afraid I won’t, because when it comes to such an important and prevalent issue, I want to make sure I’m being clear and I do better at that when I’m having a discussion face to face, I’m not sure why but that way my mind is better focused. I know you said I don’t have to dissect it but if I were to really explain why Jinx isn’t rape I’d have to start from the beginning and be very thorough as to why that is my opinion and I’m sorry but I didn’t want to do that from the start and I still don’t, to me I have 3 very separate categories, non-con which I don’t read, dub-con which I do read and consensual which I also read and the reason I brought up my experience is bc strangers online are quick to accuse others of being rapist supporters without knowing what the person has gone through themselves, I did not use my experience as a sort of measuring scale and never could do that because it’s so personal and will always be a difficult memory that I couldn’t imagine using it for comparison as if it were something light. Idk pookie I’m sorry if I disappointed you I’m really bad at explaining myself when it comes to this stuff ESPECIALLY online like this I’m so anxious rn

I agree that there can be situations where a sexual encounter lands in a grey area rather than cleanly being rape or sexual assault. I think this can especially be true of stories exploring character dynamics and character psyches and the complex ways people come at sex. Or stories that are, again, straight up rape/ravishment fantasies. I reread Ten Count the other day, for example, and that’s one where I feel like dubious consent applies more because…well, many reasons LMAO but primarily for me it was that the bottom there did often actually want the sex and was genuinely attracted to the top, he just had hangups regarding his own sexuality acting as a barrier to him engaging with it well.

So I am willing to grant that, if you’re reading Jinx as an unserious story/nothing but porn then nothing in it means anything—I’m well aware of yaoi’s (and the romance genre in general) tendency to have “no” mean “yes” or for a “no” or “I’m not sure” to turn into an (enthusiastic) “yes.” And I am also willing to grant that there are some scenes in Jinx that are muddier than others when it comes to the consent because of the context surrounding it, as you said. If you ask me to go back and reread a scene I’ll be happy to do it and explain how I’m interpreting it not only with regards to if it’s consensual or not, but what I think any given scene is trying to say about Dan and Jaekyung as characters and what their dynamic with one another is (questions that I think are more interesting, in all honesty). But I’m personally not going to compromise my understanding of what I know to be consensual and non-consensual acts unless I have good reason to because, like you said, it’s an important and very prevalent issue. And for a story that seems to want to take SOME instances of sexual assault seriously (Dan’s experience with his former employer) but not others…I dunno. Seems it in and of itself is inconsistent.

Anyway, you don’t have to litigate anything you don’t want to I guess. But that’s why I asked you to simply clarify whether or not you believe sex that is coerced is consensual or not. We don’t have to dive into any particular scene if you don’t want to, you don’t even have to answer this question if you don’t want to, but it is to my understanding that sex that someone coerces someone into by use of threats, force, emotional manipulation, drugging, etc is simply rape by definition.

If I’m gonna be told I’m wrong to define coercive sex as blatant rape, I really want to know and understand why.

like okay let me see if I can explain better why I found some of what you were saying…odd, even given a fictional context where, sure, we can say things aren’t that serious, or the dynamic can be more complicated. statements like “dan knew what he was getting into” and “he could just get up and leave if he wants to” feels like they don’t take into consideration…a lot of details about this story, and, not to mention, do sound a bit like rape and abuse apologia (not saying that was your intention! it’s just that to me those feel very much like red flags. if you were joking around saying those things then the tone didn’t come across to me).

like dan during their first encounter Quite Literally did not know what he was getting into at first, at all. jaekyung blatantly lied to him about why he was calling him to that apartment that night, and bribed dan to come when dan expressed doubt (both acts of manipulation). and even if dan did, is he not allowed to back out? because, like i said, he really did try to several times before giving up. and the reason why he sticks around with jaekyung is because he’s desperately poor, to the point where he was about to go homeless, you know? which isn’t jaekyung’s fault, but it’s like, what else was he suppose to do when he was already working 3 jobs to try to sustain himself and his dying grandmother…

and then yeah re: your rereading of the first scene…like you explained why you thought jaekyung was making the threats that he was making, but he did nonetheless threaten dan which, to me, is coercive (not to mention the use of physical force). and then yeah the thing about how dan enjoyed it (if that’s not what you actually meant by that then please correct me)…doesn’t take into account how otherwise distressed dan was about what was happening, or how depressed he was about it after the fact (it also sounds like more rape apologia, AGAIN, not saying it was your intention, and again, i’m aware yaoi/porn in general plays with this trope a lot, so i understand if you were just reading it like that). like idk maybe i ain’t read enough yaoi in all honesty a story like this where romance (or “romance” lol) is the a plot has not held my attention in a while but i thought that when it’s Not That Serious the bottom’s meant to walk away mostly unscathed if not more hot for their partner…not dreading every time they have sex.

one final final thing i think then i’ve gotten all my thots out for now, me personally i agree it’s dumb to assume someone’s IRL morality and thoughts and opinions on real issues based off what kind of art they consume and/or create alone (although this is a very very nuanced topic. big fat caveats on these). like you said and like i well know people create and share things that are meant to be escapism (and this is one place where i’m like, nuance flag! escapist media begs the question of what a person is trying to escape from and what they envision an ideal reality to look like—for example, just what do we think white gamer bros are trying to escape when they cry that a black people/people of color/queer people in their video games threatens their ability to “escape”?) and when it comes to fiction, the question of morality isn’t necessarily as important as how/why characters have certain morals to begin with. my friends and i were watching strangers from hell the other day and we were all looking forward to when the main character would crash out and start killing people LMAO. of course we generally don’t condone murder but through the way the story was told we could come to understand how and why the character got to that point and even feel like cheering him on.

BUT…yeah that’s why i try to have these kinds of conversations with people so that i can tease out what their actual beliefs are. because i don’t know, i only have the way they’re interpreting the story, and the way people interpret a story IS real and can be reflective of someone’s beliefs and values y’know. everyone comes to a story with their own baggage and that is the lens through which they interpret. so like again with strangers from hell if someone came out of it saying something like “it’s the main character’s fault he’s stuck in the situation he’s in, he should’ve worked harder so he wouldn’t have had to be stuck with all those crazy poors,”
by the way this is why i hate the slums, always shady people there” or something…not only would i be like you missed the entire point of the story, but i’d also be like. deeply curious about what they actually think about poor people irl. because them coming to that conclusion

Hello again :) I read your replies and your confusion about where my mind is at, realistically, is sensible from a deeper lens. Yes this is a one dimensional read for me, unless I’m reading a book on someone’s life, poetry or art of any form that inquires the reader/viewer to reflect on the message, I won’t, for me as long as the content is not extreme, I feel it doesn’t bother me because I see it as nothing more than a work of fiction and a form of escapism. I am non white and was raised in a small, southern, white town, I am also non religious and was raised in a strict catholic household, I’m also queer and nonbinary, sometimes, escapism looks as unserious as reading Jinx and sometimes it’s doing 10 of the 99 coping skills or frolicking in the grass (very serious lol). Meh I think I only answered your question about what I’m sometimes escaping from and then again that Jinx, to me is as serious as watching totally spies :3 Ahhh sorry I rambled and was all over the place, like I mentioned, it is difficult for me to keep focus when I’m not speaking with people either on call or in person, not sure why that is :,)