WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.

He revoked consent during Ash’s rut. Very, very visibly. We’re not talking about hesitancy. We’re talking about blatantly saying no and stop during the scene where there is no safe word, and abusive BDSM in the scene where there is a safe word.
Since I brought up the rut, I have to assume you’re at least partially responding to me. And I mentioned being a survivor in that same reply.
Telling a survivor to learn what consent is… is a fucking TAKE, man. What is wrong with you?

Okay NVM I just saw you say in your own thread, *acknowledging* that Lyle couldn’t use the safe word. And still arguing it was consensual and fine. But that “oh Lyle could’ve just told him he didn’t like it”. A safe word is NECESSARY during BDSM play. The dom picking a safe word the bottom doesn’t feel comfortable saying makes it no longer sane, safe, or consensual.
I’m going to assume you MUST be a troll from here-on because that is so fucked up, dude. That or you have a fundamental misunderstanding of not only BDSM, but consent, since you don’t seem to realize consent can be taken away at any moment.

You're very dumb, i am a survivor of SA too. This wasn't SA, it was BDSM with a very hesitant sub. Not at all consent being ignored or forced into this situation. Lyle admitted he wouldn't be able to say it and still went along with him.
I understand consent can be taken away at any point, its the fact that this wasn't rape in the slightest. Saying "no. stop" during a BDSM isnt really a end all since that's what safe words are for., as some people use it as overstimulation or in a roleplay aspect. Lyle consented to everything, was it overwhelming, yes but it wasn't rape. I'm getting tired of everyone crying rape when its not that. Like at all.
BDSM was used wrong, I'll give it that, but it wasn't forced on him. Ash would never hurt Lyle or force him into anything he doesn't want. Consent being revoked wasn't really necessary since Lyle knows Ash won't hurt him.

Yes. That is what safe words are for. Which you acknowledge Lyle could not use or say the safe word he was given, and acknowledge that he said no and stop.
It doesn’t matter if “Lyle still went along with it” even after he admitted he wouldn’t be able to say it. Ash shouldn’t be doing anything if he knows Lyle can’t safeword out, because otherwise he would be abusing him. That is non-negotiable.
Lyle has a safe word he cannot say. Meaning he doesn’t have a safe word. Ash picked the safeword (very bad) and picked a safe word he knows Lyle won’t feel comfortable using. That is abusive.
You are ignoring the very real phenomenon of coercion. We are shown over, and over, and over, and over again that Lyle is afraid to upset Ash. That even as he wants to propose to Ash, he’s terrified that Ash hates him and wants to break up with him. If someone cannot use a safe word or clearly revoke consent because they are too scared to, they should NOT be doing a BDSM scene. Especially not one like this. Because it CANNOT BE DONE safe, sane, and consensually.
Lyle is intended to just be reluctant or hesitant. Yes. You understand what the story intended. But it failed to deliver, as the story is written in a way that depicts Lyle as being clearly unwilling, clearly being scared and not wanting it, clearly thinking that Ash is going to hate him and break up with him for his body’s reaction to the scene.
And need I bring up the rut again? Where Lyle said no, stop, that he was in pain, over and over and over?
Listen, I apologize for assuming you weren’t a survivor. But I did so because you were so blatantly disrespectful of me being a survivor.

Hey so do you know what safe words are by any chance

Lyle makes it very, very clear that he wishes to stop the scene in his internal monologue. Even if he gets aroused by it. Arousal doesn’t indicate consent. And the story makes it very apparent that Lyle is worried that if he says no to Ash, that he will damage their relationship.
And the ultimatum is, again, abusive. A dom should never push a sub into a situation where their options are “use your safe word or do this thing you don’t feel comfortable doing”.
I can understand where you’re coming from in the sense that, yeah, your POV is probably what the writer intended. But they did a shit job of it. Because I don’t think it’s a coincidence that an innumerable amount of people, including many like myself who practice BDSM IRL, look at this and go, “that was rape.”

I think you should reread the end of side 7

I get your point and I never liked how author made lyle a very hesitant person when it comes to intercourse scenes (and in contrast put a very persuasive person w him) . If we look at their characters like that then you're correct it does get justified as SA

I AGREEE.. Fr. It's gone. And it shows how they are illiterate when reading yaoi. Like can they stop reading already if all they see is RAPE??

Guys this is a two page thread are we okay

I mean, like, am I good? Honestly, yeah.
I’m a little concerned with how fervently y’all are defending something that would be SA if it happened IRL, especially since similar shit has happened to me and I can’t talk about it because I was too scared to say “no” or “stop,” and especially bcus I practice kink IRL.
Like, I’m pretty sure everyone is in agreement about what the author intended was not rape. But authorial intent does not always equate to how it’s read, y’know?

I also keep remembering things I want to say after I hit post, part of why it’s long. Alas.
Obviously, my trauma does not equate to a fictional story, and obviously, because it’s a fictional story, people can read it in different ways and differentiate fact and fiction.
In my case, I find it concerning how many people I see here espouse rape apology rhetoric (For example, I’ve seen multiple people say things long the lines of “he’s a grown man, he can just fight back if he doesn’t actually want it!”).
It’s important for people to know when unhealthy portrayals of kink are unhealthy and/or unrealistic. I’ve seen multiple people say things like “you must not know what BDSM is/you must be vanilla!” when, no, this is a very bad and unhealthy portrayal of BDSM. This kind of stuff (dom giving the sub a safe word they don’t feel comfortable saying or can’t say, dom not telling the sub about the scene beforehand, dom putting the sub in a position where they feel forced to safe word, sub feeling like they don’t want to disappoint their dom if they safeword) is similar to very, very real abuses that people have and do through. I’ve seen countless people in similar scenarios asking for help, unsure if they are being abused or not, unsure what they should do.
I didn’t know I was sexually assaulted until I asked Why it made me feel so bad to some people who engage in BDSM and they told me I had been sexually assaulted. But, because of bad media depicting kink, I thought it was fine. I thought I knew better.

Long rant aside. Like. Obviously, the author did not intend to portray a rape scene. But if so many people are so strongly reacting, saying it is unhealthy BDSM, it would be rape or SA in real life… instead of assuming they’re stupid and wrong, maybe take a step back and examine and really understand why they feel that way.

Again, at the end of the day. It’s a fictional story. But in my opinion and the opinion of clearly very many people, this scene is a badly written portrayal of BDSM that is too reminiscent of SA and hurts the narrative of the story.

Holy mother of paragraphs.

First, lemme start by saying I did read this entire thing as well as almost all the comments under the thread and I get it. In fact I'm understanding both opinions cs like you said, the author had intended it to be taken one way, and people took it another.

Why I'm understanding the ppl saying it isn't SA:

The way the characters are written. Lyle being this very reserved, closed off, and hesitant person, even around his S/O with his mannerisms, and actions. He doesn't do well making some decisions for himself and is like a scared cub around literally everyone he comes into contact with for whatever reason (even tho it did get better to a certain extent). It's like he's gonna break at the slightest inconvenience (real) and we know that's how he's been since the start, which is why ppl are like "oh he's fine, he's just like that". Ash is almost the complete opposite of Lyle, with an acception like the fact he's also a bit closed off with Lyle, although Ash does open up if it's really bothering him or Lyle (like we've just seen with the whole Hazel thing). Not to mention Ash is like this HUGE freak and he tries to introduce Lyle to some of his kinks, that Lyle is either appalled by, or has never heard of it a day in his life, which brings me to my next point, that's also in this point,

Why I'm understanding the people saying it IS:

ASH IS A FUCKING FREAK. And while that's okay most of the time, he gets way too into the role and doesn't have the best time understanding he could be taking it too far, and like you, and most ppl here have stated, safe words should be chosen by the one who'll actually be using it, no doubt. Lyle being that hesitant and closed off person doesn't help the situation either, cs in times of intimacy, he can't bring himself to speak up about what he wants a lot of the time and ends up in impossible situations. Ash seems aware of it all, but still does what he wants and honestly that's my biggest ick about him because my gods, LET THE MAN BREATHE?? What's worse is that he's genuine about it, it's like while he's aware of Lyle's state and feelings, he's also not? It's weird cs you can obviously see him caring and taking it slow, to going back to not listening.

Idk man I'm not good at explaining things but I tried my best, honestly I'm not sure if I can form an official opinion about either sides

I apologize, I’m a long winded person.
Regardless, I appreciate your response. I have a pretty decent understanding of why people feel so strongly that it isn’t, I just (obv) disagree.
I think you did a good job explaining! And I appreciate that you were kind about it lmao.

Yeah thanks cs I get arguing but damn mfs don't have to be so rude about it

I haven’t reread this and started the story ages ago when i had little knowledge of what actual consent even was so i guess i unfortunately missed those thank you for telling me! I myself am not exactly a victim of assault but i have been violated before which is one of the reasons why i taught myself about consent in the first place, im so sorry you had to go through that. :(

Read the other replies here. Safe words don’t work like that.

Read mine

I did ages ago my statement still stands

And I agree with it so what's the problem now