wahh

I understand your point more clearly now, and I agree. He really does not deserve a pass, what he did was wrong and indecent. And especially doing her dirty like that. His past should be an explanation, but never a free pass for him to torture other people.

Maybe I found the thought of him being punished for what he did because he grew up on an environment that didn't introduce to him the proper way of loving somebody despite of already going through hellish torture too cruel. I believed it would be proper for him to attain freedom after being in shackles for so long. I aimed for his happiness because no one deserved that fuckass treatment, but mc also didn't deserve that kind of love, you're right.

I wanted people to look through him so much so they would put themselves in his shoe and experience what he's gone through, but I never wanted people to discard what he did.

Though I still think he deserves happiness (shi if that were me i woulds gave up ASAP,) I also agree that he should not get unpunished for what he did to her.

Thank you so much! I loved talking to youuu, also I'd like to apologize because I implicated you werent reading it, you clearly did. We just have different opinions, and I like you for voicing out yours, it gives me a good idea of the perspectives of others. You verbalized your points very well.

yes this is my point too, thank you for conveying it well. I believe people should have be given a chance to live their life better than what they went through, especially the two of them :D

Yw! You've done a good job explaining as well.
I think this person is wanting something to happen to punish him but his whole life Has been that punishment in a sense. He has suffered and now his further "punishment" is to grow and be better.
People are fucked up and fuck up often. Looking at this through a modern lense also leaves people looking at things through our view of morality. And yes what he did was morally disgusting and in our reality he should face legal justice but this is fiction and we know his inner mind and his past. He deserves to have a sense of peace so he can heal and atone for his mistakes.
Like this is set in what we'd know as early 20th century. Shit was rough and war was common. This is a really good example of a wartime love story. From the interesting perspective of a girl who was born into privilege and a child solider turned revolutionary. Cuz he literally led the revolution to end aristocratic reign. He did a crazy good thing when doing that. In the eyes of the public he's a saint for changing the world.

Omg!! thank you so much, I think you did well creating boundaries of how different stories are from real life, and I am astonished by that. You've given me another point to believe. Ever since I first read, I was always fascinated at how the characters were written, their suffering was evident, and that's why from the start, I wanted nothing but for them to have a happy end because of what they went through.

I am very satisfied with how things are looking, I believe they both deserve an environment wherein they grow and give themselves the privilege deprived of them from the early chapters.

Especially when it comes to ml because the stuff he did was all he knew, and no one really provided him with a solid ground to stand on and a safe place to be in(but of course he was wrong for treating my glorious queen like that). With your comments I really feel seen with what I felt and the empathy I poured

I even started questioning if it was right to feel like that because of how solid the other one's replies are, but at the end of the day, my opinions are mine to keep. I love having sympathy. I still stand for them to grow, heal, and be happy. No one really deserves the kind of shit destiny put them through

Not sure how old the other person is by they come across as young and want everything to be just and fair. Which is an understandable feeling and as someone who has experienced hardships in childhood I understand the "no he did bad, he's bad and only bad should happen".
And in most other stories now that's how it works. Bad guys get bad things, everyone is very one dimensional and things get wrapped up perfectly.
This has just not been one of those stories since the beginning.
And I absolutely agree, I think it's really wonderful to see through fiction how people can grow from horrible things.
I'm actually really happy with how Heiner has grown too. He didn't cling to her, he kept her in his heart but he gave her a lot of space and took the time to start healing. He's definitely got years to go to really heal but wow he's done amazing even considering he's still been leading a country through war

"Everyone is saying that he deserves the chance to heal and if she chooses to keep him around he has the opportunity to be better to her.
You're just assuming bc we're saying that we're saying what he did before doesn't matter. When we're saying is bc of what he did before and what he's doing now he deserves a chance at happiness." - That's literally giving a pass. That's literally everything YOU specifically in your replies, to a lesser extent the other commentor has been saying. I don't know what about my point is not coming across with you saying giving a second chance after doing something unforgivable is not "giving a pass". Again, if you haven't gotten the point after all this comments. HE DESERVES NOTHING BUT PUNISHMENT. NOT A SECOND CHANCE, NOT A FORGIVENESS, NOT EVEN FREEDOM TO HEAL. The MC gives him a second chance not because he "deserves" it, but because that's the best way for her to reconcile her guilt for the atrocities that happened behind her back, the love she felt when he fooled the shit out of her, and the pity and friendship (platonic or romantic, up to the open ending) she feels when he finally let her go, regretted torturing her and talked to her like a human being. The world owes nothing to that man.

"As does everyone who experienced something horrible and it led them down a dark path before finding the right path." - This is not a generalisation of just "the dark path", he is not as relatable as you want him to be. We're talking specifics here: fool a woman you love into marrying you hiding yourself and the intention to absolutelt ruin her, massacre her family in a coup, keep her alive without any support apart from you because you love her too much to put her out of her misery, but hate her so much for the sin of ignorance you corner her into suicide. If you or anyone you know goes anywhere near this absolutely mind-blowing "dark path" to this extent, that person does not deserve a pass. Maybe this is why you keep on giving him a pass though, you cannot comprehend that relating to an ambiguos error is not applicable to all the evil he chose to do. You just generalise everything when you should talk specifics, the same way you though it was "nitpicking" when I responded each of your arguments by literally quoting each sentence.


"Are you fighting ppl over something you made up??" -Kid, just look at the way you are trying to say the ML deserves a second chance because he is regretfull, minimizing all his evil deeds into a "dark path" anyone could follow, saying you're not excusing him while going on and on about how he had no way to know not to torture another mentally the same way he was tortured before.

There's literally no point talking to you, it's a wall. At least the other commentor understands what the hell my point was, you jump all over the place oblivious to it. Not gonna respond anymore since this is going nowhere, but I advice you to be more "nitpicky", both on your arguments and your opposer's, or all your debates are gonna end up like this with no end.

It's funny that you don't realise you are responding to comments of other conversations way beyond (and deeper than) your arguments.

Talking to you is literally talking to a wall, yet it is I who is fighting over something I made up? No point in responding any further to you.

Like them, you really pretending "giving a pass" is not a synonym of "second chance" without punishement. You're wild.

Nah that's fine. Though I advice you to read things more critically and not, well, like you write. You're not enjoying the nuisance when you cannot even comprehend how he doesn't deserve a second chance.

Holy shit a wall of nothing, never thought it could be done. Congratulations. None of that even deserves a response considering how me and the og commenter literally agree and are saying the same thing.
You just want an argument for some reason and are purposely finding a way to argue with everyone lmao
No one is "minimizing" anything
People are allowed to grow and change.
Especially IN A WORK OF FICTION LMAO
Neither of them are ignoring what they went through, what he did. If she was she wouldn't have moved away, she would have adopted the kid, she would have kissed him or stayed by his side. The only thing she did was send him letters and he refused to reply until the war was over. He even walked away when he thought she moved on. You have definitely not been paying attention. Your analysis comes across like you're hate reading and ignoring the details that show growth.

Don't call me kid cuz I guarantee I'm older than you lmao.
Also arguments are not meant to end in winners. We could have had a good discussion about nuance but you started with a comment that was straight up making fun of and being spiteful to the original comment. You have no real moral leg to stand on here lmao. You misunderstood what the original comment said, what I have said and what most of the replies and other comments have said.
You are fighting an imaginary enemy and you're losing while waving a victory flag for some dumb reason. Once your brain fully develops you'll be able to understand this lol.

And yes people do deserve second chances and grace. Even if they have done something terrible, because not everyone is blessed with a good childhood or being able to make good choices. People make dumb irreversible mistakes. That's life. When you grow up you'll understand.
I have been in mental hospitals and met ex skinheads that ran in gangs turn their entire life around and become the kindest and most thoughtful men. Battling drug addiction and life of racist indoctrination and still fight to be good people.
I personally suffered through extreme childhood abuse in ways that should have killed me or broke my mind. For most of my 20s I was incredibly lost and in abusive relationships that made me a version of myself that was destructive to those in my life.

Do I not deserve the space to grow? To know love and realize I am deserving of it despite what I've been through and what I've done?
Ofc I do, in the same way you do as well.
You must step out of the black and white view you're stuck in. People can't be split into two categories. We are all full of good and evil and nuance.
Also just to remind you, this is literally a story. It's not real, Heiner is not going to jump from the page and attack you if you don't say he deserves love. It's not real so it doesn't matter lmao.

*nuance kid. Nuisance is what you are lmao.

Also umm you actually can't enjoy nuance if you insist the story has to end a specific way. I'm ok if they don't end up together. And im ok if they do.

clocked it girl omg!!! I am so greatful there are people like you in the world. If we all had the mindset of "if they did something wrong, eliminate them" all the time, then we would all have been seriously fucked up.

Same to you!! Hopefully this kid wakes up and realizes how dumb their argument was here. Hope they grow from this