Mucho TEXTO from me

You SAID IT girl (๑•ㅂ•)و✧

I also want to add TJ's inferiority complex, and how he's holding onto Jason's words, part of the reason why he treated Ian like that. He believed jason words where he said distant is necessary (but jason said this to keep them safe, as how close relationship would put it as weakness especially in gang world, and the rival mafia could y'know... Kill one of them to threaten them as the person is their weakness) the reason why he's playing a game of push and pull with ian, and Jason words kinda work because Ian always went back to him. Also want to point out how TJ witnessed Ian easily lost interest with his exes, he broke up fast, and TJ probably felt like if they became boyfriend, Ian would quickly lost interest just like Ian's past relationship. Lol it's so much text XD

Actual banger of a spot on analysis, you win this comment section ngl

even as a tj stan i mostly agree w u except for the last part where u said “(unless) tj magically changes in a last minute which would be strange because this man is consistent for 20 years already”. most people haven’t noticed this but he has been changing since the beginning of the story. i’d even go as far as to say that so far in the story, tj has had the most <positive> development. tj is introduced as this psychotic, obsessive ex that believes ian belongs to him, and that nobody other than him can handle ian. we see the dirty tactics he used to keep ian w him. but then we also slowly see him realising he actually values ian’s safety AND his happiness above keeping ian by his side. we see him leaving quietly when he sees ian smiling w jo. when he almost gets into that car crash when jason dies, ian comes running to him. tj’s monologue says he felt relief seeing ian’s worried face, relief that ian wasnt in the car with him. this is a stark contrast to the previous tj who would be happy when ian was worrying over him. ian says he’ll kill the people who tried to harm him, and tj warns him to stay away from the funeral. this was tj’s chance to rope ian back into the gang with him like he’s always wanted, but he doesn't do that. instead, he disappears after the funeral to keep ian away from the mess. i used to think its a lil unrealistic for tj who has been doing the same shit for like 15 years to have development so suddenly, but i believe it’s a conscious choice by doyak to show him changing right after jason dies. we also see tj questioning his decision to remain in the gang (his words: “what exactly have i been doing this for all this time?”). we see him selling the california house which i personally saw as him moving out of jason’s influence since jason promised to build them all houses. i would also like to point out that tj would never marry a woman while keeping ian on the side: he had the opportunity to marry Big Boss’s daughter and move up the ladder of the gang quite easily yet he refused to do so. also, after he leaves we have a whole monologue of tj where he admits that he did everything to keep ian by his side: keeping his scar etc etc. and then he thinks: “you’re free now, do what you want.” he lets go of ian. u could say well back in the bathroom he was back to the same old bullshit, which is realistic imo. yes he made up his mind to let ian go, but his obsession has lasted 20 years.

one v important thing that i would like to correct u on is that jason never said those things to tj to keep the two of them safe. jason was NOT a good guy. jason wanted complete control over tj to mold him to his liking. however, with ian always by tj’s side, doing so wouldn't be easy. this is why he suggested motocross racing to ian. this is why he told tj to have his walls up. hell, jason even knew david kim was interested in ian and would bring trouble, but didnt do anything to warn them. jason took advantage of a very vulnerable teenager, fed him bullshit to rope him further into the gang because he saw “potential” in a child. tj is and always will be a victim of jason’s grooming, which does NOT excuse his actions towards ian but should be acknowledged. sorry for the lengthy rant but fuck jason he’s literally scum of the earth, im so glad he died suffering.

I understand your point, and I do see the subtle change in tj, but when he "let go" and let "ian free" he thinks of Jason's words even in the car, that's Jason's influence, he's been doing this push and pull game. And there's even words of him questioning using Jason's words while remembering Jason. Holding it as if that's a mantra that ian would come back after their distant/separation.

Jason is indeed a manipulative gang man, and indeed he did this to keep his gang established, but he also the one who let go of ian, and he felt guilt (hence the money) Distraction isn't something that can be afforded in gang life.

For me the last changing (after so long) of TJ is a depiction of his tragedy. His ending would be "it's too late" kinda thing. Also of course he wants to keep Ian safe, like OBVIOUSLY DUH lol, if ian got harmed then he would lose Ian. And gang life is harsh even when you quit, people who hold grudges on you would try to bite your ass. Tj keeping ian safe is not his change, he's already doing that since in their youthful days. Though his way was wrong.

Selling the mansion, the reason hasn't yet been revealed, but we can assume it's his development.

Cmiiw but there's inner monologue of Jason, correction “not literally saying want to keep them safe”, but he noticed how destructive their closeness is, and even there's panel of him staring at tj, and his creepy conversation with his wife. I'm too lazy to re read to drop the chapter number.

The thing with ian and tj, I see the next arc as their closure, but I can be wrong. Ian might go back to tj again, knowing all the truth, and then using excuse to protect jo. The foreshadowing for jo, tj, and ian, are still hanging and dyk would for sure fire it in this season.

And

Yep I never trust grown man adopting "kids" into gang, unrelated a bit, that's why I dislike Jaeil from Pearl Boy lol.

The damage TJ did to Ian is more than the goods he did to him.

And I always think TJ wont marry a woman though, but it's just SKSKSKSSK at least deny it when Ian screamed that in toilet, he just froze and didn't even try to say something. He's just too stunned with Ian's confrontation.

I'm NOT defending tj, but ian is also the one who got addicted to TJ's obsessive eyes. Though he felt guilty about it rather than validated, he also used tj as his replacement for addiction, he used tj for emotional anchor of his reminder about his karma and sins. Ian is not a saint lol. He knows yet he can't put a stop to it.

Though funnily enough, he got euphoric and validated seeing Jo's being obsessive eyes. Even become a poet talking about Jo's blue flame eyes.

Ian is messy, and not in a way that I blame him, it's just how he is after so long in that kind of environment and how he saw the "love" around his mother. Though his messiness is indeed part of TJ's influence, but not entirely.

hmmm when u refer to the car scene, are u talking about tj's near-accident? (chap 38-40) bc i didnt rly see him thinking about jason except the part where he says its not time for him to die yet.

& you're right about how tj has always wanted to keep ian safe, but imo this was the first time he realised he values his safety ABOVE keeping him tied to him through the gang. like u mentioned, tj put ian in jail, made him pay protection money, had men restrain him bc he didnt want ian to go away. that's what tj wanted the most; ian by his side in the gang. chap 38 is the turning point though - tj actively starts pushing ian away from the gang, and in turn, from himself, even though ian's fully ready to come back. idk i think thats like a pretty pivotal point of his character development.

i do think jason realised tj's unhealthily obsessed w ian (esp after the whole leg breaking incident) BUT i believe his reason for trying to keep them apart was mainly to fully keep tj under his grasp.

AND GOD PLEASE i can see this whole thing ending w tj changing and realising things too late ending up alone and that breaks my heart LMAOOOOO on one hand it IS a pretty realistic character arc for him but on the other this shits gonna haunt me for the rest of my life </3

on another note, what do u think about jo's growing obsession with tj? (only asking bc youre one of the saner jo stans and i wanna hear yalls pov). like, there's this darker side to jo that has been hinted at since the beginning of the manhwa (him dreaming of tj, him stopping tj and ian from meeting, him ejaculating on ian's sleeping face, him saying "its all because of that guy isnt it" while having sex w ian but then them never talking about it, not to mention him almost killing jamie). like, on one hand it could just be doyak's way of showing his human, jealous side, but idk..... there's also this emphasis on jo having four bullets remaining in his gun. <some> tj stans think jo's gonna end up shooting tj, (i dont think he will, but he IS firing the gun at somebody fs), while i've seen others say tj's gonna end up hurting jo. idk. what do u think?

I'm not saying you r defending. What u want to say is that though Tj may have had a lil character dev, those good deeds are overshadowed by the bad ones since the damage of his actions are far more greater than good ones

*i

I think I’m not a "stan." I’m a reader who reads for the plot, and I can’t help that if I want to see a "good" ending, it doesn’t have to be sunshine and rainbows. Then Jo is the option. And if it turns into a tragedy ending and she chooses TJ, honestly, I can’t change the author’s mind. It’s her story, and how she wants to execute it all depends on her.

Also, about the "obsession with TJ" thing .... rather than obsession with TJ, I see it as part of Jo’s obsession with Ian. He knew Ian had a longer history with TJ. He’s perceptive about Ian and could see him hurting because of "that man." Rather than calling it "obsession with TJ," I see it as normal jealousy from someone who’s in love. Let’s be real lol you wouldn’t be calm after knowing your boyfriend/girlfriend’s exes, especially if they shared a long history. So I don’t know why this is being seen as something bad (?). It’s common for male lead to feel jealous. He stopped Ian and TJ from talking because it felt like he saw Ian hurting based on his expression (even though he didn’t know the exact reason).

I often see TJ fans frame this as something negative about Jo, like the moment he stopped Ian and TJ, or the moment he dreamed about TJ and Ian. But that’s a form of his anxiety. He knew Ian and TJ shared a history, and he knew Ian had slept with TJ too. For me, it’s a non-issue. Like… come on. We’re used to this trope of the male lead getting jealous when their love interest is close to someone else. And it’s not just Joseph who acts like this in the story. The first time TJ saw Jo, he immediately thought, "This guy gets on my nerves," and he spied on him. Both male leads are depicted as “obsessive” in their own different way.

As for the part where Jo comes on Ian’s face at the end of the day, it's a BL lol. He’s morally gray. And the author often uses depiction as a tool to create something dramatic. That moment is clearly showcasing his obsession with Ian, his possessive side. It’s part of his duality: he’s kind and gentle, yet rough in bed. You know that trope "His face is pretty but he’s actually a freak in bed. He's gentle nature but he's a monster when it's come to sexual, he's a nerd with glasses but he's a freak" We see that all the time in BL. And Doyak, despite fans glazing her writing, still uses plenty of cliche BL tropes in the dynamics of tjyw and JoIan.

I’ll be honest too, I don’t see Jo using a gun as something dramatic . It’s to be expected in self-defense. How he uses the gun is what matters, and being able to use a gun ≠ being a psychopath. I’ve been to a shooting range, lol. I’m a kind person. I wouldn’t use a gun because it’s illegal for self-defense in my country, but in the US? In the setting of Wet Sand, even regular people can own guns. So I don’t see this as "oh, he has a dark side," but more like, "he used a gun to defend something important." Yes, he almost fired it at Jamie, but again, Doyak used that as a narrative tool, with Ian stopping Jo. It’s a dramatic effect of Ian "saving" Jo from getting dragged further into darkness, which is something Ian wants to protect. (The previous synopsis about jo geting into the dark. Doyak want it to feel like Jo is getting evil somehow, but it's underwhelming like damn it's just a gun ... But anyway, the story make it as if jo shooting would be something "dark" and I can't argue with that, even though I don't understand why shooting someone that we deemed bad as negative thing in wet sand lmao, but wet sand want you to feel like that. So anyway, it's the tool again)

And I still don’t understand why people call Joseph being wary of TJ "obsessive about tj" You witness your crush turning pale and being affected by this TJ guy, of course you’d be worried about what happened between them. His dream is also about TJ bragging that he knows Ian’s body well, which shows Jo’s awareness that he’s still new in Ian’s life. And Jo even understands the TJyw dynamic when they talk together in that winter scene while staring at the scenery. He doesn’t say anything bad about TJ, despite being wary of him. He even would wait until Ian himself told him.

We even see Jo mentioning TJ again in the latest chapter to tell Ian tj was calling, he didn't hide it.

Honestly, Joseph very much can shoot and how he uses it later, and for what reason, matters. I think Doyak will frame it again as his dark side. Though for me that's kinda silly to use gun as depiction of darkness (though I understand gun can be good and bad) lol but it's what it's, and Ian didn't want jo tu use it ... Whatever. Gun is being used as depiction tool again. Though Joseph is impulsive yet he's persistent, I dont think he would stay still when Ian goes back to gang again ... Or we could see him choosing to protect his family, but in what way, we still waiting for the next chapter.

Ts was fire twin

This is so real. They always try to frame it as him being obsess with TJ. They also for some reason can't understand why Jo like Ian like TJ has such a good reason for it when both TJ and Jo like Ian because he is attractive and their bond only strengthen through the situation they went through. But Jo liking Ian is so hard to understand.

TJ and Jo also have a bit of parallel, TJ fell for Ian when Ian noticed TJ kept on staring on him and not saying anything lol. And jo fell for Ian by accidentally took a pic of him, admired how handsome he is BUT he then tell Ian about it and asked "I will delete the pic" – both mls fell at the first sight.

And also I have my own theory of why it's quick for Jo to fall for Ian and how he got obsessed with him (I wont talk about the fate symbolism like how they're somehow when thinking about each other always gaze at the sky, or the meteor showers come in 20 years and they stargazing together, or about orion and artemis despite doyak denying the importance of this but we keep seeing the references in the plot lol or how they're connected by nature because that's subtle elements that people somehow refused to talk about of joian relationship, it's like a chaotic mess that bite ian ass (and jo), is a "punishment" from goddess of fate, whether or not he would work for this fate or refused it and stay with his familiar life)

I think they match each other freak, it's like magnetic pull. And my theory is kinda silly, that they're soulmate and validate each other "hidden" freakiness just look at the euphoric chapter where jo said "everything", the validation is "too good to be true" and it makes him feel like he doesn't deserve to taste that so he left Jo to protect this one person he care.

Also Ian lied a lot to protect jo, I think a lot of people don't notice this as Ian's face always have lack emotions as that's his character description. He told different version avoiding to let people know how close he's with jo. Saying different thing to tj, jamie, and big teddy. I just realized it after reading the chapter when ian met big teddy that ian hid a lot to make it as if jo didn't matter so people would leave him alone. I might be reaching a bit, but I feel confident about 30% because toby is validating me

we can agree to disagree then. while i dont believe jo's a secret psychopath or anything lmao i personally think theres a bigger reason behind all these moments other than just showing his jealous side. esp the time where him and ian had sex recently and he said something along the lines of "its all because of that man isnt it" and ian was like, what???, but then jo cut him off w a kiss and they never talked about it. doyaks already drawn parallels between him and young tj, so maybe its to show that unlike tj jo wouldnt cross the line of no return (which imo would be a stupid comparision bc jo is a normal sane adult while tj was a vulnerable kid but whatever) or maybe something else idk idk ANYWAY THANKS FOR REPLYING !!!!! ur reply was interesting

"it's all because of that man isn't it"

This is vague, so I don't think it's relate to "bigger reason" but it's always free to make theory, my guess :

It can be, jo thinks ian killed the stalker because of tj, whether he assumed it's to protect tj or seeing it as ian losing control because of any relation with tj that made him kill the stalker. (Jo still didn't know the stalker is targeting him instead)

Or because he's seeing ian who avoided the conversation of the murder, while provoking Jo into having sex, ian was horny asf (jo didn't know that ian got horny because he heard Jo's "everything" word – it could be jo assumed the sex is a habit of Ian while he's in the gang, using sex after murdering someone to release the adrenaline. And jo couldn't help but got angry that's why he said "because of that man isn't it?")

If I want to know, what's your assumptions on that scene then?

My personal reason of why I don't think Jo "obsessed" with tj, and had a "bigger reason" behind his word is simply because Jo despite being wary and jealous about Ian's bond with tj. He understood TJ (not in literal defending tj way) he said that if Ian were in TJ's place, ian would do the same thing (on the context of their conversation is about tj disappearing to protect Ian) – so like, Jo was so kind, he understood and calm Ian's mind with Ian admitted that he would SKSKSKS, even Jo thought that Ian still love TJ, but tj fans always suspicious towards him, he has so many chace to preach moral and bad mouth tj work, but he never said something like that about tj. But like I honestly get it, two mls rival, ofc some would have a darker theory. But that simple word from jo assure me that, despite jo being jealous, he wouldn't be the one to intentionally hurt TJ. If he had to do that, then it would revolve around his need to protect Ian.

i’ve got pretty similar thoughts like a few moments before jo says this, he also tells ian he’s broken. so he might be blaming tj for everything wrong w ian (in a way he’d be right but also. hmmmm). i dont have a problem w him saying this, what i found concerning was that him and ian dont talk about it later. jo barely knows anything about the gang, about taejoon, and the dynamics between ian and him, about anything actually. so i just fear that it could lead to some sort of misunderstanding when they finally do confront each other. this brings me back to the gun again: idk if u remember but back when jo went to visit his family and retrieve his revolver, there was this weird focus on the gun and the number of bullets. there was also this bit where jo was shown cutting open a rabbit, and a picture of him holding a dead rabbit up. (chap 35 for reference).

normally i wouldnt focus on this sm but w doyak nothing's included just for funsies, so i cant help but be wary of the guy, especially if u consider all of his other “jealous” moments. couple this up w his (in my opinion) clark kent syndrome, but then doyak also saying the story isn't about one guy saving another. hmm. i also remember reading somewhere that as the story progresses we’ll find out the characters arent who we thought they were. if i look at taejoon, i detested the guy in the beginning. but he’s been slowly, without people realising, developing and changing and i find him the easiest to figure out. ian isnt confusing to me either. with jo, u can think of his recent actions as heroic, but thats not what i see personally. like, with taejoon, he’s definitely a better man than he was in chap 1. if i talk about jo, i cant say the same. again, IN MY OPINION, i cant really say his character has developed in the positive direction. he’s always been kind and nice, yet the streak of possessiveness he had is definitely more apparent now. this is NOTTTTT to say he's evil, or that he's worse than tj, or that he's the bad guy of the manhwa. its just an observation.

ps/ OH and not to mention the part where he unintentionally saves tj from the car blast, and tj saying something like “i ended up owing my life to him”. there was an emphasis on this bit especially. i could obviously be wrong, and there’s a big chance the opposite might happen (tj hurting jo instead), but this is how i’ve been interpreting things so far.

Jo stans would jump me if I say I'm excited IF he's going apeshit, and I get your point. There's a lot of foreshadowing that make us feel like "Damn what Jo's gonna do" also his symbolism to nature, woods, his orion symbol on physical book, his duality, and yeah I think the reason why they don't talk about tjyw relationship is because if I'm not mistaken there's an inner monologue of Jo is basically want ian to be comfortable enough to share about it, but I can see it can lead to misunderstanding.

And now ... After the latest chapter, the wedding would be in the woods. And the person that been connected to this is Joseph, it makes me think what he gonna do in the wedding? Though some people think he wont attend.

I think there would be moment where jo got into action, but my personal reason of why it won't be "jo hurting tj" is because TJ has his own foreshadowing, he has his own "tragedy" vibes with broken glass, cops, ex gf, his gang, and Jamie (this guy has nothing to lose now)

I dont think they would die but one of them will get hurt, but still it's unpredictable and we can only guess.

Also I get it, doyak made it as if jo counting bullets and dissecting rabbit as something sinister, she want us to feel that way but I'm used seeing animals dying for us to eat, so that scene didn't really bother me at first. But I know doyak want us to feel creep out about this, so I'm waiting for jo to let out the black in his ying, whatever that gonna be. As much as I don't really excited about tj as he's just typical mafia character in my eyes, I hope he'd be safe in that wedding though.

Though like in the character description, in the English translation it's not translated well, in English there's a description of jo put his family first, and in korean the nuance is more like "devoted" – and readers can easily just "oh he cares about his family, he helps his aunt in restaurants" – but this makes me think of Chris lol, that guy gonna die or something (fifty fifty theory) or something gonna happen to him that make jo react.