I really hate that Mitsuru was not honest. If I was shougo i'd not be abel to face Mitsuru...

Think about why your post was downvoted and not upvoted. You are victim blaming and being enablers of abuse, BOTH you and asdf. Asdf also seems to think rape doesn't happen if someone enjoys it. SICK.

I explained it above. Do read and become more compassionate, mmkay????

What do you mean? Its upvoted.

in that video mitsuru was asking for more and it's why that guy could make mitsuru think like shougo wouldn't want him anymore, and shougo didn't wanted mitsuru to met with his ex tho he was insecure about it and what mitsuru did? he said it will be okay, nothing gonna happen and even said "don't you trust me" when it was obvious ex was going hard and wouldn't go away easily, mitsuru IS the victim of the manga yes but he did mistakes too

No doubt that Mitsuru made mistakes, more like bad decisions, but your arguments are blaming him for mistakes he, in my opinion, should not be blamed for. This would be long if I explain about the video so I'll go with the "don't you trust me". Mitsuru wanted to end things properly with Kouichi, after all they never talked it out, Mitsuru just left, went completely AWOL. Mitsuru didn't know Kouichi was capable of raping him. Mitsuru just wanted to talk and it was his mistake to trust Kouichi but who would have known he's that obsessed? Well, we readers do but Mitsuru and Shougo didn't. Yeah, it was a mistake to go with Kouichi in a private location but Mitsuru's actions and decisions after he got raped are not to be blamed on him.

but didn't kouichi show kind of obsession before?? he came to mitsuru right after he got married and was being pushy? mitsuru tried to make him go away but he didn't listen and they end up having sex again, mitsuru weak towards to kouichi, he wanted to be loved by him so badly that he can't resist him after a point even if he wants, kouichi knows that, he knows how to control and manipulate him, and mitsuru aware of his weakness as well this is why accepting to met with him was a mistake imo accepting to meet with your ex that didn't wanted to end things was a mistake imo I'm really not try to blame him I'm just saying he shouldn't have met with someone like kouichi or he should have gone with shougo

Mitsuru was with Kouichi for 5 years and probably never once did Kouichi hurt Mitsuru the way he did in the hotel. Sure Kouichi was scary as fuck in chapter 1 and forced Mitsuru to have sex with him but Mitsuru never would have predicted Kouichi would go so far as to pin him down, bite him till he bleeds, burn him with cigarette and put a leash and pull it till he choked. Also, Mitsuru is co-dependent on his partners. Co-dependency is a legit and serious psychological case. Mitsuru thought he was fine and can hold up his own when he was Shougo. He thought he was fixed up and can handle Kouichi. Actually, both needed that talk. Imagine if they were normal people, closure is important in a break up, especially as bad as theirs. Shougo coming along does not look appropriate, does it?

Whether Mitsuru went with Shougo, or he decided to refuse Kouichi going to the hotel, Mitsuru may have been still raped. Kouichi is that crazy. It could have been prevented or not. Mitsuru's mistake was probably when he never had the time to be with himself since he never learned to stand on his own, he has only depended on other people and never on himself. He tried to be independent by going alone but because he never actually learned it, he failed terribly.

I really don't want to trivialise this, I'm actually kind of being serious as odd as it sounds... Mitsuru didn't know he was in a BL manga.
Who would realistically assume that somebody they dated for 5 years would be capable of suddenly raping and abusing them?? I agree that Mitsuru is weak to Kouichi, as I said somewhere above there's something unhealthy and codependent about their relationship from the start. But remember, the meeting was actually in a public place, in a coffee shop or something from the looks of it. That's fine! And like I said, it's actually good, and normal, to have a closure talk if your ex is any kind of regular person.

BUT Kouichi manages to convince Mitsuru that discussing the end of their gay relationship can't be done in public, and Mitsuru lets Kouichi dictate where they go next, because I feel that he always let Kouichi dictate the terms of their relationship. This was the mistake (or rather, bad decision, as pennyinheaven says). But he's not at all to blame for the fact that he didn't expect what happened as a result.

And in that video, it's not definite... but we don't know what Kouichi might have been doing to him to make him "obedient". Afterwards, Mitsuru just wants to get home to Shougo. That breaks my heart. Yeah, maybe he didn't want to tell Shougo what happened. From what I understand (luckily for me, not much) that might be pretty normal for victims of sexual assault. But he's got the evidence all over his body (burn marks, bruises etc) so I think he expected that Shougo would "find out," and would forgive him for what happened. Which HE WOULD HAVE. Letting Mitsuru see that he'd sent the video was a masterstroke because then Kouichi could manipulate Mitsuru while he was panicking.

but we don't talk normal people here right? they aren't normal they both have too many problems but he did forced him before, he stalked him, he showed every signs of obsession, and wouldn't easy to talk with but now I can understand why mitsuru went alone with the reasons you're saying I was having hard time to understand why and you helped me alot so thank you

idk but maybe you would if that ex forced you before, stalked you and made it obvious that didn't wanted to end thing even if you want?? mitsuru went to meeting with him knowing all those, he went to a hotel room with his ex that forced him before that said before didn't want to give mitsuru to anyone else, that knows all about mitsuru's weakness.

kouichi is his ex, they dated for years, I'm sure he knows how to make his body feel the pleasure, make him focus on the pleasure that is why the video had power to make mitsuru think like shougo wouldn't want him anymore cause he body able to resist kouichi and it's the main reason why he didn't want to tell what happened to shougo cause though his heart didn't wanted, his body did want and this is why kouichi was able to control him that easily

It's hard to tell on that video. It could be that Kouichi forced him to say those or he did on his own, which I wouldn't be surprised if he did. I am always pointing back to the time Shougo convinced Mitsuru into the relationship when he was not ready since to me at that point it was never right for Mitsuru to be in one yet. Because Mitsuru and Kouichi never had a closure and Mitsuru never had the time to recuperate, even when he was with Shougo and was already happy with him, his feelings for Kouichi was still there. Just hanging at the back of his head, unknowingly. He might have thought he was over him but upon getting pummeled and receiving pleasure in between the pain, those feelings might have come back to be evaluated and weighed again, thus during the video there were moments where Mitsuru was voicing out his pleasure over sex. Mitsuru missed him and the pleasure but that was only momentary and eventually Mitsuru finally weighed his feelings and chose Shougo but, of course, it was all too late, the video has been sent. Mitsuru's head has been whacked.

Yup the dinner/"talk" was in a public place and it was appropriate. Though, because Mitsuru cannot make sound decisions, he agreed to go to a hotel, which to me is never appropriate. Mitsuru could still have been raped, agreeing to go or not, but his decision on this just proves how warped his super ego is to not be able to discern how inappropriate it was to go with your ex in a hotel room alone. Well, unless Kouichi is knowledgeable on hypnotism, too. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

Yes, they are signs of obsession but they may still be considered okay. I mean if you really want to be with the person you "love", you would do anything to get them back. Kouichi can just be described as a "forceful, possessive lover" up until he burnt and bit Mitsuru. It's the way the panels are drawn that gave you, the reader, the idea or feeling that Kouichi is bad business. If it was drawn in another way, in a more happy and light setting, Kouichi's stalking would be taken as persistence and dedication.

Oh really I helped?! That's great. You're welcome.

Some people just can't deal with being on their own... I'm not like that so I can't fully understand that feeling, and I totally agree that it's much healthier to take a damn break in between relationships, to get over a failed relationship properly. But honestly some people (including people I know and love) cannot handle being single, so they jump from one long-term relationship straight into another. Co-dependent personality types being especially susceptible. I'm not sure Mitsuru could have escaped from Kouichi in the first place - or not for long, anyway - if he didn't have somebody else to be with.

And I'm completely of the opinion that it's never a good idea to go somewhere private, alone, with your ex if you're in a new relationship. Even with a nice, non-obsessive, non-rapist ex, the chances are high that something will happen (something consensual), simply because the sense of connection can stick around for a long time. It's just not a good idea. It doesn't mean that Mitsuru was somehow complicit - but if he was more rational and didn't let Kouichi steer him it would have been much better.

To be cynical for a moment, going to a hotel room as a "private place to talk" seems to be a manga plot device. It happens more often in manga than it could possibly happen in real life. It just doesn't make sense.

Heck, what do I know. I have always been alone. But I guess what I have learned from being alone is that I get to tap into my feelings and be more rational about them than those who are always with people around. Just my observation, or probably it's just me. I don't see anything wrong with jumping from one relationship to another, as long as they can stand on their decisions, unlike Mitsuru or people out there that are too rash or cannot make sound and logical decisions. Then, cry over it. （￣へ￣）

I agree on the plot device. It definitely is. But trying to be in Mitsuru's shoes and how the heck was he lured into going to a hotel, riding the elevator and entering a room, I was thinking he was too trusting on Kouichi and that, of course, his lingering feelings wanting affirmation whether they have truly ceased or not. It could also be that Mitsuru decided that whatever happens, it will only be a one time affair and that's it. Little did he know that he can never handle Kouichi and that it would continue on until Kouichi says "stop".

That is a really, really good observation - even though he was miserable, even though he was scared, even though he wanted to be with somebody else, it still took until Kouichi told him to go for Mitsuru to leave him.

I agree with you that he was too trusting of Kouichi! I said in another comment thread that from what I could tell, he didn't assume that they would definitely have sex if they went to a hotel. He probably did consider that he might want something to happen - as you said, maybe to sort out his lingering feelings. But I think he assumed that he could say no and leave if/when he wanted to, which was actually what he ended up trying to do because he chose Shougo. He tragically underestimated the risk of the situation, and the hold Kouichi had on him mentally, emotionally and physically. Poor Mitsuru (〜￣△￣)〜

I slept sorry. But I'm back.
Self-respect. Mitsuru didn't have that. I cannot say that I have so much respect for myself but as another insecure individual, my tendency is to block everything to protect myself from getting hurt, emotionally (I don't care much about physical pain). Which may be the complete opposite to Mitsuru's insecurity, where he is too open for people to run him over and it's more based on luck if he ends up with a decent guy (Shougo) or a fucked up one (Kouichi). Back at MRM, I've drawn a conclusion with another reader that a damaged person can either be too susceptible or too guarded.

Both are not commendable traits but one can and might save you from getting abused, emotionally and physically but importantly avoid hurting yourself and other people. One can also allow you to make a relatively more sound judgement, than get dragged into a hotel room. Or hit back on your abuser for self-defense, it will never be too late to hit them even after getting raped. Or sense that the person you are with can never be trusted.

All of these are not possible since Mitsuru does not have the capability to think this way since he is too open and dependent on their people to lead him on and make decisions for him. He wanted to though, because he thought he can just leave the room and Kouichi will let him but Kouichi isn't sane. Mitsuru is not capable to adjust to the situation that will benefit him. I've gone Dr. Phil on a fictional character again. Lol but I just can't help but explain because Mitsuru has a condition, so I don't think he should be hated. Should he be hated, they must be for well-thought of reasons. Gosh, I learn so much from this series, which may not be good since I'm more scared about relationships now.

Hope you slept well!! I didn't, I only got a few hours in between my last 2 comments. (￣∇￣")
It's such a deceptively deep story! And Mitsuru is a really interesting character, I could keep talking about him for ages! He's an odd mix in some ways - he does have enough self-respect to know immediately that he should leave Kouichi when the asshat told him he got married. Bravo. And in a lot of ways he was very determined to get away from him, even moving to a different apartment so Kouichi couldn't ambush him at home again. He was honest with Shougo from the start and tried to move on and make his relationship with Shougo work and make it more of an equal, two-way thing. And he knew immediately in the hotel room that he didn't want to be with Abusive Guy, he wanted to be with the guy who treated him well. No Stockholm Syndrome for Mitsuru, thankfully, he's miserable for the 2 months Kouichi keeps him trapped (largely through psychological/emotional coercion).

But at the same time, he had never managed to fully sever all ties, he'd left the one opening of not changing his phone number. He could have changed his number and kept Kouichi's in case he ever wanted to get in touch, but made sure Kouichi couldn't get in touch with him. I suspect that part of him was reassured that Kouichi kept on calling him, like he was testing how much Kouichi cared about him and how long he'd keep trying. That's dangerous ground.

I think you're right that he's mostly very dependent on others, and lets himself be led. As you say, that can work out well with luck - Shougo was helping him get stronger - or it can be a disaster with someone like Kouichi. Kouichi wanted to keep Mitsuru weak, it's like he wanted a doll programmed to be the "Mitsuru" he had in his mind. The sheer brutality of his frustration that Mitsuru wouldn't act and feel as he wanted is scary.

In real life I'm the guarded type, like you - but because of trust issues, in my case. I never really believe in people so it's almost impossible to let them in, emotionally. When I actually agree to be in a relationship with someone (generally I prefer no-strings-attached), it's usually someone I like, but know I can leave. Not exactly a recipe for happily ever after! So I'm not one to talk about relationships being wonderful... but my best friend and her partner of 13 years (he's also one of my best friends by now) are a pretty good example of a lovely, trusting, honest, supportive, funny, sexy relationship. They do exist!

EXACTLY! I was so proud of him for leaving Kouichi! It took time, a couple of months before he did. He was used as a doormat for a time before he managed to leave, which is understandable. He was in a state of shock and it takes guts to do so. It's inevitable to have a lingering thought that if he stayed, Kouichi might just do what he says, divorce her and comeback to him. But of course, it's not right to stay in that relationship so he left, and that's good! I also commend him for being reluctant to go with Shougo because he knows he is not over Kouichi and I actually think it was not right for Shougo to insist. But they happened and I agree that their relationship was honest. Both are aware that Kouichi still hangs over them and that they are in a rebound relationship. Shougo accepts it and Mitsuru is working in himself to completely accept Shougo.

And as beautiful as it sounds, it didn't help Mitsuru. Mitsuru had a false hope on himself that he can stand on his own. I'm happy that he wanted to be independent but unfortunately he never did. Shougo didn't help since as you said and this chapter revealed, he has a doll programmed Mitsuru in mind. That is not a healthy mindset for someone who is supposed to help Mitsuru. Thus, Mitsuru didn't actually grow out of the state he was in with Kouichi.

Everything you said about being guarded, yup that's me, too. It's self-defense, I can't handle myself getting hurt and make stupid decisions out of love. It's hard to find a word to replace stupid but logically speaking, they are, and I don't want to ever find myself using love or men/partner as an excuse to justify those decisions. In other words, I'm just a coward and I don't mind admitting it. Good for you that your best friend is in a good relationship, my environment isn't like that. The only perfect couple that I know is on YT. ╮(￣▽￣)╭