Random thoughts

-continuation-

You had said "who's the uke? Is objectification", how exactly? if this question is being posed, then they haven't seen the couple have sex and they think either could do either role. This question basically implies a blank canvas, they could see it going ANY way, otherwise they wouldn't be discussing "who's what" because they'd already have an idea. How do you objectify a blank canvas? Is it the DECIDING you have issue with? Because it was originally the question itself that irritated you. I can KIND OF see your point if your issue is with the DECIDING of who is what. But the question itself doesn't objectify or assign aspects because, again, the question itself goes outside that line of thought. "who is what" implies they could see it go any way, which is the OPPOSITE of assigning them a role, its being pretty sure they could do whatever they want. The reason i could only KIND OF see your point if you take issue with the DECIDING is because, when they say "i think he'll top/bottom" that doesn't imply a measure of time. They aren't "assigning him a role", they're just noting that to them he seems the more submissive of the two, he looks like he wants to be fucked. They just think that if they were to have sex he MIGHT be the bottom, not for any certain period of time, they could switch whenever as, again, if the positions were clear cut they wouldn't be discussing who will fill what role. Something i think should be made clear is that: saying "i think they'll top/bottom" DOESN'T mean you think it'll always be like that, it's just an pbservation on who you think wants to be fucked.

I mean, i GUESS i could see some people disassociating the BL fantasy from irl BL... Though you'd have to do some real mental gymnastics... That's like those guys who say they aren't gay but give their friends blowjobs and like it. I still wouldn't call that "homophobia", i'd call it denial because, whether they like it or not, they had the option to read straight manga and chose yaoi. They have an interest in it and aren't as repulsed as they'd like others to believe. Keep culture in mind, in Korea it isn't okay to be gay, they're probably just saying what society wants them to think.

As a gay person, i dont feel offended when i read comments like who's top or bottom cause i also ask those question myself haha. yes there is no assign role in real life but there are real people out there that prefers bottoming or topping.
also calling yaoi(BL) "is just fantasy" is not being homophobic cause its true that yaoi are fantasy stories.

im gay but don't hate homophobic people, cause different people have different opinions i dont need acceptance by every people in the world as long as they dont hit me in the face lol.

also being a fujoshi doesn't mean they accept gay people unconditionally, we dont know maybe most girls on this site never met a gay person before. maybe they'll change their mind after meeting one because expectation did not met reality haha

Easy example for the ones who seems to just cannot get it: some straight, homophobic men have fantasies about fucking with two women (lesbians). They want to see them make out, it's hot, but be able to fuck them, too. Now, if these two women were to come out and say I am a lesbian and deserves my birth given right as a human being living on this Earth, they would be denied it by those men and be subjected to all levels of oppression. But those men still find two women making out hot and fucking each other hot, but they just want to intervene when they want and they do not want these two women to actually be gay. That's a form of homophobia and many foujoshis suffer from it. I know, I've come into contact with many.

Blanket statements for the win? You didn't give any context in that example, no country/religions involved/culture. In america there isn't a man who could deny lesbians their human rights. Also, you didn't give any insight into this "oppression" either. I've literally never heard of a guy thinking lesbians shouldn't exist... I honestly think gay men have it infinitely harder here. It is WAY more "natural" in the average hetero person's eyes for 2 women to experiment. From my personal experience it was always the outed gays that got attention while as the lesbians would just be considered as "hot" or "wild". By both men and women. Also, to be frank, i wouldn't believe you if you told me you'd actually met a man who thinks lesbians are hot and jacks off to them etc, but is repulsed by lesbians and wants them to not exist. Paradox much? ╮(￣▽￣)╭ I think you're the one detached from reality and not understanding things.

Wooooooowwwww i can't even with this comment. I'm glad you have known so many good people then. I know many people like @Lovena said, sadly.
And there are many HOMOPHOBIC behaviors that come from people that don't consider themselves homophobic.
And yeah, they objectify lesbians but then they say things like "you haven't tasted a real sick yet" etc. I wish it was rare. It's not. If you don't know those kind of people, you're really lucky. If you're gay and you haven't found this kind of discrimination, I envy you. But right now, you're doing kind of the same "your experience is not true" thing and I find that very sad.
Since I don't want the people who answered this first to keep getting notifications from this thread, if you want me to further discuss this contact me by pm.(￣∇￣")

**a real dick (thanks autocorrect)

That's less homophobia and more sleazebags being sleazebags (in the context you just gave that example). I"ve gotten that same question plenty of times, "how do you know you're gay if you haven't tried it with a chick?", i never viewed that question itself as homophobic as it's just curiosity. This is the same as the last example you gave, you're taking harmless questions/statements as homophobia. Asking "how do you know?" or saying "i have gay friends, i'm not homophobic" doesn't automatically mean they're a homophobe... What matters is context and intentions, i've been saying this repeatedly, but you're either of the homophobic mindset or you're not with no in-betweens. What you SAY doesn't matter, people have trouble communicating and articulating all the time. What matters is how you think and feel about gays. Saying something offensive isn't the same as being homophobic and words can be taken back/corrected. As far as me "doing the same and denying their hardships", i did no such thing, i gave my own personal experience and made sure to use words like "mostly, in general, etc" to show that i'm not saying everywhere is the same as my personal experience... I don't know how you take everything the way you do and get offended so much when i'm literally tailoring my speech to not be as offensive... Who thknks everywhere works exactly how they're used to anyways? Pay attention to my wording, i do it on purpose because, again, words are important. As far as PMing you, i dont want to, i'm just responding to you at this point and no one else has complained about it.

>also calling yaoi(BL) "is just fantasy" is not being homophobic cause its true that yaoi are fantasy stories.

BL is indeed just a fantasy story, but the origin of that meme was not that cute. It cames from an interview with fujoshi(s) back then in 2007 when BL manga publication was really raising. Basically those fujoshi ancestry said BL is just fantasy (2D), they don't like 3D gays, they don't like real life gays, they only like BL and BL is just fantasy, don't put 3D and 2D together etc.
Buuuuuuuut youraedthiswrogn does has a point; "they're probably just saying what society wants them to think." cause that interview is 10 years ago, people still close minded, (though some Japanese fujoshi still using that meme until NOW) and the term of "fujoshi" was so derogatory; Rotten girl, rotten cause liking homosexual wasn't socially acceptable back then, fujoshi ancestry using this term to identify themselves, calling themselves rotten so they don't have to feel that guilty. Though I'm sure younger ones don't even know/care what it means.
SO yeah homophobics fujoshi did exist.

oops forgot to quote this

Who is referencing the meme when they say "BL is fantasy"?! Thanks for the trivia i guess, but no one was discussing the meme, you went on a tangent. As far as the fujoshi back then being homophobic, what you just said can be explained by what i said as well. You just said they said "we dont like gays, they just like BL because its fantasy", now i'm assuming they were talking to SOMEONE while saying this yes? Now, what are the odds that the person they were talking to, that knows they read yao as they're asking about it, was open minded and just asking in a neutral tone? They were making a public statement, "i'm not okay with gays! I just read fiction!" only to go home and read yaoi full of shame because of the times. I've said this before, homophobia isn't words, it's a mindset. Being offensive isn't the same as being homophobic. Words can be taken back/corrected and people can say things they don't mean.

It's only more common for gay people who have anal sex (though there are gay couples who do do the "top"/"bottom" thing), a lot of gay people don't even do anal sex. So assuming there is penetration below the belt is heteronormative in itself.

We didn't say anal though, "penetration". Oral sex is sex too. Though i DO think that for a gay to lose their virginity they should have to fuck a guy's ass or be fucked in theirs. That's just a personal opinion, i know that technically if you have your dick in another guy's mouth you're still having sex, hence "oral SEX". It's just a matter of taste to me, doesn't feel like you've really "graduated" till you've had sex with the hole that is clearly meant to be fucked between two men, the prostate being there just makes it concrete for me. Has nothing to do with "oh, one needs to be fucked in the vagina", or whatever "heteronormative" crap you guys keep forcing into other people's mouths without asking their reason for thinking that way. It's more of that the biology, to me, says that that is where men are supposed to do it because, again, prostate. It's an observation, like how you can look at a person's, say, mouth and decide what it's probably used for.

Furthermore, the anus stretches and accommodates gay sex very well, basic observation can lead you to see it is the most ideal place for a man to fuck another man. I don't even consider it "heteronormative" to assume anal penetration either... The urge to penetrate is a basic, primal urge and considering that the anus is the most ideal location to partake of this basic human instinct, it makes sense to assume they do anal. I'd argue that the gays who don't do anal are special cases, the minority. Reality is that most gays do anal so it isn't "heteronormative" to assume a logical fact. The odds are more likely that they DO do anal, so it isn't strange to go in assuming.

The urge humans feel is to get off, not necessarily by penetration. Hetero men like to penetrate vaginas when they are horny, so that means most gay men are the same when it comes to anal sex right? No. The anus is not ideal for a lot of people, that includes gay people (even in the more open-minded places). Some don't like being penetrated, nor do they like penetrating back there. It's really a "some do, some don't" thing.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with anal sex (I think it's interesting, and hot when between two guys), but realistically (and statistically) it's not for everyone. Many gay men/couples forgo it. More than you think.

It's hard to disagree with what you're saying, because the way you worded it comes across really broad and vague: "the anus is not an ideal place for A LOT of people", "SOME don't like being penetrated", "it's not for EVERYONE", "MANY gay men/couples forgo it". The issue i take with your response is that it is in response to what I was saying, that being "MOST gay men do anal because it is the most OPTIMAL place for a man to stick his dick in another man". I'm talking higher PERCENTAGES, as in the majority group and when i say the anus is the most OPTIMAL place to be fucked as a man i mean OPTIMAL, not easy. Like, yeah, there're other cases like you're saying, but my point was never that there wasn't. I can't argue with any of the quotes above, but i don't view them as an appropriate counter to what i had said. So, you said "the urge to get off, not necessarily penetrate", what? Forgive me, but this really seems like a huge reach, penetration is definitely a basic male urge. Have you never seen a guy get horny to the point he thrusts his hips? Who goes into sex thinking "i can't wait to cum"? It's "i want to fuck this person in any way i can figure out", for most people that "way" is penetration. Again, the majority.

Since some people are talking about statistics and stuff. A higher percentage of gay men do indeed to anal sex at some time or another than those who don't at all. However, it's not done as frequently as fujoshi and straight people believe. The people who frequently do anal sex are in the minority. Majority of the time, gay men do other things, such as blowjobs or frotting.

[goes back to lurk mode (=・ω・=)]

Thank you. :^) I'm wondering how frequent "frequently" is, gay sex is strenuous on the bottom's body so, of course, it stands to reason that a lot of people would, out of concern for their partner, not push for sex TOO often. There is also prepwork, which can be a hassle to some, so i could see this further limiting the frequency of anal sex and promoting the easier oral sex and foreplay. I guess my point here is that, the way you worded that: "the people who frequently do anal sex are in the minority" can be taken as just a matter of frequency of anal sex for various reasons.