?>_<

Wish it wasn't rape...

He's a masochist, that type of thing can easily turn a masochist on. Especially since Omi seems to have fallen for Subaru right off the bat without realizing it.

he didn't give consent. It is rape. He clearly said no.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to reply with something like that. Nothing I said indicated that I didn't think the seme forced himself on the uke.
Also, no consent does not equal not wanting something (as the character himself made clear in the manga, multiple times and in many ways).

Sorry, but the way you formulated it. it read as if rape was okay when the partner is a masochist and does enjoy it. I heard such things from a couple of people already. It is a common type of defense used by rapist. "She did enjoy it so it wasn't rape." I guess I just wanted to make sure that it is learned that even if the raped part feels enjoyment, without consent, rape remains rape, and thus never is right.

Sorry for the confusion then. Next time I'll add a tiny bit so people know which part of the message I'm replying to (since I was replying to the 'what's with that ending?' part of the OP). My bad. X'D

I personally haven't seen people say that, so far anyway. But I heavily asume there are some twisted minds that will think like that. The entire Omegaverse genre is full of that bs for example, simply because it's about 'being in heat'.

No, I am glad I misunderstood.

I agree. There are a few good OV, but there are far between. But rape is a big problem in a lot of Yaoi and Hentai tbh. I guess it is cultural (and please let's not talk about japanese rape law) but it doesn't really make anything better. At the end I am often concerned that some young readers might get the wrong idea based on what they read here...

I actually had to google the law thing, I didn't know Japan was THAT drastic even in things like these. That's disconcerting, to say the least...
You're right, it's a good thing that discussions are held about this in the comments section although I hope younger readers do have th common sense to understand what is wrong and what is not without needing to see people mention it. (At least on a website like this, with stories as we read...people should be old enough to know, hopefully.)
Then again there is the exaggerated opposite of that as well. I have seen too many people scream rape lately, which scared me off of reading some stories until it confused me when I saw it on a story I knew had no rape in it (it was sexual harrassment if I remember correctly, groping and all that). That's quite a problem as well since it waters down the severe term and gives younger people the wrong idea what it even means to begin with.

All in all, I wish manga websites had more detailed/clear warnings in which the uploader can check boxes with all kinds of things found in stories. That would make it MUCH easier for readers to skip certain works.

After reading your comment and the other's I decided to look for more information about rape in Japan and I ended up on Wikipedia.....I just read a part because it was too much for me ...if you're curious look for " Murder of Junko Furuta " . I think I have never read something so cruel and evil like that before ...I know there are a lot of cases of violence but this one ....I just don't understand those kind of people ...why would they do that against someone !!?? It's pure cruelty...

I read about that case. Those evil people deserve so much more punishment. If that was my family, I would skin those people alive. The people who knew and did nothing should be ashamed of themselves, her blood is on their hands.

I agree. That case gave me nightmares
But the thing with rape is that mangas depict rape in such a way that it looks appealing and people think it's love and the victim wants it because of the story built up in the manga..
Honestly, I read manga with rape too of the story is good or the art etc etc and I skip the rape or even stop reading it if I feel the story is going nowhere or its a rape apologist manga..

Yes , i think that can be really dangerous in a sense that could send the wrong message to people . I know , I know , some people will say that mangas can't influence anyone and that is "just fictional " and all but still in my opinion it's dangerous and it can influence for sure . I'm not trying to start a discussion about that ,because I know that everyone have their own opinion about it ...i'm just saying what I think .
I 'm kinda of like that too , but the problem is that once I start reading something I can't let it go ...even if it's not a good manga . I think the only manga that I droped ,it was " Shiiku Gakari rika " ....that one made me feel soo sick . I started to read that one just because some girl commented that it was the kinda of manga that once you start reading you can't let it go ....well i proved to her that is not exactly true. Take a look at it ...if you got curious ....

I guess what we all shouldn't forget is that yaoi was made to satisfy female fetishes. And I wished that this was something I knew earlier. I started with yaoi when I was 13 and sadly back then it was the easiest way for me to get in contact with "lgbtq" (yes the quotation is important!) and sadly it build a wrong image for me. Some years later when I started to question why so many women liked the yaoi and the fetish answer came up. Seeing as non-con is one of the most common fetishes in woman, I don't mind having it in yaoi. Hell, I admit non-con is a fantasy that I pretty like. What bothers me, is, that it seldom got explained that yaoi is fetish work. That even if they portray rape, it is a fetish, and it is okay to enjoy the fetish BUT I am not fine with the flippant way that we talk about it. Rape is fine as a fetish and a fetish ONLY. It is one of the worst crimes in real life and above all, even and especially if someone enjoys the fetish, they should leave their glorifying once they stop reading. I guess I really want that differentiation to happen earlier for new readers, for those who start with yaoi to know that it is a special kind of fiction that has nothing to do with lgbtq and everything with letting women experience their fetishes in a safe way.

I wouldn't be so sure about it. It is not easy as that to define something as rape just at one point. You have to judge them from the beginning until the end.

The uke was resisting in the beginning, we do know this happen a lot at the initiation for sex, but you have to understand that it is ALSO possible that they might change their consent afterwards too. But judging from the uke's POV he wanted it. Like yeah, 'there, there,' but it could also be just the physiological effect and ecstasy that drove him to say that. Who knows. To be definite, we might've to hear from the victim himself.

Well I don't like to be wrong. So, I think it's safer to say it's a dubious consent than total rape.

No is no, end of the story. Even if he went along with it later on, even if he found enjoyment... he still didn't give consent or revoked his no from the beginning. That does make it rape.

And what do you mean by 'we do know this happen a lot at the initiation for sex'? In Yaoi, hell yes. But Yaoi is a breeding ground for female fetishes, especially the non-con fetish. I sure hope that sex doesn't work like this for you in real life. If your partner makes a move, and you say no, it should be respected. Everything else is abuse and rape. I am sorry, if I am sounding radical. But your argument is one used by many people to defend rape. 'if the victim enjoys it, it can't be rape.'
So, yes, I am sorry, but you are wrong. I wont let your comment teach younger people that being ignorant of your partner wishes is fine, as long as their orgasm at the end.

You're not radical, you're naive. No is not the end of the story. People who had have sex might've understood that the fact the alteration of consent could happen anytime during sex. You'll understand once you have a partner, Lil' girl.

So, for now have it your way.

I guess I didn't express myself right. I believe that there can be a change of consent during sex. I just think that you should never start to have sex when one partner says no to it. Even if consent is given later on, the fact that it wasn't there before means to me that everything up until consent is given, is against that consent and thus per definition rape.
This manga didn't even have the later moment, where the masochist gave consent. Yes he enjoyed it (probably), but that doesn't make it right that the seme discarded the no as meaningless. In another setting: like an established BDSM pair that has established safewords and does know that one partner is into rape play - this would have been totally fine. But here the seme just assumed and acted, I didn't see any form of consent from the receiving part and that's bothersome.

Dubious consent?!? Wonder who came up with that terminology?? I often read this term in stories, is this used in real life? Not sure i have seen thi on TV or read it in real lve cases. Let me see...ok here: "i have info on u so have sex with me or else". U say yes bcoz of the blackmail normally u would not have had sex with this person-dubious consent? Or maybe the person has a weapon "comply with my demands or i will hurt u worse then i normally would" or maybe a family member is held hostage, etc. Either way that term is to broad and should never have been invented it just gives rapist carte blanche to do what they want and get away with it "but ur Honor they said yes...",No means No! No ifs ands or buts about it! Safer to say?!? Even if "dubious consent" is mentioned it is still rape! Dubious comes from the word "doubt" so if there is doubt then it is rape.

"Brynn" i think is wrong...u r NOT naive. I agree with u whole heartedly! What kind of bullshit is that..."once you have a partner u will understand"? If one has a partner that means u r a pair. If one from that pair is not in the mood at the time then the other should back off period! It is called RESPECT for one another! Keep u r beliefs! I will support u coz i think the same! No means No!