Let me entertain you then, let's pretend that those characters even match. So what? Why are you saying that that is him protesting rather than a moan or just a grunt of pain? It's his first time so it would hurt. If he doesn't want the sex, why doesn't he KEEP saying "no" or anything else? Why does he only kick Kureshima off AFTER he's been fucked for a while? it shows Kureshima holding his leg up in ch 4, so he was laying there taking it for a bit. Why does the rest of what happened not matter to you? None of that dialogue i went over in my comment makes you think that maybe, if he did say no, it wasn't about the sex so much as that it hurt for a little before he loosened up and got used to it? I mean, why would he say no if he "yearned to be touched" and "reality was much better than delusion"?
So what? Then he said no. He enjoyed it? Yes he did, but he said no
I'll leave now
Just think about it
Hope it never happens to you. But in any case maybe you'll learn that no can sometimes be useful when you want to express your feelings
But he didn't say "no" to any questions asked. He said no as he was being penetrated, why do you think he was saying "no, i don't want this sex"? Since it happened while he was being penetrated, doesn't it seem more like he was just saying no BECAUSE of the penetration? Similar to yelling yes? When people yell yess during sex do you assume they're saying "yes, i want this sex" or just letting out a moan? People say no in the same way they say yes in this context.
Furthermore, he didn't say "no, stop", he just said "no". Assuming the letters even match. Why say just "no" if it was a protest? Just "no", in the context of someone saying it mid-sex while being penetrated comes across as more of a moan to me than a protest. If he'd said "no, stop" or "i don't want it" i'd have agreed with you hands down.
Yeah what you say makes sense
But there are so many things. The fact that the seme is in a position of superiority cause he knows his secret, even his expression, the sfx, the "bleeding part".
Cause you said that he couldn't accept the fact that he liked him. But if he doesn't accept it, then it's his choice. He doesn't accept his love so he doesn't accept the sex even if he enjoys it a lot and even if he's probably in love with him or at least sexually attracted
But still
He doesn't accept this-> he doesn't accept the sex->it is not consentual anymore-> it's rape
-sorry, had to sleep for a bit, just now seeing this- Sure, i can see what you mean, but the understanding between the two of them is that they both know that he DOES want to be touched, it's what they're talking about leading up to the sex, the dialogue i talked over in my comment above. Also, Kureshima wasn't told anything he was thinking, i had said this, but at most all he's heard from Oono during the sex is "no" one time when he penetrates Oono at first, which is suspiciously the 1st time he gets thrust into, when it WOULD hurt. As far as Kureshima being "in a position of power", isn't that just because Oono is in denial? Kureshima comes across as "in control" because he's essentially chastising Oono for acting like he doesn't already know whats going on. If you look at the scene again Kureshima never uses ANY physical force. He just pushed him back onto the bed, he never holds him down or anything, Oono just stays in the position Kureshima lays him down in. Sorry, i've gtg to work for a bit.
I'm back, if you want to continue talking, alright. If not, that's fine too, i just ask that you say so in a manner fitting a decent person.
This is just SAD. More than anything else, this is the reason why I despise rape being treated so light heartedly in Yaoi. Some people actually think what is happening here should be applied to reality, and than defend it on top of that.
Let me tell you something. If ANYONE says "No" during, before, or even after a sexual act than it IS non consensual, meaning that it is rape. I don't give a fuck about what that characters were 'thinking' about, 'hinting' at, or what the body language said.
Once someone says 'No' all actions should come to a stop. Otherwise it IS dubious consent at the least, and no consent at the worst.
You only see it one way , even i despise rape in yaoi manga . The fact that that people call shit like these rape is what i am more sad about .rape is not people fall in love with the rapist and act like it is no big deal .people shout rape rape for yaoi like these when they themselves know how horrible actually rape is. It is dubious consent .rape is not light lie this .yaoi rape i hate te word itself rape is not like this .rape is not somethong light.
This^
Also, you're being seriously naive if you don't think people say "no" during sex as a moan rather than a protest. It's not as black and white as you're making it out to be.
Cool
Keep going on this way
Rape is not something light isn't it ? Pull yourself together and stick to what you think is true
Get over it, hope you won't accidentally rape seomone because you thought they loved you...
Yes (๑•ㅂ•)و✧
Thank you! Its rape and all this justification is nonsense, if you are kool with being treated like that more power to you bro. But at the end of the day either you like the manga, the characters and the development or you don’t, there really is no reason to justify it because you are enjoying the read. I like my aggressive seme’s as much as the next guy but it’s not okay to treat people like that and say it’s all for the sake of getting them to accept their true feelings and then expect it to be all good. I’m not targeting this commenter specifically just happened to stop here after reading a few. I may drop it because I don’t like the dynamic and I’m not shipping them and I’ve seen my fair share of yaoi rape because its popular now, some stories I like some I don’t
╮(￣▽￣)╭
How far back in the comments are you reading?! This is like SO far back, i'm not even sure how you found it! I suggest re-reading, the dialogue suggests otherwise, i'm not willing to discuss this again.
Ugh no worries I’m not over here trying to have a conversation with you we clearly have different views I said what I said and that’s all that’s required. Peace out (〜￣△￣)〜
Yeah, you too, it's just as you can see i've already went in depth on this subject with multiple people, some of them rude, and it's been a while since anyone was on this comment as it's really far back. Nothing against you, i'm just not going to open up that old can of worms again. ╮(￣▽￣)╭
***THIS COMMENT ISN'T AT ANY ONE PARTICULAR PERSON, I"M JUST TRYING TO EXPLAIN SOMETHING I HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT YET, THIS IS SEPARATE FROM ANY OTHER TOPICS*** Both Oono and Kureshima know Oono is already in love with Kureshima before the sex in ch 3. They talk about it. Look at ch 3, pg 21, on it you see Oono having issues imaging his delusions, he says it's because Kureshima is there, but he's lying to himself (Kureshima says this in a second). Kureshima starts dirty talking and Oono starts to get horny (Kureshima starts dirty talking and he's immediately able to see his delusions? Coincidence?), he says "h-hold up! something is wrong here. -he starts shivering because he's horny- this is bad. I'm starting to feel the same as back then". After he gets horny he tries to look down, this is another hint about the denial Kureshima is about to call Oono on, he's trying to look away because Kureshima is getting him horny and he doesn't want to admit it. Kureshima tells him to "keep your head up! Don't look down!" and says "so now, who is licking you?". There is a brief moment here where Oono tries to lie to himself and say Sasaki, even though he had just acknowledged he can't imagine her before he realizes he's imagining Kureshima doing all the stuff Kureshima was saying and he instantly tries to say it's not true both to himself in his head and out loud to Kureshima. Kureshima then says "that's what you were imagining the other day at the park, didn't you?" and "even after that you weren't on your own, I helped you with your delusions". Kureshima is saying here that Oono is lying to himself, that Oono has been interested in him since the park scene where he helped Oono come by putting his foot on Oono's dick and that Oono was imagining him in that park scene as well as in the other delusions after. Oono knows it's true so he can't deny any of this and looks how he does in ch 3 because he wants to deny it, but he can't. THAT'S why he has tears and is blushing, he's being forced to realize he's been imagining another dude sexually. If you look back in ch 3, you can see a hint that Oono is already aware of Kureshima sexually when he goes to take off his clothes and then gets flustered and says he shouldn't in front of Kureshima. "bros" change clothes in front of each other all the time. This is when Kureshima says "reality is better than delusions" and enters Oono. He's saying reality is better than being fucked by him in his delusions. People misunderstand this scene. He's not raping Oono, he's forcing him to accept reality and quit the denial. This is why Kureshima gets pissed midway through ch 4 when Oono yells at him asking why he had sex with him, he thought he got through to Oono and that he'd be more honest from then on. That's why Kureshima comes in talking to Oono "normally" and "like nothing happened", he talks to Oono normally because he didn't do anything wrong, he knows their feelings are mutual and the purpose of the sex was to get Oono to admit it. Oono never said no to the sex either. He said no to masturbating, but that was before he agreed to do it. Look at the very small flashback at the beginning of chapter 4 where it shows Kureshima fucking Oono, he's smiling. Kureshima expected to go to school tomorrow and things to progress now that Oono is facing reality. Kureshima gets angry because he sees Oono is just going on pretending he doesn't know what happened when Oono asks why Kureshima fucked him. Kureshima says "you know why!". Because he does. Oono knows how he feels about Kureshima, but he's "pretending not to notice" like he says at the end of ch 4. He also knows that Kureshima was right about everything he said and that Kureshima had sex with him so that he'd have to acknowledge that he'd been imagining Kureshima all along and that he is in love already. And it worked, Oono DID get past his denial, albeit a little after the sex at the end of ch 4. At first, at the beginning of ch 4, he was still lying to himself. He says "My ass is bleeding and sore. He didn't stop no matter how much it hurt". This is only a half-truth. At the end of chapter 4 he says that he "intended to blame Kureshima", but that the truth is that he always "yearned to be touched again" and that "reality was much better than delusion". Oono is saying that the dialogue at the beginning of chapter 4 was him "blaming Kureshima" and that the sex was actually very pleasurable (much better than delusion) and that he actually wanted Kureshima to touch him deep down during the sex scene in ch 3. I already covered this, but i'll say it again since it's midway through ch 4. Oono is also lying to himself when he acts like he doesn't know why Kureshima had sex with him. There is a scene midway through ch 4 where Oono yells at Kureshima "why did you do it" and Kureshima says "you know why". After this scene is when Kureshima gets a girlfriend and Oono gets jealous and EVERYTHING clicks into place for him. End of denial.