Jesus fucking christ you need help.
Says the person who don't even remember what they said.
If you want the sex content to be graphic a.k.a sex scene that's targeted towards an adult audience, then you read Yaoi that has sex scene. Notice that I didn't say "Yaoi" but "Yaoi that has sex scene." That's because not all Yaoi have to contain sex in order for it to be a Yaoi.
Seriously, it's because of all these stupid pathetic excuse for porn Yaoi manga that people think the difference between Yaoi and Shounen Ai is sex. People these days are so ignorant, yet so arrogant. They don't know sh!t but they still refuse to admit that they're wrong even when they know they're wrong.
In Japanese, Yaoi is short for "Yama Nashi, Ochi Nashi, Imi Nashi," which essentially means "no climax, no resolution, no meaning" and originally referred to smutty dojinshi in Japan. Shonen ai (meaning boys' love) emerged in the '70s in the form of Moto Hagio works like The Heart of Thomas and other shojo manga about romanticized relationships between boys (many of which featured literary tropes, symbolism, and other artistic flourishes). BL, short for boys' love, was later used by Japanese publishers as a blanket category for manga about homosexual male relationships (regardless of the explicit or artistic nature of the content and the age of the males). Nonetheless, English-speaking audiences tend to have their own definitions for yaoi and shonen ai, and graphic content is typically the distinguishing factor, whether you care to acknowledge that or not. Still, labels at sites like this tend to be inconsistent or inaccurate, perhaps because fans are trying to create subcategories within a genre that is typically labeled BL or shojo in Japan. Since many English-speaking fans tend to use yaoi and BL interchangeably, it's probably less confusing and divisive to use the latter term.
Yes, I understand that in most cases, graphic content is the distinguishing factor between Shounen Ai and Yaoi. But that does not hold true to all cases. Meaning that if you were to make that claim for all BL manga, you would be wrong.
Like you say, Japanese do not use "Yaoi" to label homosexual manga. They use "BL" That's because Yaoi is but a subcategory within BL. English speaking anime fan who does not know much about BL tend to use Yaoi to categorize all homosexual manga. Even those who knows still tend to use Yaoi as the main categorization. Thus, I can understand why people, especially English speakers, would make that mistake.
But the point isn't to understand why they made that mistake. The point is to help them realize their mistake so that they know the truth. It would be hypocritical for people to be a fan of something if they don't know the facts about that something.
In other words, I've already acknowledge the reason why they make that mistake. I only ask that they themselves acknowledge that what they say is wrong.
I’m not sure anyone is wrong or right, though, since that would assume some universal, static definition for shonen ai and yaoi that everyone acknowledges. In this case, fans have co-opted the terms and changed the definitions over time, and those definitions can differ among fan communities. Before deciding what is or is not authentically yaoi or shonen ai, one must first decide what it means to be authentic and who defines that. It would not be wrong, for example, to define yaoi as a genre akin to slash with virtually no plot, since that is what the name implies. Similarly, it would not be wrong to define shonen ai far more narrowly as shojo manga by the Year 24 Group that focuses on the idealized love between boys (often at European boarding schools) where sexual themes may be explored but in a far different way than what you find in yaoi. Ironically, fans’ attempts to be authentic and culturally aware led them to redefine the subgenres on their own terms and then pointlessly quibble about who was more informed (though they were all deviating from the original definitions). Who knows what yaoi or shonen ai is according to fans’ interpretation?
In my mind, the authentic label would be the one given by the publisher, which is South Korean in this case. According to Lezhin, this is a BL webtoon. I don’t really see any value in giving it a dubious Japanese label. For clarity’s sake, these sites should just remove the Japanese labels like shojo or seinen and list the ages or sex of the intended audience instead (if applicable) along with the genre, especially since this site features comics and webtoons from multiple countries.
Because they usually started as Shonen Ai, then developed into Yaoi and someone just forgot to update the genre. Simple as that.
That is the most idiotic thing I've heard since "People die when they are killed."
Dawg, Yaoi has sex, Shonen Ai does not, the end. These are commonly accepted facts and parts of the simple definition of the genres. If you see something that says it's Shonen Ai but at some point involves sex, the author likely just decided to change the genre to Yaoi as the relationship progressed. You have written an entire novel about the definition of two words which you have misunderstood. It's okay, calm down, no one cares that much.
A tree fell down in the middle of the the forest. Just because there isn't anyone there to see the tree falls, doesn't mean that the tree didn't fall. What discerns right from wrong is whether it is actually true. If a definition can be apply to all cases, if it is the absolute truth, then it is right. If a definition doesn't apply to all cases, if it is a conditional definition, then it is wrong. The thing that distinguish facts from opinions is that facts will always remain true whether people disagree with it or not. Something that most people, especially Otaku, has forgotten.
Like I said before, I understand why English speaking fans would define Yaoi in such a stereotypical way. And I have no problem with that as long as they understood that what they're saying is an opinion and not a fact. Had they presented their definition in a form of an opinion and not parade it as a fact, I would have respected their opinion. But they didn't They choose to present their opinion in the form of a fact and refuse to acknowledge that what they're saying is an opinion and is not true.
Just like how all carps are fish but not all fish are carps, all Yaoi are BL but not all BL are Yaoi. Just because most Yaoi have sex in it, that doesn't mean that all Yaoi have sex in it. This is not an opinion. It is the facts. And it will remain true regardless of whether people disagree with it or not.
To you and your narrow little perspective, they may be commonly accept. But to the world outside, they are not. Use the word Yaoi in Japan and no one will understand what the hell you're saying. It is obvious that you have never venture outside of your little circle before so there's no helping that you're ignorant. But there is no excuse for your arrogance cause it comes from your pathetic self. Stop reading manga and try venturing out to the real world for once and your life and you may find that most of the things you think is right is actually wrong.
Or maybe you fail to grasp the concept of Occam's razor, that the simplest solution is often the correct one and therefore your ridiculous, droning ten book long explanation as to why two genres are the same but also not was actually just rooted in a misunderstanding or genre-listing mistake which often occur in these stories. The mangaka of Save Me literally said "I was initially going to make it a Yaoi, but I couldn't draw the sex scenes, so I changed it to Shonen Ai." Inversely, some writers do not think they will end up creating sex scenes but later decide to, changing the genre from Shonen Ai to Yaoi, or sometimes doing so while forgetting to change the fucking genre. God damn it, now can you stop bombarding this comment thread with books of bullshit? Whose mind do you think you are changing? Absolutely no one's is the answer regardless of your thoughts.
Benjamin Franklin once said that most people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. I don't want to be most people.
The reason why I am so adamant about the truth is because, unlike most people, I don't want to live a life built by lies of my own perception. I don't want to live in denial and spend my days not knowing anything outside of myself.
To cut yourself out from the truth and only believe in whatever you want to believe in is to stop changing. Change doesn't always mean growth but to grow, you must change. To stop growing is the equivalent of death.
You apparently has never been to any institution or college to pursue any sort of higher education. Nor are you an independent and not relying on someone else to feed your sorry ass. If Occam's razor can be apply to all situation, then I'll have my own harem by now. And you wouldn't be an idiot.
I don't know whether the mangaka from "Save Me" actually said what you claim her to say but I could care less. It doesn't change the fact that "Save Me" is none the less, a Shonen Ai. And more to it than that, you've yet to disprove any of the other manga that I've mention nor the thousands of Shounen Ai Dojin out there. You're only buzzing your mouth off without any concrete argument nor the leg work to back it up.
My suggestion to you is to get smarter. Stop speaking from your @ss and start speaking for the truth. That way, you'd be less ignorant and less arrogant.
The meaning of a word is debatable, so it's not a fact. Usually, debates about word meanings are resolved by consulting different dictionaries or encyclopedias, considering the etymology or history of a word, and agreeing on some consensus definition. I was trying to suggest that yaoi may not have a consensus definition, because it is an informal fan expression that has evolved over time. On the one hand, the original literal definition implies sexual content, so fans are completely justified in arguing yaoi must include sex. On the other hand, fans could be excused for defining the term more broadly, since yaoi has evolved to become synonymous with BL. Your definition seems to be some nuanced variation between the two extremes, but what is your source? In most cases, neither the publisher nor the author/artist is defining a webtoon as yaoi or shonen ai, particularly if the webtoon is South Korean. Therefore, the whole argument seems silly.
Perhaps I should have asked how sites like Mangago defined shonen ai or yaoi. Over at Baka-Updates, shonen ai is defined as a "less extreme" form of yaoi, which is pretty vague.
How is it not a fact when it applies to all situations? Just because you think one plus one is equal to three doesn't mean that one plus one is equal to three. Like I've said before, a fact is a fact whether people agree with it or not. That's because facts are indisputably the case.
Even if they were to change the definition of Yaoi to the equivalent of pornography in the future, there would still be Yaoi from the past that are not pornography. What you're thinking about is something like the definition of marriage. Before, it was a partnership of a man and a women. Now, it is a partnership of two individuals without the gender or sex being specify. The reason why the definition before was flawed is because it didn't apply to all cases. Not to say that the definition that we have now is not flawed either since marriage is not a concept limited to just people. Other animals practices partnership as well.
And just because you understand why someone do something, it doesn't justify or make what they did automatically right. Take for example a person who lash out at random people because of his or her troubled past. You may understand why he or she did it but that doesn't make her right for doing it.
So far, you and the people before you have been talking about what you think and what other people think of Yaoi and not what Yaoi really is. All you people are doing is talking about your opinion of Yaoi. That is why you have yet to even counter or even refute the things I've said. This is why I don't like talking to Otaku. They only care about their opinion and refuse to look at the facts. Even when someone else plainly put it right in front of them.
If you want to know what my opinion of Yaoi is then I will tell you. I think that they are trash and pathetic excuse of a story for the sake of fan girls and guys to fulfill the lust that they aren't capable of fulfilling in reality. The reason why I don't use that definition is because I know full well that that is an opinion and doesn't apply to all Yaoi. That's the difference between a person who knows the facts from the opinion.
You go ahead and do that since you care more about opinion than facts.
It's interesting that you're still arguing about this when like 3 other people have also agreed that the difference between what classifies something as yaoi and shounen ai is sex. The reason so many of us have stopped responding to you is that you're too ignorant to listen to anything except the voice in your head.
Yaoi has graphic explicit detailed sex. Shounen ai has barely drawn-in sex scenes that last not even a portion of the panel. That is the difference. Shounen ai is NOT sex free. It's not likely to show a lot of sex, but definitely doesn't mean impossible for there to be simple sex.
wheres the steamy sex scenes tho....