Wow thanks for the thoughtful response. I agree with you. I'm kinda curious because like you, I abhor pedophilia but seeing as how you studied it, why do people do it on a psychological level? If it's too complicated for a reply, don't worry about it.
It's really no problem for me to explain, if you don't mind reading it. There are several different types of pedophiles and with each type there is a different reason for their predilection. There is the "fetish" pedophile who is simply aroused by the sight or idea of a prepubescent body. This usually is triggered by an experience early in life, before or around puberty, where the pedophile became aroused at the sight or idea of a peer and it stuck. This is now what gets them aroused. They can't help the arousal (but they can prevent acting on it). There is the "hero/teacher" pedophile who is sexually excited by being relied upon, needed or admired by prepubescent children. Again, a past experience will have triggered this event. Usually it will be something that occurs in their late teens or twenties wherein they had a younger sibling or friend who deeply admired them or looked up to them. The euphoria this sense of superiority created was not just emotionally stimulating, but sexually stimulating as well. Then there is the "power/dominance" pedophile. They are aroused by asserting authority over a prepubescent child and bending them to their will. This type, unlike the others, stems not from a positive or innocent experience in their youth, but feelings of frustration and inadequacy among their peers. Most pedophiles of this type have experienced some form of physical or sexual abuse as a child themselves. They lack the social skills to communicate their desires, both emotionally and sexually, to a partner that is a peer. They prefer children because they are easy to manipulate and control, where another adult will make up their own mind. There is one final type of pedophile that is exceptionally rare and that is the "retarded" pedophile. I am not using the term retarded in It's common derogatory sense here. To retard means to withhold or hold back. This type of pedophile sees themselves as the same age as the child. Their social, emotional and intellectual growth has been *held back* for whatever reason - mental disability, physical disability or injury, having been isolated from others, etc. Regardless of their own age, they can not see themselves as an adult. Therefore, the sexual exploration that naturally happens among peers becomes pedophilia once the person afflicted becomes an adult chronologically. Sadly, they are frozen in time as a child, but their body matures. This is probably the only type I could feel sympathy for. They truly don't know any better.
Understand that none of this absolves the pedophile from the crime of molestation or sexual abuse. These are simply typical types and circumstances where pedophilia develops. I hope this has shed some light and understanding for you. Pedophilia remains a crime in most countries and to most, including myself, it is aberrant and abhorrent behaviour to act on these feelings of arousal for a child. However, pedophiles are not some evil boogey man. They are created by experiences and how those experiences react in the person's physical brains and psyche.
Wow this is fascinating. I think because the subject matter is sensitive, people don't really discuss it but it's important to know. You explained it so clearly. I just had one question about the "retarded" pedophile. Are they retarded in the sexual sense only or are they retarded in all aspects of life? For instance, if you met them in real life, would they be noticeably retarded or you'd only know from their sexual preference and sexual behaviors?
Well, it depends on the particular case. It may be a person who is mentally disabled. For instance, a person born with Downs Syndrome who has been alienated from others by their parents and severely sheltered out of shame from the disability. It could also refer to a person who was born with or obtained a physical deformity early in life who was, again, severely sheltered and alienated by their parents. They could also be completely healthy physically and mentally, but due to the circumstances of their environment, like living in seclusion, living in remote areas, etc., they have never interacted with their own peers. Do you see the pattern? We take clues from those surrounding us about how to behave appropriately for our age range. If we are denied social interaction with those who are our peers, we lose any idea of how to behave. Some of the most interesting, IMO, cases of this phenomenon are feral children. Children who have basically been forced to live and survive on their own from a very young age. They are nearly impossible to imagine, let alone find, in industrialized, first world nations, but they can still be seen in remote areas of third world nations. If a feral child somehow manages to survive into adulthood, due to their isolation from their peers, they have no comprehension of their own age. They may be fit, healthy and relatively clever, but they lack any necessary social skills or awareness of propriety. Those are all things taught by example over time as we grow in a social group. Having no contact with others, they form their own rules of living. Often those rules seem animal-like to those of us who were blessed to grow up in a social environment. Things like being selfish, greedy, gluttonous, lazy, jealous, and even lustful are key to individual survival, but those qualities are detrimental to social groups. So, those who are without the benefit of a social group or society often display these qualities. They will simply take what their body needs to survive when their body needs it. This is not done with malice or cruelty, but out of an instinct to survive. Sex and procreation are also part of our survival instinct. Civilization and living in social groups as a matter of course over so many millennia has molded us to see sex and procreation as unnecessary for personal survival, but it is still a part of our instinct to survive as a species. But that is an entirely different lecture. LOL
After rereading my reply for the umpteenth time (lol), I realized I went off on a tangent regarding social isolation, but there are other causes for the "retarded" pedophile to see themselves as children. A mental disability or emotional disability that triggers them to revert to childhood or never grow mentally or emotionally past a certain age can also be a cause aside from social isolation. Traumatic brain injury is another cause. I have a close friend who was involved in a head on collision with a drunk driver at the age of 18. They suffered a severe TBI and were in a coma for weeks. This person, although they are now in their 40's, still acts like they are 18. Their impulse control is low, their fear/hesitation response is low, even the things they enjoy doing for fun are the same as when they were 18. The TBI and resulting coma stopped their emotional and mental growth at 18. Though, admittedly, since he is not socially isolated, his choices for a partner are not limited to 18 year olds. They are currently dating a person in their 30's.
We, as humans, are quite varied. We are individuals with our own individual experiences. For this reason, there are an exponentially large number of causes and reasons for a person to become a pedophile. Trying to list each individually would be quite the undertaking. Those that I have listed are, by no means, a complete list. Rather, they are simply the most common.
Lol I didn't mind the tangent at all. Growing up feral is actually another interesting situation to consider, especially since manga and other forms of storytelling use it occasionally. Based on what you said about retarded pedophiles, it seems like a lot of it is affected by their parents or lack of parents. Is it because parents tend to teach social cues and direct children to behave appropriately? And I'm curious if non retarded pedophiles are just as influenced by their parents as well. Although I imagine everything is related to how we are raised by our parents to some degree.
Sorry for bugging you with all these questions, if it's getting too lengthy, you don't have to answer. I do enjoy your perspective and I think you communicate very clearly! It's very easy to understand your points.
First, let me say clearly, you are not "bugging me" in the least. I have enjoyed this conversation with you because you have a sharp and open mind and even though the topic is repulsive to some, you have not shied away from asking interesting and pertinent questions. Thank you. Thank you, also, for the lovely compliment. Communication is one of the few things I am good at. LOL
Your questions and theories are precisely correct. All children are molded by the adults who raise them, in more ways than just what they are taught directly. If your parents are kind and affectionate with each other, this is how you will envision all adult relationships to be. Conversely, if your parents fight and argue constantly or are abusive with each other, as a child, you will see this as the "normal" course of adult relationships. Only after coming into contact with other adults, parents of friends, relatives, teachers, etc, will you recognize that your family dynamic is different. We learn far more by example as children than most parents realize until it is too late. If you have ever heard a parent say, "You act just like your mother/father!", in a frustrated tone to their child, this is what I mean. A hero/teacher pedophile may have been influenced to crave admiration if their parents were either overly attentive and encouraging or if their parents never encouraged them at all. If the child was overly praised they may crave that attention if it is suddenly withdrawn or lessens over time. If the child receives no praise or encouragement, of course they will seek it where they can find it once they have had a taste of it. In the case of a power/ domination pedophile, it is common for them to have been physically, emotionally or sexually abused as children. Usually this abuse is perpetrated by a parent, guardian or other close adult the child trusts and obeys. Even in the case of the fetish pedophile, if the parents, or other responsible adults around the person, do not explain explicitly that prepubescent children should not be seen or touched in a sexual way, even by another prepubescent child, the fetish pedophile will not see their arousal as something unacceptable. Since all children naturally become curious about their bodies, and the bodies of others, some parents dismiss "playing doctor" or peeping as just normal childhood curiosity. The parents fail to explain the the child the impropriety of looking at, or being aroused by, a prepubescent body by adults. Since our first fetishes are formed in puberty and tend to stick with us into adulthood, it is important for parents to draw a clear line between what is socially acceptable and what is not at that time, during puberty. This is why I think it is such a shame that the subject of sex is taboo. Parents should be open and honest when talking to their children about sex. The children need a steady, reliable voice to guide them through such a turbulent subject. There are so many things that can be miscommunicated or go wrong if all they can rely on are peers and pornography. Which is also why I think yaoi readers under 18 should have a trusted older mentor to read with them and discuss the topics and themes. But, again, I'm off on another tangent. LOL
Yes, I really agree with all that you've said. Some of readers on this site, though, may not be mature enough to understand this. Fiction is fiction. Reading topics/themes do not mean you condone it. Some elements are added to the story by the author for the story's sake. That's why some manga can really hit you in the feels, some make you laugh until your stomach hurt - because the mangaka has added elements to move the reader.
If one does not like it - why are you reading it? Why finish a story you don't like? Personally, when I come across a story I dislike, I drop it.
Wow, it almost makes me feel sorry for the power/domination pedophiles. Of course by the time they are adults, they should have enough self control and knowledge to know right from wrong. But I remember an episode of Law & Order SVU where a victim of pedophilia later became a pedophile himself by the end of the episode. It was so shocking to me that I still remember it to this day despite it being a long time ago. I guess the writers on the show did their research lol.
I agree with you that parents should be able to communicate and teach their children about sex. My parents didn't and I know I would've felt icky about it if they did. Lucky for me though my parents did provide me a loving environment and taught me right from wrong in general. I think I got most of my sex education through the internet. Well, there were also those horrible mandatory health classes in school...
Thank you so much for educating me on this. I really find it fascinating and even though pedophilia is really a horrible thing, if everyone had this knowledge, I feel like we could prevent it from happening more often. I don't know if you've read any of Harada's works but she's someone who portrays disfunctional relationships truthfully without sugar-coating or romanticizing the story. Making the reader uncomfortable but at the same time still wanting to read the story is a talent... She's written a few stories on pedophiles. I hated the student teacher ones but there was one about a pedophile who had been a victim himself. My chat with you reminded me of that story.
I think your parents did a wonderful job of raising you whether they discussed the topic of sex or not. You're intelligent, articulate, understanding and sympathetic to the plight of others. I'm sure your parents are very proud of you. I know I would be if you were my child.
I am quite familiar with Harada-sensei's works. I love them. The gut wrenching realism and her themes of redemption really get me. I'm a big softie for those who have tried to change and redeem themselves to make things right. I believe in second chances, I guess. As I said before, I am a rape survivor and although it took me almost 30 years to do it, I was able to forgive the person who raped me face to face. He wasn't an evil person or a monster, just a young kid who screwed up big time and changed both our lives forever. He served his sentence and made great efforts through counseling for many years. He had earned my forgiveness and I deserved to move on. So, I asked his therapist to let us meet. I don't think I have ever seen anyone cry as much as he did that day. First, in shame and apology and then after I forgave him, in relief and gratitude. I cried quite a bit too. See, I'm such a softie. LOL
Damn, I really wish there were more commenters like you, especially over the extremely delicate topic of rape in BL, and the complex topic of looking beyond a simple gay love story
Brilliant comment
Wow that's an incredible story of healing! It almost sounds straight out of a movie the way it came full circle. Thank you for sharing that with me and I'm glad you were able to get some proper closure. I wish you the best and look forward to your future commentaries on yaoi mangas (๑•ㅂ•)و✧
All I can say is thank you for saying out your opinion. Really helps putting some common sense to other people.
While reading all the comment all i see was the fact that he was rape and nothing more.the did not even take into account that the characters work out the problem at the end.i really admired people who think outside the box and not just focus on one thing.
Thank you as well.
I'm the same. I dislike shoujo for a myriad of reasons. Therefore, I don't read it. I'll slog through a crappy story in yaoi because I genuinely enjoy the genre. However, if I make a comment, I try to be objective and discuss the writing or plot holes. I have, on occasion, even vented about characters I hated, but I never let a despised character taint my opinion of a story. In fact, if I am moved to absolutely hate a character, that means the writer did an excellent job of fleshing that character out and making them despicable. That is good writing! The worst thing a story can make me feel is apathy. If I won't remember reading it 10 minutes after finishing it, that is bad writing.
Thank you. Having studied psychology and sexual psychology for almost 30 years, I understand why "rape" is such a common trope in manga. Well, in most cases it isn't rape at all, rather it is ravishment that is depicted, but the average teen reader can make the distinction between the two. And trying to explain just gets me labeled as a rape apologist. LOL I've read A LOT of yaoi - 3000 and counting - and if you're going to read this genre, you need to either understand why the tropes used are there or you have to overlook them because rape/ravishment are as common as cat shit in a litter box. Especially in manga witten and published before 2010. It is becoming less popular, but it will always be there in older manga. That said, I think yaoi is a genre worthy of reading. There are plenty of talented mangaka who write gripping tales with fascinating themes and compelling morals to the story. It would be a waste of such talent to overlook a story just because it has a scene of rape or ravishment in it. Thanks again and I hope we have more chances to chat over the manga we have read.
Me too. I like to see fresh ideas and new approaches to old problems. If my comment made one person stop and rethink their opinion, then I have done my job. LOL Most of us live our lives focused only on ourselves and the world we create around us. This makes it hard to think outside the box. Stepping into someone else's shoes by considering their opinion is one way to do just that. Thanks for your comment and I hope we can chat again.
Your welcome (≧∀≦)
The translator's notes. It was refreshing to see a mature, level-headed response to a topic like rape in yaoi. There are dozens of reasons this trope is so popular among readers and mangaka of this genre and whether you like the trope or not, it is always wise to at least understand why the trope is used even if you can't accept it. Understanding something is not the same as accepting it. You simply grasp the concept of how or why. Accepting means you find yourself agreeable to the concept. I abhor pedophilia, but because I have studied sexual psychology, I understand it. I may understand it, but I would never condone it. I also understand why rapists, rape and again, in real life, I would never condone that behaviour. Especially since I, myself, am a rape survivor. But we're not talking about real life here, we are discussing a manga. A fictional setting with fictional characters, engaging in fictional deeds and relationships. No ukes were harmed in the making of this manga. There is so much more to this manga that can be discussed, like the theme of trust - losing it, building it and regaining it - and how that effects the feelings shared in a relationship. That, however, seems out of reach, as if it were too complex a subject to be comprehended. Where rape can easily be discussed by regurgitating what we see and hear through media and social media. I often wonder if readers are forming their own opinions or if they are simply parroting the "cause of the week" on Fuckface... I mean Facebook. Whoops. Let's just say I don't have the best opinion of that particular site. Try reading with an open mind. Leave all your past baggage at the first credit page. Then try to find the "moral" or theme of the story, like in a fable. What is the mangaka trying to teach or say to their readers? What is the lesson a reader should take away from the story? You might be surprised to realize just how varied these themes can be, even among strikingly similar manga. Everyone says that yaoi stories are all the same, but I disagree. When you look beyond the superficial tropes, the deeper themes are astonishingly different and varied. Try it sometime. You might find a whole new reason to love this genre.