I hate Karem cause he change his mind out of no where, too fast and only at his peace.
it pisses me off cause Relationship not suppose to lean only on one character to decide everything at any given moment, it suppose to be both of them to decide.
with Karem that have change of heart out of no where, and have full control of the MC and decide to love him again out of no where - feel annoying and stupid.
and by the way, that have nothing to do with how I feel to Junseo.
Karam is a bad writing character that is flat like a bread. of course people will hate a character like that.
Like I said, feelings change. Also I don't know about the 'out of nowhere' part, I've noticed hints since after the rejection, or it might just be me idk. And of course, his character would seem flat, his motivation isn't expanded upon since he hasn't been in focus. But I do agree with you that a healthy relationship shouldn't lean on a single partner alone, for that I hope Karam works to 'earn' the MC's affection, even though it seems that he already has it. There is an imbalance right now since mc has been in love since forever but Karam just started to fall. His last lines in the last published translated chapter gives me hope.
Also I might've interpreted this wrong but Karam didn't just 'decide to love him back again'. He rejected him before because he didn't feel the same way, fell for him gradually, and it took him time to realise he liked the mc and after Yoonsung's interference, he confessed. He didn't love him romantically before and didn't lie at the time,and he doesn't seem to be lying at present either when he says he likes him. Does he seem a little flaky, kinda wishy-washy? Yea, but hey feelings change, and some things just act as catalysts to make people fall in love faster. He is lucky though, mc still has feelings for him or he wouldn't have stood a chance then. I'm also glad he confessed soon rather than dragging it out and wallowing by himself. I personally don't have a very distinct preference when it comes to who I want the mc to end up with but Karam would be a good choice as long as he treats the mc right. I find this story kinda realistic(not completely of course), sometimes love takes time to be requited and other times it stays unrequited for long or forever.
but that the thing, Karem will never "work" to earn any affection, he get the affection from the MC easily without any problem - that how this story is! he never love him romantically before or now in the last chapter. and yeas he do have a sudden change of heart, out of no where cause he "felt" like it.
and no, he is not "seem" like a falt character, he IS a flat character. by definition. read what a flat character is.
it never took him time, cause he burly show up in this story or show any care for the MC.
Karem just act on what he feel like in the moment, and it pisses me off cause he dosn't feel like he really "Care" about the MC at all. that's why I will never support him has a partner or has a good character. ever.
he is a bad writing character that suppose to be a minor one, that how it is for me. and it seem to other's too.
Karem is the worst choice in this kind of story, from the very structure of the plot, from very clear reasons.
Well let's just agree to disagree, though I do want to know what you mean by a flat character, not what is thought to be a flat character in general. Do I think Karam hasn't been expressive about his feelings towards the MC? Yes. But I wouldn't dismiss him completely saying he doesn't care about the MC. Even before he was shown to be romantically interested in the MC, he treated him as a friend and clearly cared about him.
I do agree that Karam is not a well fleshed out character as Junseo or the MC and I get why you feel the way you do. But saying someone is the worst character is going to be something subjective, just like how you said you have several people agreeing with you, I've seen several comments saying similar things to mine. Like I said, I liked this story because it seems realistic, feelings change and sometimes people do just act out how they feel like. I'm not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing, just that it happens. Let's say Karam is objectively a flat character, seemingly 'interesting' people fall for seemingly 'boring' people irl too. But I am kinda disappointed since you said that Karam wouldn't be shown making an effort to win MC's affection, I wonder if the author had a deadline or something.
I mean this: https://www.novel-writing-help.com/minor-characters.html if you don't know what a flat character, you welcome to read this.
subjective has you say it is, many felt this way. though I only talk on how I felt and not other's, I seen many that felt the same has what I said.
this story don't feel realistic at all, the opposite, it feel unrealisitc and very stereotypical that can offend people.
if feelings change, then the MC feelings should have change with time, but they never did. which again is not really realitic.
I"m 100% they just wanted to finish with this story has fast has possible.
from the ling I send I meant this line: "Minors are essentially two-dimensional stereotypes, or flat characters, so there’s no need to spend much time fleshing them out on paper before you begin to write."
The link you gave me said essentially the same as what I said, that he isn't a well fleshed out character and that doesn't have much screen time-that doesn't make him a necessarily bad character, just not a major character that's all. And it is subjective, I read the earliest five pages of comments right now and have read almost all new comments once a chapter is released(man do I need to sort out my priorities lol) and while some do agree that Karam isn't the best choice for MC, some didn't care about who the MC ended up with and liked all of them(like me) and some actually preferred Karam over the others. Again regarding whether it felt realistic or not, it's my opinion that the story is realistic, I didn't mean everyone has to think the way I do, hell during my 'research' I found others who thought it was realistic too, so again subjective. I might add that the fact that one character's feelings changed but the other ones didn't added even more realism to it. If only feelings were rational! Only our actions in response to the feelings can be. I guess the author was in a rush to end the story but MC ending up with the guy he's liked since chapter one is not a good enough reason that apparently 'ruined' the story, at least for me. Sometimes a love interest doesn't really have to be the focus of the story.
Also I'm kinda confused, what part of the story was offensive? I'm genuinely curious. I get that it got clichéd or stereotypical at times but I can look past it, but I didn't find anything offensive so that boggles my mind.
your arguament only go IF it was deliberate. if the creator wanted to make Karem a real minor character that isn't suppose to be importent to the plot, then yeas it wasn't a bad character.
but in this plot, it is a bad writing character cause they wanted to make him the main character in the end. what again is not going well with the plot!
I don't care what other's think or what you think, but FACTS is still facts. Karem is two-dimensional flat character what is a bad writing character for this plot, end of story.
no it didn't, it didn't add any realism cause if defy the real world logic, it only take away the realism and make the reader's feel it just a stupid story. I seen better plot's doing "realism" while been not real at all, so no not really.
again if you want us to care about a character, no matter what kind of character, we need a reason for it! and no the fact that the MC like him is not a REASON!! in that case the creator did fail cause there were many that didn't care AT ALL about Karem, what again I think wasn't suppose to happen. YOU SUPPOSE TO CARE about the character's in the story, no matter how much minor they are. at least that what I think, and by the way I seen better stories manage to make you CARE about all the character's. it is possible to do.
like any yaoi out there, stereotypes can be offensive. like saying "all black people are bad", that's why it better to avoid stereotypes. if you want to know more, look up search about stereotypes damage. but since this is a shonan ai or yaoi, people see it has fine. but this is for another day or another yaoi in ganral. still this story decided to use a stereotype character has a main character, which isn't that good for the story. so this is another reason for me not to like this story.
I kinda agree with you on the part that Karam should've been more fleshed out, it does feel weird that the MC ends up with someone we have no back story of, that we don't sympathise with much and can't see his motivation. I do think it's possible to have a well written character and I do think he could've been written in a better way but I fail to see what you mean by 'stereotypical'. I do know about stereotypes and how they can be damaging. Nothing in this story comes close to the stereotypical and illogical 'black people are bad' statement, that's a very unequal and dishonest analogy, or maybe I'm just not seeing what you're seeing. Do I think BL stories are strife with stereotypes, yes absolutely, but what kind of harmful stereotype did you find exactly that made you feel that it's offensive, I'm not being confrontational, I'm genuinely curious. BL stories aren't the only ones with clichés and stereotypes, it happens with almost every form of media, I'm not saying it's right but I don't see what's so particularly offensive about this story. I understand your dislike of the story and your reasons are valid of course. Also, I see realism in this story, doesn't mean everyone else has to and doesn't mean I find every part of it realistic too. There are times when it's very in tune with real life logic and sometimes it defies them. There are those moments which feel unreal but some which feel very familiar too. I'm not saying you have to agree with me, just know that people think differently, there are no 'facts'.
I don't want him to end up with the protagonist but he sure is a catalyst for change, I'm glad Karam returns my bby's feelings <3 even if my heart feels so heavy for Junseo </3
Also at everyone dissing Karam because he ends up with mc and not Junseo. I kinda get it because I like him a lot(a little more than Karam at that too) and it was probably because we got a back story on him so we're more sympathetic towards him and want him to be happy, I get it. But why badmouth Karam, what did he do? He rejected mc because he didn't feel the same towards him at the time and made himself clear after realising he does have feelings for him. Feelings change. That was a good move, he didn't dawdle for too long either. Sometimes people need time to process things. Yeah readers tend to empathise with the characters and project their own feelings onto them thinking about what they'd do if they were in that situation, I'd probably be wary of someone who rejected me too, but the mc doesn't feel that way.
Idk but rather than seeing this as a purely romance story, I kinda see it more as young people coming into terms with their feelings and growing up kinda story. The mc and Junseo are the protagonists, both young and gay, stumbling through the obstacles in their lives revolving around the fact that they're gay. That's why the focus is on these two rather than mc and Karam. They're like comrades, going through similar stuff and understanding what it's like. Even the title of the manhwa is unripened expression, kinda hinting at how they still have a long way to go before becoming mature. In the course of growing up, they fell for other people, Junseo fell for the mc but mc fell for someone else. I kinda empathise with Junseo more because I've been in his place before but it's important to understand that he's not entitled to MC's affections. Yeah I rooted for him too, because hey even if I couldn't get my happy ending, someone else in my shoes could, even if it's fiction. The manhwa is beautifully written and I'm happy to see all the characters. I get it that when the focus is on two particular characters that too in a romance BL manhwa, it's kinda expected for them to end up with each other, but maybe we just looked at it a different way, who knows, I'm not the author so I don't know their motivation. All of this is speculation of course.
I'm sorry this became an essay lol, I should be working on my exam that's on day after tomorrow but here I am, jumping at the notification for this manhwa. I like this manhwa a lot, and all the characters here, and I do hope the author writes a story for Junseo too, he deserves all the happiness in the world and would also kinda heal my heart. I apologise if I couldn't articulate my thoughts properly, English isn't my first language (=・ω・=)