*Don’t read this if you don’t want to hear discourse*

girl preachhhh

There are plenty of movies, tv shows and books that depict violence and glamorize mental health and violence. I think the matter comes not with the content, but with the immature minds that delve into it.

Education is the key ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~

this!!!

Media tends to perpetuate social norms and toxic ideologies. While young people are more susceptible to this it's a dangerous myth to think it doesn't apply to mature and educated minds. We're all subtly influenced by media no matter how young or old,worldly or ignorant. It's about socialization and conditioning too not just maturity.

Media shouldn't just stay the same and trust that everyone will be aware, it has to evolve with the times. As an activist my job is studying social politics (obsessively lol) but that doesn't mean I'm suddenly closed off to influence. Okay cool I can tell when a yaoi rape scene is romanticized that's good but that doesn't change the fact that the scene still shouldn't romanticize rape.

Repetition of a trope will affect your mind on a subconscious level regardless. If yaoi continues the rape to love trope ppl will continue to associate rape with love when they read these stories. It's only when we discard those tropes that we can actually start de-conditioning toxic ideas.

I urge you to check out the youtubers Pop Culture Detective and Renegade Cut. Especially PCD, they talk about the nuances of how media is influenced by preexisting world views and how media in turn perpetuates those world views in the minds of their audience.

This one specifically talks about harmful tropes in romance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWoP8VpbpYI

It's about het romance but lets be forreal yaoi is heteronormative and uses the same tropes and dynamics lol

Yes. When I typed "immature minds', I meant that for everyone, not just teenagers. I'm just taken aback at the idea that some people believe that media always has a negative impact on others. And as a writer, I'm not sure I want a group of people trying to take away someones creative outlet because they believe it hurts society. Violence isn't something the people of today created. Humans have been violent since we began plotting land for crops thousands of years ago. I don't think shielding the eyes of innocents by taking away a piece of violent fiction will help that.

Like I said, education is the key.

"If yaoi continues the rape to love trope, people will continue to associate rape with love when they read these stories" < This is your opinion. It is not a fact. Simply put, you can't speak for every reader. Do I think some of the readers on this site are too young? Maybe so. BUT, if you really want to help people, help them understand what rape truly is in the real world, not in a fictional one, not in something purposefully smutty created for people who understand and enjoy it. Your job as an activist shouldn't be pointing the finger at fictional characters, it's to educate people in the real world who don't understand.

Take away the harmful trope. Sure. Everything will be peachy after that and no one will ever romanticize rape ever again. It's like when sex ed is taken out of schools because adults are afraid that teens will see it as a green light to go ahead and have sex. They're still going to have sex...they'll just know absolutely nothing about their bodies, birth control or STDs ┑(￣Д ￣)┍

Dude seriously. Watch those videos I think my point went right over your head. Perhaps I didn’t explain myself well enough.

You make certain vague/sweeping statements that come across as... confusing.

"Media tends to perpetuate social norms and toxic ideologies. While young people are more susceptible to this it's a dangerous myth to think it doesn't apply to mature and educated minds. We're all subtly influenced by media no matter how young or old, worldly or ignorant. It's about socialization and conditioning too not just maturity."

One of the goals of education is to expose people to other perspectives, and enhance critical thinking. With education, people possess the required braincells and foundation to make judgements; which in this case, allows them to understand that rape IS bad; why it is bad, what constitutes rape etc.

Therefore, they are now equipped with the necessary skills and knowledge to differentiate and analyse negative aspects of certain media, or in this case; 'media' that romanticises rape. That's why, with education, people gain the ability to become self-aware, and see the 'socialised norms' and 'conditioning' in their surrounding environment - and take steps to counter it.

I use 'media' because this is a piece of creative work, and I want to differentiate from media as social media/journalism media, etc. I don't deny that 'media' has an impact on people who are less self-aware. But as Lucy In The Sky says, education is the key.

Creative works can always be used to educate, and there's always something people can learn from it.

Honestly I think both of your arguments are valid but the reality of the situation is somewhere in the middle.

Don't want to get involved tho I just got notifications for this thread and thought I should say this, so I won't say anything further, it's a nice conversation tho :D

"take the steps to counter it" Lucy literally said that they don't think art should be compromised or changed when the audience should just be educated about it. Which led me to think they assumed media doesn't need to change to help solve the problem. That we can still have really problematic things like rape culture in media and expect no one to internalize it if they're educated. My argument is you can still be influenced even with education and that the problem shouldn't be there in the first place to influence young minds.

Deconditioning will never happen if the toxic tropes are in media. Your comment makes sense and I'm not disagreeing. I think you need to read Lucy's statement again because you look kind of stupid right now defending them blindly.

I admit I wish I was more clearly about my point. I never said it was one or the other, I simply said just educating and not changing the status quo isn't enough. I know educating leads to change, my problem w/ Lucy is them saying we shouldn't have to change the art it should be able to exist as long as we know what we're absorbing. That's an unrealistic way of looking at things. I anything they were the one really arguing that its one or the other.

I'm kind of annoyed right now because I knew I could've been clearer but that's why I put the videos there to help clarify my damn point and them niggas clearly didn't even bother to watch it. Ugh, sorry I'm on my period.

When I mentioned "take the steps to counter it"; I was referring to the individual person taking the steps to decondition himself.

The 'problem' with rape culture as you term it is that the men or the women that perpetuate these toxic mindset grow up with the notion that "women" are inferior - they have internalised misogyny.

An analogy if it helps:

What you're saying is similar to how people condemn violent video games for making children violent. If I understand where you're coming from, you believe that violent video games should be entirely removed from the market.

What Lucy is saying that taking away violent video games doesn't make people less violent; saying that (taking away violent video games) is a solution not only doesn't correct the issue, but also creators who make media (art/books/games/etc) are suddenly vilified and have their creative outlets taken away.

I agree that 'rape to love' trope you bring up in your discussion is a terrible thing. It is unrealistic and gives young, impressionable girls the wrong idea. I also agree that toning down on such negative influences - the 'rape to love' trope - is a step in the right direction. However, entirely censoring rape, and pretending that it does not exist in society is also irresponsible. Notice how I differentiate from 'rape to love' and 'rape'?

On a similar note, 13 Reasons Why came under fire for not being responsible about the way it handled the sensitive topic - suicide didn't it?

Here is an article: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/29/18644448/netflix-13-reasons-why-teen-suicide-rates-rise (Which I will summarise the main important points) :

1. Scientists found a 13.3% increase in teenager suicide deaths after the release of the show.

2. However, the study 'does not provide definitive proof' that the show is the direct causation of the rise in suicide rates.

3. Experts worry that at-risk groups (people who might identify with the story) now exposed to such depictions of suicide/suicidal behaviour can be a trigger for possible future instances.

4. Most of the experts quoted in the paper view 13 Reasons Why as a wasted opportunity to educate/spark a conversation about mental health and suicide prevention - instead, the focus became "responsibilities of the entertainment industry in the SAFE portrayal of suicide".

5. Netflix commissioned a study that found out that their audience, after watching, became more aware of the surrounding risk factors, and took steps to educate themselves on suicide prevention, on reaching out for help, etc. A separate, unrelated study revealed that that the show did not increase in thoughts of suicide.

6. In summary, sensitive topics such as suicide, have to be handled responsibly.

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So if 13 Reasons Why did not exist would teenage suicide be eradicated from society, or in any case, lead to a drop? I very much doubt so.

In conclusion, both the creators/audience have parts to play about the 'media' they consume (read/watch/listen) - but 'media' with sensitive topics can be a platform to educate and raise awareness. The issue is how it is done.

Now if I could only write my dissertation like this. LMAO.