Poor baby Nakyum... Not only he's manipulated to have sex by the Lord Hoe, but is also pimped out by his adored teacher to Seunghoe in order to fulfil his goals...
Let's not forget either that if ever Nak run away, the servants would be punished (or even killed) by the mean Lord. He's trapped in so many ways...
This is what you get for being too good... Like we say in French, "Too good, too dumb".
We disagreed sometimes, but here I'm with you: Nakyum could've totally decided to run away for good and say f*ck to everyone, but he chose to stay knowing what awaits him.
So yeah, it's rape, and it's not really rape... ¯_(ツ)_/¯
You know, it is strange that during the conversation they had during the first time they had sex it seemed Nakyum's words were unslurred and normal sounding--even though his vision was way off. I wonder if the author did that on purpose? I mean when we are introduced to his character we learn that Nakyum is an alcoholic so he probably could function in that state much better than the average person...
I get that Yoon kept up the pretense of being the true object of NKs desire and shame on him, but Nk initiated the intimacy and even asked that Yoon!Inhun take it slow and gentle because it was his first time (awareness of the sexual act and consent). There were no threats, beatings, nada.
The second time they had sex...I agree that was rape, I said that already...Nk had the balls to tell Yoon he hated his guts afterwards. Yoon grabbed a sword to go take out Inhun and then comes the blowjob which sucks even more for Nakyum (pun intended, I couldn't help myself). Yoon tells him how it's gonna be from here on out--we will have sex and you will paint it. This led to the Nk tryin to gtfo with Inhun which didn't go well at all. Now that they are back in Yoon's compound. NK has given a verbal consent in front of a witness (Inhun) by saying 'I will do all that you have asked'. He could have resisted and let Inhun protect himself-- after all Inhun is a scholar who's status is higher than Nakyum.Nk is the one who decided Inhun needed protection and that he was willing to take one for the team (consent). Yoon didn't threaten him directly, just the guy he's in love with--all the choices were Nks. We all want to scream that kind of consent doesn't count but it is still consent.
The problem when you talk about "consent" in history (Josen area there) you give your modern point of view "consent" is not a historical notion, this is modern. We can't even talk about consent during Joseon because the moral and laws are extremely feodalist NK technically is Yoon's property, he can't say no or yes, that's not his right. Saying "consent" you are in modern position because in the Joseon Area low born are like object for aristocrat (like feodalism). Yoon is exactly in this logic, he hits his servant, and consider that NK is his. There can't have a discussion about consent or not because it's absurd, NK hasn't the possibility to say no, and more far hitting Yoon he commit a terrible "crime", a lot of people died because of this ! So when you say consent it's with a anachronism point of view, your opinion is not according the History. You mixes two period. Me my position is clearly anachronic yes, but it's not because "yeah in history it's ""normal"" a low born submitted to a aristocrat and so rape is "normal""""' that US, with our eyes we musn't say "this is rape, it's not consent" because the problem perhaps you, you can make the difference between history and now but not everyone watch the comment with "this is a fiction" or "I love it".... Nobody is forbidden to not love Painter of the night, people are free and do whatever they want but criticism is just necessary, we can't admire blindly Yoon, it's very dangerous because between fiction and reality ... The limits are complicated. Yourself you give important point about consent, so what if people thinks that finally drunk people it's finally consent... ? Some people can think that and don't do the difference between Joseon area and now. Like you do, I repeat myself if your point of view is in Joseon Area you can't talk about consent especially in the case of NK who is low born
@Asa a Western law about intoxicated and unconscious people can't give consent to sex was brought up and imho I thought it was way off base for this comic 's time period. Iwasn't trying to discount that but thought it more likely that the formula for rape would have included 'sex acts+ no consent/against one's will' was the same back then as it is now. I n a separate response...maybe to mister pumpkin? I did give some thoughts on NKs drunken state.
So are you saying there is no rape here at all because Nk is a lowborn with no rights so his consent was always a moot point? That cannot be correct, NK is a commoner not a slave. I am no expert on this era but if I go on what I see in the pages before me it appears NK did have a choice otherwise why waste the effort to manipulate him into giving consent? Why would Yoon bring Inhun into his compound from the beginning? If lowborns were that easy to make into your own personal bitch why did they bother with whorehouses back then, sex could be free for nobles?
Is my definition of rape too modern? Does anyone know if rape was defined as something other than sex acts forced on someone against their will/consent in this period and in this country?
Maybe y'all think I'm giving too much credit to the author. I think she does a great job of blurring the lines for the concept of consent here and is turning the yaoi rape trope on its ear. That's okay, I can respect the 'its rape in black and white opinion' but I still see grey and appreciate the work all the more for it because the sex isn't thrown in there for the hell of it.
If you take an history point of view, if a noble unfortunately rape, agressed a low born ... The moral will not condamn this act. Joseon is a very large period between approximately 1300 - 1900 (between 1800 - 1900 it's the very end I seriously think that the manhwa is between 1400 and 1700 but I'm not sure. So historically what is interesting to underline : NK is a low born and Yoon a noble, yes he is not a slave, but servant hadn't a better situation, see how Yoon treat his servant, I'm sorry if you hit them, practically kill them (Jihwa for example). Obviously in the law, there isn't write "poor are slaves" but we aren't in a Fairytale and Noble who abuses low born and use them like object it's common. It's not because it's not officially a slave that Nobles don't treat them like a slave, we didn't wait black code and colonialism to enslave people x) sorry when you treat someone like nothing, you humiliate him, and orders something and touch him like you want, it's a perfect definition of a slave, yeah that's a better name but it's just hypocrisy to say a servant especially between 1300 and 1700 couldn't be considered like a slave, mostly it was a slave's work, slave's treatment, slave's consideration, you are seen like inferior and if you are raped, justice doesn't care so the notion of consent hasn't any valor. And even Jihwa see NK just like Yoon's object, his manners to talk with him and treat him.
Na-Kyum is not just a commoner, Yoon he is at the service of NK, he sleeps in his domain and he obeys to him like other servants. And several time, Yoon make us remember that, he paints for him so he is HIS painter. And Yoon considers NK like all other Noble. This is just basic sociological approach, the link between Noble and low born is strict and this is a domination, a complete domination where the winner are Noble, so if a Noble rape a low born, consent is absurd because according this society aristocrat have all right because of their position. Violence hasn't the same sense at our period, modernity give us rules against rape, the woman condition change and the period is much less violent. We must know that poverty is catastrophic at this period with epidemia, illiteracy, poverty... Noble took advantages of this when they need. But WARNING : I don't say that ALL Noble was like this, but talking about consent is just... A dream. Women raped, wasn't a crime at this period, I searched laws against this in Korea... It's recent problematic even today but in Joseon it's just a dream to talk about consent... There aren't punition for rape, consent hasn't sense in a society where rape between Noble and Servant was courant, and this wasn't punished. Even if a servant would want complain, how ? A servant is nothing ! In the NK's case he can't even read ! Rape was take seriously is case really serious, murder, when Noble was touched (when it was a Noble who was raped).
For your questions so...
Consent is an affaire of rationality. The problem with drunk person I explain this to you ok. I will not repeat myself for this is clear.
But in the perspective of the story NK NEVER give his consent. Consent is an affaire of rationality you have two choices "YES" and "NO". But if you are forced to choose Yes for save your life or save your love's life, I don't call this consent. It's not manipulation, it's just blackmail. Yoon discovers that he couldn't have NK because he is already in love. He did nothing particular, I don't see a real machination, I don't see any effort, he is Rich and intelligent, he is just logic. He see that seduce him doesn't work, so he profited of the situation (with alcohol and then with NK's feelings toward In-Hun). It easy and yeah it was easy to have NK, sorry but he didn't wait, firstly he was interested by painter, then NK (he touches him, then rape him when He was drunk and when he sees that it wasn't working he begins to really become dangerous). It's so easy especially with NK who is in love with his teacher. It's just basic threath : blackmail.
After all Nobles don't want rape x) it's not because it's a reality (rape is not punished and consent has not valor) that ALL Nobles want to have their servants. It's NK interests Yoon it's just because he is beautiful and attract him (with painting and NK have this innocent erotism that Yoon don't find in other)
Yes rape exist in Joseon, but consentement concerning low born against a Noble hasn't sense. Because Noble wasn't punished, people "closed their eyes" and they didn't want problem. So Noble (I precise I talk about rapist, they didn't care about consent for them low born, servant should obey)
I didn't say that Painter of the night is not an interesting work. But accept the reality of this rape. and it's not because there are rape that the work is bad, reality is not flower with butterfly, yes there are rape but somewhere it represent something real and present in history.
If you say no-consent for you there aren't rape. Because the definition of rape (I don't talk about pedophilia because consent isn't enough in this case) is : consent.
So in history yes,there are rape, so sex without consent but in the moral, they didn't take importance of this, and if servant are considered like object, rape wasn't declared so the valor of consent is absurd.
Wow. Thank you for such a beautiful, detailed post. I'm impressed. And I agree with everything you said.
Once again thank you for your work.
Ok. Thanks again for responding to my post, I enjoyed the discussion.
You're so cute thanks !
It was a pleasure sorryyy for the mistakes I'm not an English person (๑•ㅂ•)و✧
Hold on..hear me out. Nakyum clearly didn't want to have sex with Yoon bc he loves Inhun, yeah...BUT he clearly told Yoon 'I will do all that you have asked' to divert Yoon's bloodlust off Inhun..Nakyum knew that meant sex and that he'd have to paint it. It is so much more tragic than a simple fictional yaoi rape. This author is really pushing the envelope with that yaoi trope. When Nakyum lost his virginity to Yoon, he gave his consent--Yoon was wrong to take advantage of Nakyum being so drunk he thought he was doing the deed with Inhun, again that is so much more complicated than rape or consensual sex. The only unarguably rape moments imho were the chapter before the bath scene--Yoon stopped when he saw Baek was not getting hard and the forced bj Nakyum performed to keep Yoon from killing Inhun for the evulz. This story needs a psychological tag and I need an aspirin and a fluffy manga break.