Dana endured an abusive father. It is not a by the way, not a side note and most certainly...

Seriously! Not everyone can push through such pain when the time is right. Hell, not everyone can escape the cycle of abuse. That she’s even trying is brave in itself, and I only hope she can truly feel free to be herself and follow her own heart.

No one is denying her abuse. What readers here are pointing out is that her abuse does not excuse her inaction AND most importantly, cheating.

If Dana is so broken, how can one physical conversation with Moon suddenly dispelled her catatonia and instantly she changes patterns of behavior, an emotional drive is suddenly presented?

What I'm trying to get at is, she is not broken to the point where 9+ months of inaction is all due to her trauma. That's a conscious decision on her side. If her senses were so clouded by trauma, how come just seeing Moon snapped her back to reality? That means she wasn't that clouded in her thinking at all, she KNEW what was happening in her surroundings that's why she was able to discern that Moon was in the room, alive, saving her.

What you possibly didn't catch is the core of our disdain which is readers praising Dana as 'brave', 'inspiring', 'strong' to be in a place where she is now, when in fact that is not true. Nothing of Dana's actions is worthy of being praised with those words, and that is the core of our disagreement NOT if Dana was abused or not.

I think she wasn't 'trying' at all, that is the reason why a lot of us are skeptical of Dana.

She did not cheat! She was in a forced arranged marriage. Choice was not hers. You cant cheat out of a union you did not willingly to enter. It why contracts are null and void when the lack of choice and free will is witnessed. Something as simple as coercion is enough to end a contract. She chose not to speak with the King. A simple conversation can end that if the person who she thought was dead comes back to life. If the person she had tasted slight freedom with comes back to her. I also want to honestly know what you wanted her to do? Save the kingdom? Run away? Save precious moon?
Moon made a choice to ber with her. They were both manipulated. She thought he died. She thought her last hope in the world was dead. Its why she had given up. I really want to know what brave actions you wanted her to carry out while under training to be the wife of a king..

Whaaat? What court of law would side with that kind of reasoning?

So it's okay to kiss another man outside of marriage since you don't love your husband? And it's not cheating because she wasn't willing to get married in the first place?

Do you hear yourself? How old are you anyway? Because if you're a teenager I would understand if you're still confused about morals since you're still young, but if you're 20-ish and that's how you think.... Girl you need to sit down and think this through.

By the way, Dana could have done great by the marginalized people of Seolhwa by sending them rations of food up in the mountains, or recommend advisor Kiha's suggestions to the King to transfer them to a trading area where they can create textile to support their tribe. Dana could have also made sure Ellin was getting her food rations by checking in on her. A word to the King definitely has power in the palace, Dana could have also asked her husband for her to personally pick her hand maidens so as to make sure it's not the queens' people taking care of her, she could have chosen women from her hometown to apply as her hand maidens.

Dana could do a lot of things in that 9+ months and she decided not to do anything instead.

Also, cheating is cheating.

If you use your own words to explain why you kiss a guy who isn't your boyfriend because you don't love your boyfriend anyway, what do you think that is called?

Cheating.

Oh my GOD!!!! How are you real? Based on that reasoning, our great Dana should have ended patriarchy in the territory! The hell are you going on about? You are giving Dana so much responsibility as if she is not living in the worst form of patriarchy alive. We should all follow that reasoning and end patriarchy as is my dear. Let's make sure no more girls are hurt by this evil society. I cannot believe how much you are placing on her shoulders.
Asking about my age, the audacity. You are the one demonizing a female lead because she hurt the feelings of a male lead. Talking about Moon deserves better. I cant believe you are ignoring the fact that it is a forced marriage. And yes, it would hold in a court of law if you did something without free will. When you sign contracts when drunk or under influence of a drug, it is enough to nullify the contract.
Free will is important. She if forced to marry by a father who beats the living shit out of her. She is not entering that union out of her will. Add on top she is scared.
My dear lord, I can't,
Cheating is not cheating if you did not choose to be with the partner. Lack of proper consent nullifies all that. Let me repeat for a millionth time, her father beats the living shit out of her, forces her to marry someone. If she does not comply, he will beat the living shit out of her. Please, look beyond your support for moon. You have to. You cannot be lecturing me about age when you think forced marriage is a valid relationship. You have no moral ground to lecture me when you put the feelings of man in a consenting relationship over the mental health of an abuse victim. You have no moral ground when you put a million responsibilities on the shoulders of an abused woman in a patriarchal society that locks women away because they did not make the cut to be kings wife. Forces them to sleep with the kings, a stranger they are not even allowed to look at then discards them.
You cannot board a boat of blaming women in support of a male lead and think you have any sort of moral high ground.

And there you go. Came right out of your own words. Cheating is alright.

Disgusting world view.

Was Dana getting beaten while she was inside the palace? Was she beaten when she agreed to make a pact with Ellin to accept marriage WITH HER OWN FREE WILL?

Please get your facts straight and don't make the facts misconstrued by painting a picture that Dana is getting beaten all the way to the ceremony of the wedding.

Also, doing something as small as picking your own hand maiden is not DESTROYING PATRIARCHY. No one told you she needs to destroy patriarchy, those simple tasks are very menial and yet to make a mountain out of mole hills to make it seem like it's such a gargantuan task for poor Dana.

Do you think women are that weak? You seem to view women like Dana feeble minded when in fact she can walk, talk, make decisions togethet with Ellin like a normal person. You're crippling Dana to excuse her poor behavior.

And no, cheating is not JUST hurting someone, you shame them and creates a doubt in their mind that they are not enough or deserving, or worse maybe it's their fault their spouse cheated on them.

You are pretty young based from your superfluous words that embodies moral decay. Cheating is cheating, and don't even go to Dana's consent because she agreed to Ellin's plan that she will become an empress and help Ellin's people.... THAT in itself is the smoking gun of Dana's consent.

She's a selfish girl who only thinks about herself.

And there is nothing amazing, insipiring or brave about that.

Loool! I cant with you. Let's just end that here. You are the one that seems young. You cant see past the complexities of abuse past the day it is happening. So if she is not getting beaten at the moment it means that the effects disappear? I am old enough. Probably older than you. I know better than to shame victims. I know better than to ride hard for male characters and ignore women. Women are incredibly strong. I can tell you that as a black woman. I can tell you sometimes that is all the world ever expects from you. Strength. Strong female leads that are not damsels in distress are very much needed. I know this because even I cant stand damsels in distress.
But what I will not do is shame victims al because they hurt the feelings of my precious male lead. Please.
At this point I don't care to argue because it is impossible to reason when you think forced marriage is valid. Forced marriage. Forced fucking marriage. Anyway, lets end this.
Dana's bravery is surviving abuse. She could have died. Abuse victims die. Ellin asked Dana to help her mom, which they found out was already being helped by Kiha. Ellin didn't ask any more of Dana. And stop trying to age shame me. When you are the one so blinded by passion for Moon you are shaming an abuse victim. Get off your high horse. beloved.

Without getting involved in this debate, BUT if I'm not mistaken Dana pretty much shut down the moment (if not before) she realized Moon was alive and married the Emperor. Soooo.. is the marriage truly valid? At what point was the marriage consummated and if so, it would of been against her will, right? The Emperor has been really patient with her, so I don't think he would've forced her to have sex. I could be wrong tho. But if its not consummated yet, again I ask is this even a valid marriage? If not, she not technically cheating. During those times consummation pretty much sealed the deal. Plus I need to go back and reread some chapters as it could be my imagination, but I think that Dowager witch is having them give Dana something to keep her "out of it"

i agree w u 100%. also if the author wanted the readers to feel bad for Dana then they would've put more evidence or just at least show her getting abused or get traumatised. im not saying that i want to see it but if its for the story and for the readers to feel symathy for Dana and understand Dana's future actions then yes. becuase right now im just judging her through the choices and decisions she is making now. people are allowed to just not like a character even if that character has the most tragic backstory in the universe, i dont care. because in the end its just a fictional story and people r allowed to have their opinions,(of course its a different story if its rl) and i know even the people who dont agree w Diana's actions or dont like her definetly would help someone they think is being abused in real life. this isnt a basis to see the way pple think in rl. the author is the person who decides what the character do and not everyone is going to see them in the same way. i even saw comments saying they dont rly like the mc so that just goes to show. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

I think @ryu meant that since Dana consented, she is responsible for her actions. It makes a lot of sense. My issue with it is that there is immense power imbalance between the women in the story and the men. I feel like the women are trying their best to follow the path set out for them so as not to risk their lives. And it is true, until a marriage has been consummated, it is null and void. The whole process of marriage also turns the stomach.

I feel like there has been sufficient evidence that she was abused. But then again, I get blinded big time by abuse. Something happened in my past that seems to have made me see red when I see abuse. For me, the women don't really have a choice in the marriage to the king. I know they could run away but I if I remember correctly, I think they would be killed. So the options for this marriage are invalid. This is based on my assessment from the whole situation. The argument that Dana is a cheater seems to stem from her previous engagement, the entanglement with moon then marrying the King.
My opinion is that the only relationship Dana consented was with Moon. All the rest were her father's choices. Marriage to the king was after she thought her lover had died in a battle she sent him to.
It is not really about Dana being a damsel in distress, it is more of acknowledging the effects of abuse without needing explicit representation of it. We can also tell she is scarred when the king lifts his hand and she thinks he will hit her and starts to tremble. But like you said, this is a fictional story. So opinions will be differing. All in all, I really don't believe the women in this story have much power to be badass. I mean original Solwah killed herself after the betrayal. I think the current Solwah can move the way she does because she has had a taste of what women empowerment looks like in the world she came from.

If we are going by technicalities, I agree that the marriage wasn't consummated. But I'm speaking morally, if you are married, doesn't give you a pass to sleep with another person just because you haven't consummated your marriage yet. That's cheating because, no matter the circumstance of your feelings, you went through the wedding (the parade in the town is done after the wedding vows, I believe), and now suddenly all that wedding ceremony doesn't hold weight after Dana kisses the man he loves?

All I'm saying is, yeah she can love whichever man he wants, but she could have exercised restraint and not throw herself to another man acting all romantic, readers see it as exhilarating that she did all that in the name of love, while glossing over her actions looking reprehensible as a wife. Dana could have acted way better than doing and saying scandalous things, she could have waited for the divorce before initiating physical contact again with Moon. And to remind everyone, it was the ancient times. All that sleeping with another man and initiating kisses and divorce ideas are pretty modern ideas in itself. I can't even piece it together that as an alleged 'oppressed' woman, Dana pretty much did the liberated things in the playbook.

And endorsing this kind of behavior is what bothers me. Yeah it's just a story, but stories are where young girls form their world view by while growing up, aside from a lot other media and influence, and condoning this type of behavior enables women to have a skewed moral compass.

That's my main issue. Not whether she was abused or not.

That's also the issue. The author writes women as tokens for men to strive for, the women are portrayed here as motivations for men to do their goals instead of giving these women proper representation.

You know, Dana could have done knitting for that entire 9+ months and she would've probably created a great sweater by now.

What I'm saying is, all these very flat characterization of women are so boring.

Yeah some women break differently than others, but what is the point of showing a catatonic Dana for 9+ months in the story? Only to be snapped back to reality when she saw her love interest again?

It rubs me off the wrong way because it portrays that women are weak and ONLY a man can save them from themselves.

What the fuck. Both Moon and Light were traumatized in their past too but they came out perfectly fine in the story, but if it's women who were traumatised the author decides she needs to be an invalid until the man show up to save her.

And readers are celebrating that as empowering.

Eww.

If being saved by a man is empowering, I bet they think snatching someone else's man is also empowering --all the wrong reasons to stand by a great cause.

I will make my own case because at this point the last think I need is to be lumped into some damsel in distress supporter. "If being saved by a man is empowering, I bet they think snatching someone else's man is also empowering --all the wrong reasons to stand by a great cause"
None of my arguments mention Moon's saving. None. I am nowhere advocating for Dana to be saved. I don't even bother with the snapping back from her state by moon. What I am looking at is if Dana's actions were truly her own or to some extent fueled by the abuse she went through. Her state and her marriage, just how much of that really gave her a choice aside from treason or being locked away.
Like I said, the author has created a very harsh reality for women. A common case with many manga authors in Shoujo trope. The forced concubine to the King, quickly followed by a rape session, because no way that night they spend with him is consent when the alternative is death.
So women don't have a choice. Dana has abuse added on top of that. And like I mentioned, the women in the story seem to not be the most empowered. The original Solwah took a way out.
Dana's story to me is one of someone surviving bad dealt cards. Not empowerment. That is why I am calling her victim of abuse not hero. It is also not a story of celebration. I am wondering just how valid are these marriages when their is really no choice to begin with?

"I bet they think snatching someone else's man is also empowering" Dead the idea that men can be snatched. That implies that the woman has all the responsibility in the affair. Men are not babies that are unconscious of their decisions. If they are having an affair, they were willing and active participants in the affair. And this thinking is why sometimes wives fight the one mistress only for the man to move on the next one.
Women who sleep with married men are responsible for their actions. So do the married men who sleep with single women and vice versa. But you will notice women get heat for cheating while a lot of times men get away with it. It is very easy to blame Dana for kissing moon. But just like you are holding her responsible for cheating, hold Moon responsible for kissing a married woman as well. We can't infantilize men while cussing out women.

Oh don't you worry, if the Emperor had sex with a concubine or somebody else I'd call him out too for saying he loves Dana but goes and does that. I placed heavy emphasis on Dana because she's the one beong celebrated as 'inspiring' when her cheating behavior is nothing but. It's not because of her gender.

If Moon was being tauted as heroic or inspiring or what, I'd be criticizing Moon just as hard as Dana but the spotlight is on Dana when, in my opinion, clear moral decay is present in the celebrant.

Also, aside from that. My point still stands, in those 9 months of doing nothing, she could have at least knitted a sweater and achieved something instead of nothing. 9 months of inaction with an excuse of abuse is just terrible. I've never seen a real life case of a woman who went through that amount of trauma but suddenly recovers her senses because of a love interest, it's overly dramatized and portrays innacurate representations of abuse victims and women in general.

It all boils down to romanticism, disregarding the very flat portrayal of a 'could-have-been-great' character. She could die the next chapter and it doesn't really affect the plot since her contribution to the story is to stir an edge between the two brothers and portray the grandma as a foul villain.

If she also dies, readers will be sad not because an abuse victim didn't survive, but because it destroys the romantic pairing with Moon.

Nah, I honestly think there is more than enough material to drag the male characters just as hard as Dana if not more. I have seen people pitying Moon. For what? He might not have known she was engaged in their first encounter. But when he was kissing her and running to save her, he was well aware that she was the king's bride. His brother. he king even tells him to go after her well aware she is still in love with him. Let's also not talk about his complicity in that charade of concubine audition for the King. I understand betrayal, but if you truly cared about someone, is it okay to watch them in the tenuous rapey audition to be Kings wife? He is the one jumping over roof ropes all ninja. He is a recipe for hero in a story. Isn't her HE

Moving on to the King, soem readers sayign he deserves better, where? He deserves nothing. Why is he getting pity? For the fact that Dana does not love him? The same man complicit in violence and oppression of women? The same one who gets to rape all concubines as he decides who he likes? Remember his arrogant ' i am not used to being rejected?' He benefits greatly from the patriarchy in this story.

I don't think women have been made as prizes for men in this story. I think it is the other way round. Men have been made into a necessity for women. You get discarded of the king does not fancy you. Remember the women the Queen mother tortured to death? As evil as she is, she does not even come close to the King. Selecting and raping young handmaids yet absolutely oblivious of the death awaiting them. Worse when he found out, decided to lock up Moon and Light's mother in a typical stalker/abusive/controlling freak that he is. He is directly responsible for the horror that was Moon and Light's childhoods.
Kiha on the other hand is supposed to be this hero. Yet we see his incompetence through and through. Lets not forget the war/genocide of Azurites he started all over the territory. Then he gets the prize of an Azurite girl whose family and people suffered pain due to his actions? Solwah gets locked up and what does he do? A whole nine months? Boo hoo, so still organizing and finishing plans while Solwah, the women whose suffering he is directly responsible is locked away n solitude.
Dana has not in my opinion been portrayed as anything but a poor victim. Not brave or empowering. Just a victim. Her crying, her attempt to escape marriage initially, her shock at the king's resemblance to Moon and eventually her silence and non action in those nine months. Her story does not come out as admirable. Just a victim and the author makes sure to remind us of her abuse ever so often. If there is a woman potrayed as hero, it would be Solwah. Not Dana.
I just think it is unfair to put so much responsibility on the women and call for them to prosecute their abusers and enlist all these other actions to end oppression. While on the other hand, the men are not receiving any heat for their complicity and immense benefit from the oppressive patriarchy they actively enforce.
All I am seeing is the same old. Holding women to higher standards, being quick to judge them, blaming them for things happening to them and expecting them to free themselves. Meanwhile crickets on the men.
There are two extremes when it comes to women portrayal in stories, the damsel in distress awaiting hero man and the bad-ass woman who survives all. You ever wondered why the female characters in Shonen are badass? The same Shonen that will have her with unrealistic boobs, unrealistic waist and strip her to her bikini for fan service? That depiction of women can also be problematic. It drives the narrative that women can only be admired when they are being extra ordinary. That is why the same misogynistic authors are able to write her so well. Our worth as women is mostly measured in approximation to men. Damsel or you are so badass unaffected by the suffering at the hands of men, you are a super human! The irony is that both play actively into misogyny. Their lenses are either oppressed women men will save you or be a hero and survive all your obstacles. None of this give women the humanity to be weak because weakness is real, all too real. To be weak, resilient but without needing the interference of men your survival. I agree Dana's snapping out of it after seeing Moon is problematic. Damsel in distress vibes all over that.
However, it is not easy to break out of systemic oppression. Resilience is admirable, but it is sad when that is all expected from an oppressed population. To survive it all.
If you notice, this story is actually touting men as heroes. And women are expected to win their favour to stand a chance of survival. So yeah, there is more than enough to hold them to the same standards as Dana.

@Kou OMG for once I agree with you! yes on the first paragraph, men are made to be heroes in the story and women just a token to emphasize their heroism. And yeah he's also a dick.

But on the emperor though, I don't think he's rapey. His situation creates for free rape culture, but he does not participate in raping any of the women or even forcing them to sleep with him despite the norm. I'm not excusing his passivity with the concubine culture, but he does his best to respect the women according to the norms of the ancient times. So, no, I'm not really gonna grill the king too hard, he could've been a brute and a rapey power tripper, but he acts decent for a someone who wields a lot of power.

as to the former king "Selecting and raping young handmaids yet absolutely oblivious of the death awaiting them"
> GIRL YES! that shit was vile!

"Her story does not come out as admirable"
> yes girl! that is my whole point! yeah, she's a victim of abuse, but there's nothing admirable about her character in the story. had the author pivoted her story as her struggling from abuse instead of focusing on romance, she would have been admirable.

I just think it is unfair to put so much responsibility on the women and call for them to prosecute their abusers and enlist all these other actions to end oppression.
> I would understand that it is hard for ellin, the mother of moon and light too. but in my opinion, Dana is in a position of power that she could have easily used to make small steps in making her life better, or her friend ellin, or maybe even the people of azurite. it was failed potential on her part. I wish a lot more readers acknowledge that fact instead of getting giddy because 'ooh they kissed yass queen, so brave, so inspiring'

All I am seeing is the same old. Holding women to higher standards, being quick to judge them, blaming them for things happening to them and expecting them to free themselves. Meanwhile crickets on the men.
> Ellin tried to escape so that's initiative to do something despite the setbacks. I'm focusing on the women because they are portrayed so poorly in the story when they are also the focus of the author. There's a little bit focus on Kiha and his backstory, and his backstory is compelling because it drove him to achieve so much in life, imagine he wasn't even royalty, he's a foreigner too, and despite all that prejudice, he became a powerful man. THAT is what makes Kiha different from the rest of the characters here. The stark contrast of how Kiha is portrayed as a man so different from Dana is the problem. Since Dana is a fictional character, the author could have done her story with more depth, but instead the author portrays all the women as delicate beings whose problems only men can solve (Dana's father gets killed by the king so she doesn't get abused anymore, Moon will take her away if the plan to divorce doesn't happen, Ellin's people got taken care of by Kiha instead of Dana as an empress).

"I agree Dana's snapping out of it after seeing Moon is problematic. Damsel in distress vibes all over that."
> YES!

"However, it is not easy to break out of systemic oppression. Resilience is admirable, but it is sad when that is all expected from an oppressed population. To survive it all."
> EXACTLY! I wish Dana and Ellin were shown not just survivors of the systemic oppression but characters who have gone beyond the surviving, and thrived as well. Kind of like how Queen Daenerys started off weak, abused, oppressed and raped, but giiiirl she didn't just plan to stop the wheel, she planned to break the wheel herslelf. (out of topic, but I compared Dana's situation to Danny from GOT because of the similarities)

If you notice, this story is actually touting men as heroes. And women are expected to win their favour to stand a chance of survival.
> UH HUH. AGREE.

So yeah, there is more than enough to hold them to the same standards as Dana.
> Yeah, Nah, I think Dana's standards are so low based from the amount of praises she got from the readers for barely surviving (and mind you, the focus of the praises are more on how romantic it is to get back with Moon). I'm holding Dana to the standards I set out same to Ellin, because they're the focus of the story, more so on Dana on the last chapters, that's why I'm hammering on Dana's inactions since those were the recent chapters discussed.

I guess we made a full cycle in the end. It's good to know we were on the same page just different parts of it. It's been a fun interacting albeit the initial emotions running high. But again I am happy to interact on this site. It's good to meet pure intellect on a place you also seek escape from. Thanks for the discourse.

Girl, you are spot on about everything, great insight and comprehension. Keep doing you, cause these rebuttal just don't hold up.