Problems abound

TachibanaChiharu October 23, 2020 6:16 am

You're better off not reading this topic if you like the series, because I did not, and I don't have much nice to say. I can't help but look at this and what it could've been if it hadn't gotten lost in its own self-absorbed grandeur. The stockholm-syndrome B-plot romance and the stereotypical leads were the main culprits here, actively detracting from both the more interesting conspiracy A-plot, but most especially, from the likeability of the characters over all. Given just how much relationship wrap-up there is at the end of this series, to not really like either character involved in it really makes it a slog to get through.

Also, there's something a little head scratching about just how similar this series is to Penthouse XXX. The semes/ukes are basically the exact same characters (personalities, roles, appearances, jobs; everything, basically) in both series. The uke lives with the seme and is employed by the seme, who is a rich CEO. Cold/frigid things. Bodyguard vs assassin are very similar jobs. Even the character colorings are almost identical. Not sure which comic came first, tbh.

Anyway, let's get into it. (you should probably stop here. this is waaay too long)

(spoilers)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

We'll start with some easy things first.

The art seemed OK most of the time, and the color art was appreciated, but many many times, especially with Felix, it looked like he was cross-eyed. Or whatever the opposite of cross-eyed is, where the eyes aren't looking in the same direction, but outwards. It was frequent and irritating to look at and I found myself constantly distracted from whatever was going on in the story to stare at outways-cross-eyed Felix and wonder if Giovanni found that to be hot.

As far as tropes go, it's cute that so many orphans grow up to be billionaires so that the typical high-octane seme in the BL story can have a sob-story background. This is so lazy, and it's never really explained how he got to where he is today. But, I can't really hang the pervasiveness of this sin on this comic in particular, since it's used so many other places. I can, however, ding it for not even trying to explain how he ended up as a CEO at 32.

Moving on. Having sex in extremely inappropriate places, at inappropriate times, just to show how much of a "tiger in the bed" the seme is. The uke being a typical stand-offish, stubborn, sex-hating, i-don't-want-it-but-i-kind-of-dooooo tsundere. Cornball date stuff, movie theaters, flowers, fancy dinners, cooking for one another -- it might be at least somewhat cute/endearing to read if you like the characters, but if you don't, it makes you want to gag. The comic trying to show off Giovanni's awesome noble seme-ness by doing stupid/inappropriate things like exposing himself to an attack to protect Felix's sister so he can look cool to the uke and reader, and then completely forgetting about Felix's sister in the next scene. There are loads more tropes, but I don't want to get bogged down in minutiae this early on. Instead of rolling in tropes like this so hard, ground things in reality more and come up with something different for your characters to be doing than stuff out of a typical BL romance.

Next thing worth noting is that, at the beginning of the story, no context is provided for both Felix's and Giovanni's "normal" before they get up to the hijinks of the plot. This lack of establishment for both characters makes it really hard to empathize and connect with either of them. We don't see what a normal day at Giovanni's office is like, that he is super competent, overworked, and always cold (temperature), lonely, etc etc. We don't see really anything about Felix and his life other than he's being forced to do something to Giovanni by someone, but with no more details than that. Giovanni in particular suffers because of this, since without the context of him actually being portrayed as the CEO of a company, in that he does high-stress work and is indispensable, he just comes across as a worthless rich guy who shirks his duties and gets his way when he tantrums. He's freaking annoying. And it takes forever to get to a point in the plot where you actually do see him working his butt off, doing anything for anyone but himself, but it's really far too late by the time the comic gets there. There were many times near the beginning where I found myself asking, "does he actually ever go to work?", "I'd like to paid millions for doing nothing", "if he just pawns his work off on his secretary all the time, why don't they fire him and hire the secretary as the CEO instead?", etc.

Anyway. Now on to sexuality problems. Neither character states that they are gay at the beginning of the story (or even throughout the entire comic), and yet Felix goes traipsing into some kind of bar at the beginning, somehow knowing Giovanni would be there, and basically flings himself at another man with no shame. Was Giovanni in a gay bar? Never mentioned. When Felix grabs Gio's hand as he tries to leave, and bellows out a confession at him in the middle of the bar, it's horribly cringy because there is no way to determine how awkward this is supposed to be in the context of the setting. Will all the straight people nearby gasp at the flamboyant gay couple having a fight? Is this actually a gay bar and all the gays just ignore this display as something that normally happens? Is there a problem with a powerful CEO being seen in a gay bar? Or in a normal bar, being confessed to by a presumably gay man? But no, there's nobody around reacting to this display in order to provide any context, so we also don't know how to react either.

Then, without any kind of consideration about safety or sexuality or propriety, Giovanni decides to yoink Felix off to bone, with still no context around whether either character is gay or not, or whether they should even be pursuing sex at this point. Just because someone confesses to you doesn't mean they want to f!ck right here, right now. Anyways, Gio's behavior here makes it seem like he might be gay when asking Felix if he's ever done this before. But, at a higher level, it really just seems like all Gio cares about at this moment is the warmth he can feel with Felix, and nothing else really matters. Like if the warmth was attached to a woman, he'd have taken her without half a thought instead. On the one hand, this seems very progressive, in a "hearts not parts" sort of mindset. But on the other hand, only caring about the warmth is treating someone like an object, which is really crappy. I talk about this more in-depth later. Anyway, back to sexuality. Honestly, I feel like Felix is likely not gay, and Giovanni is likely an "I've never really thought about it" bisexual, given how the plot develops. By the end it doesn't matter anymore, but it does at the beginning of the story, since it would provide a foundational set of expectations surrounding their interactions to come and immerse the reader more.

Anyway. Giovanni then abuses his power of authority over Felix, now his hired bodyguard, by raping him over and over throughout the story. Never once does Felix say he wants it in the first 2/3 of the story, and is always telling Giovanni to stop it and has the worst, ugliest scowl on his face every time Gio starts smooching and licking and groping him. But Felix can't quit/leave, because he has to do the task for Oliver. So he tolerates it. Even after Felix and Gio have a moment in chapter 50-something, where the whole data-stealing situation comes to light, Felix is still telling Giovanni to stop it. Now, to be fair, Felix does initiate things sometimes, but those times are always caveatted with a "...but" of some sort. Like when Giovanni was hospitalized; either Felix had sex with Giovanni or Giovanni died. Not really much of a choice. He also initiated things to distract Giovanni while trying to download the data on Giovanni's computer. One time he was drunk, which IMO doesn't count. Another time Felix felt it was owed because he'd just caused Giovanni's company to lose the big contract they were after. All of these things aren't really him wanting sex, but are instead mostly Felix just feeling obligated into providing sex to Giovanni. Then of course Felix finally drinks the kool-aid by the 2/3 mark, convincing himself he's in love with selfish Giovanni, now that he's been sexed into submission. This whole story is just window-dressing on a tired rape-to-love/stockholm-syndrome plot.

Furthermore, Giovanni's problem of treating Felix like a space heater is particularly arrrrgh. This is objectification at its core. Giovanni orders Felix to go buy condoms just to get him out of the house so he can talk to his brother alone, and when Felix returns without condoms (note: because he doesn't want to have sex), Giovanni tells him its his own fault that he's going to have a stomach ache from Gio forcing raw sex on him. Hey, how about you have some consideration for your partner and wait until tomorrow when you can pick up some condoms? Whatever, just be my cum-dumpster, Felix! Later, Felix confesses all his sins to Giovanni, and instead of reassuring and comforting him in such an emotionally vulnerable moment, Gio instead inappropriately sucks him off. At the same time, Giovanni also tells Felix he gets to basically be his sex slave for the rest of his life to make up for the stealing of the data! Argh. Giovanni knows that Felix has been forced to steal this data by Oliver, who has him by the figurative balls, and has been threatening his family's lives. Giovanni should instead be showing how he is the better person by letting go of any notions of Felix owing him something and letting Felix choose what he wants to do instead of forcing him to do whatever Giovanni wants. Also, just because he lets him go later for a completely different reason (as part of the deal he made with Oliver to get Oliver to back off of Felix) does not mean that Giovanni didn't mean it (be my sex slave forever) the first time. He had no way of predicting the future. You can't backtrack Giovanni's personality and motivations like this and expect me to believe it. Not after 50 chapters of build up. Oliver being an even worse ahole was what it took to force Giovanni to take a step back and treat Felix (sort of) like a human rather than a possession. Also, it's totally weaksauce for the story to force Giovanni to let Felix go rather than making it a character choice moment where Giovanni decides on his own to be a better person.

A few random things --

I find it hilarious that when Giovanni forces Felix to be hospitalized after Oliver tied him up and jerked him off, Giovanni used himself coming onto Felix as a litmus test to determine if Felix was having PTSD over the sexual assault stuff Oliver did to him. But YOU did much worse things to Felix, Giovanni, OF COURSE he would react with displeasure when you came on to him! He ALWAYS did! Giovanni is so deluded I don't even.

It's also irritating to have Felix stuck in this situation with Oliver due to the cost of paying for hospital bills (for his mother!), and then have him get into the exact same situation with Giovanni (when Felix's mom gets hit by the car). One can only hope that Giovanni would be a decent enough person to just let it go rather than try to extort favors out of Felix as well. Oh wait. Oh. Oooooohhhh.

When Giovanni, in his deal with Oliver, fires Felix, he's cold with Felix, telling him basically to go away and stay away from him. And then after a few days or whatever (time gap unclear), Felix goes to the hospital because his friend told him Giovanni was hospitalized. The fact that his friend told him this with no context, and Felix asking no questions, is just bizarre. In the real world, when someone calls you on the phone to tell you someone you care about is hospitalized, you ask them why and what the prognosis is, and then they tell you. But then at the hospital, when Felix runs away and Giovanni chases him, after that, things just kind of go back to normal without a single word about the firing, why it was done, why Giovanni acted so cold to Felix, etc. It's so weird and nonsensical, like the author forgot to include a chapter where they had that conversation or something. WTH.

During the Felix-goes-to-jail arc, his mom and sister never go visit him, and never mention a thing about it during or after, ever. Wut? How long was he in there, anyway??? He's bailed out at some point I guess but it's not even shown so you have to just figure it out from context clues, the fact that he's going places with Giovanni a that aren't jail. No one ever tells Felix on screen that Giovanni isn't the president of the company anymore, but at some point Felix just knows this to be the case. It's kind of a big deal for Felix to find out about this on-screen, since Giovanni gave the company up FOR FELIX. How could you not show the argument they get in or whatever about it?! Oops!

Towards the end, Giovanni chastises his brother Leo for getting Felix drunk while he's sick, then Giovanni proceeds to have sex with the drunk and sick Felix instead of just putting him to bed. How stupid and hypocritical. This whole concept of "let's use every excuse to cram in another sex scene" just ruins the times when the sex does matter, because by the end you're spammed with so much of it you become desensitized to it, stop caring, and start paging-down through it just to get to the next part that actually has plot stuff where you can read something more interesting and not completely predictable.

Also, their whole lovey-dovey couple ending way overstays its welcome by chapter 88, even if you ignore the fact their relationship was incepted by rape after rape after rape. The story should've ended when they exchanged "I love yous" and the plot with Oliver was wrapped up. Arguably, the plot with Oliver should've been pushed up and a lot of the BS relationship clowning-around should've been cut. Junk plot threads like "the disapproving brother" or "Giovanni gets sick" or "Felix gets sick" or "Hey we found some sex toys" are pandering plot tropes that should not be there unless you're going to do something new and unique with them. Just cut the typical BL BS and focus on the conspiracy story.

It would've been nice if the story had bothered to wrap-up the doping scandal, the inception for all of this. You know, with the arrest of Oliver and cohorts, it should come to light that the doping accusations were false, and were fabricated to hide the fact that Felix was J Group Daddy's biological son, and then Felix's name is cleared. Y'know, just saying. >:/

In the side stories, Giovanni and fam have italian names, and he and Felix fly to France, and speak English. This was a little head-scratching, but it's probably just some translation hijinks. I'm guessing their names in the Korean version are actually Korean names, and that they go to France and Felix speaks Korean with Noah (not English). Can't really confirm this though.

Having Felix get salty because Giovanni had dated someone else before him is really kind of lame. They're both adults. Giovanni acts like a horn dog all the time, so you'd have to expect it (even if it didn't happen to be the case). Most adults have dated someone else before; why would Gio be an exception. This sort of plot is a remnant of BL's shoujo roots (this dumb obsession with being someone's "first" for everything), and it's way overused and frankly inappropriate in R-19 stories about adults. Putting it in here does not help the comic at all with the problems it has, but instead drags it down even more.

Shoehorning in a short about how Felix and Giovanni had met once as kids was lame and totally pandering BS that was tossed in at the last moment. Two people don't need to be destined from birth in order to have a good relationship or to find a partner loves them a lot. This was dumped into our faces with no warning as some yet-another-thing for the readers to be all "d'awwww" about, but it's never mentioned when it flashes back forward. For the characters to never have realized it by the end... why put it in the story at all? It doesn't really matter if we know. It matters if THEY know. And they don't seem to.

Really, the side stories/extras should've been about some of the side characters instead.

And now for a rumination on this whole plot to steal the data, in general --

I just don't see how Felix completing his assigned task by Oliver really has anything to do with Oliver's mom wanting to kill him and his whole family. The problem Oliver's mom has with Felix will still exist whether or not Felix does the task. In that - Felix is still alive and can claim his birthright as the heir of whoever J Group daddy either way. Felix's existence is the threat. Whether or not he can be useful is beside the point.

Not only that, but Oliver's mother forcing the doping scandal effectively brought to light to Felix that Felix was the legit heir of the gazillionaire, which is the opposite of what she wants. Felix knowing about his heritage means he he could've used it as leverage at any point with both Oliver and Oliver's mother. Or just decided to bring both of them down. The two even said at the beginning of the story that J Group Daddy would protect his biological son over the fake son, so there seems to be nothing to lose here. Felix should've pulled the trigger on this the instant Oliver tried to blackmail him.

Meanwhile, Oliver should've just pretended to help Felix when the doping scandal hit by going off and then coming back to say he couldn't do anything, that someone more powerful than him was pulling the strings. Oliver doing what he instead did ruined his relationship with Felix (which he didn't seem to want to happen) while initiating the ruination of his inheritance since Felix now knows (which he also didn't seem to want to happen), unless he could manage to kill Felix first before Felix could contact big daddy J (which he also didn't seem to want to happen). Could you possibly more thoroughly ruin your own life with moronic choices, Oliver?

Also, Felix accepting Oliver's ridiculous scheme meant that Felix would have to believe that Oliver had any sort of ability to control what his mother did. Which was BS, because he definitely didn't, given how the doping scandal went down. She operates outside of her son, and does what she wants. And she wants prestige and billions, doesn't care about Oliver's feelings or Felix's poor sob story. Felix doing the task was not going to change the amount of control Oliver had over his mother. I mean, maaaaaaybe if the result of the stolen data was that Oliver would inherit immediately, no take-backs, then sure, ok. But that's not what happens at all.

And another thing. If Oliver really was in love with Felix, he should've just used all his power and influence and money to get him out of the situation with Oliver's mom to begin with rather than getting him involved in dangerous tasks that might get him killed, or exposing him to attacks from Oliver's mom since Oliver was tracking Felix's location during this, or Oliver threatening Felix and his family, making Felix increasingly angry at him, or any number of things that Oliver did that someone who loved Felix wouldn't have done. This whole thing is just stupid, and Felix should've said "eff off" the instant Oliver copped an attitude with him during the doping scandal. (I might ask if the police are a thing, but why bother at this point)

In the end, this story has so many problems it would require a complete rewrite to fix it. Even basic things like character personalities need to be completely reworked. Felix needs something personality-wise that breaks him out of that typical shoujo-heroine / BL-uke stereotype. Giovanni needs to be shown to be a good guy from the beginning, and their "relations" need to be shown to be consensual. Oliver needs to be treated as character with his own hopes and dreams and act accordingly, you know, in his actual self-interest, rather than doing mean things to Felix for no reason other than the story needs a bad guy doing stuff to Felix that he doesn't like.

Also, I liked Oliver's character design way more than Giovanni's. YMMV :P

I've said enough. Penthouse XXX, while having its own flaws, was better.

Responses
    komerebiiiii October 24, 2020 8:53 pm

    mr ma’am you wrote 26 or 27 paragraphs, you could of dropped it and move on??! I didn’t read a damn thing

    audac1ty October 26, 2020 4:18 am

    if you don’t gtfo. who tf u think you are? the yaoi review god? you wrote this long ass paragraph and for what. idc how you feel about the story have some respect for the author cause we both know you can’t do any better.

    TachibanaChiharu October 26, 2020 8:00 am

    Hmm so I see -- continued personal attacks, attempts to silence me again, more people complaining without having even read my topic, others trying to shame me because I'm capable of typing more than a single sentence, and others acting like theirs is the only valid opinion on the internet. ¯|_(ツ)_|¯

    gachan_2772 October 26, 2020 11:55 pm
    Hmm so I see -- continued personal attacks, attempts to silence me again, more people complaining without having even read my topic, others trying to shame me because I'm capable of typing more than a single se... TachibanaChiharu

    hey did u not read my fuckin comment my guy. i said over and over that u have the right to ur own opinion but u should’ve also realized that this was how people would respond. many people must find comfort in this manhwa and then to read a whole ass essay about someone trashing it.. u should’ve already known how it was gonna go down. u have the right to ur own opinion but some of the things u trashed about this manhwa was absolutely absurd. u can dislike this manhwa as much as u want but as i said before dont give constructive criticism if the person themself didnt ask for it. i tried to be as nice as i could in my comment but it seems u can’t realize how u were wrong in some aspects as well. just as u have the right to dislike this manhwa, other have the right to dislike ur comment.

    Tsunmimi October 27, 2020 5:08 pm
    Who tf asked you to post a reply to a review you likely didn't even read, like a weirdo? You defend so much for something that anyone is allowed to like or dislike at their own discretion. Maybe you should have... TachibanaChiharu

    I’m so glad the author can’t see this shit and feel down about this rubbish you think it’s called creative criticism, you seriously need took your time to write something this long filled with complain upon complain like ewwww

    Tsunmimi October 27, 2020 5:11 pm
    Omg ok... As a person that draws, it reallyyyyyy irritates me that u dissed the art. The art is stunning and the artist put sm effort into drawin them. And ur complaining about a couple scenes where felix’s e... gachan_2772

    You are seriously the most calm person I have ever seen like I respect you for this comment and I hope that the person reads this and takes your advice seriously

    Tsunmimi October 27, 2020 5:14 pm
    No one asked for my opinions, but no one asked for anyone else's opinions either. ¯|_(ツ)_|¯ TachibanaChiharu

    Yeah I just reported this rubbish hopefully they get to delete your comment or maybe even delete your account permanently
    Hopefully

    PebbleStone October 28, 2020 5:30 am
    Damn, this is hilarious mdr.10

    Thank you I was just very surprised when I scrolled down and it didn’t stop and just kept going (⊙…⊙ )
    My finger hurts every time I have to scroll past this

    TachibanaChiharu May 11, 2021 8:14 am

    Still here, and still tellin' it like it is. The first 88 chapters of this still aren't good, not sure about any of the new stuff. As shocking as it may be, one person's opinion on the internet didn't seem to prevent the reprisal of the comic. Perhaps next time, maybe consider bothering to address any point made in the original post rather than acting like your opinions are better than anyone else's just because you liked the comic and someone else didn't.

    Also with specific reference to the person complaining about how I complained about one extremely minor aspect of the art -- 1) holy moses, I even said the art was mostly ok but that Felix is drawn outwardly-cross-eyed in some scenes which is distracting. I'm not even the only person in the comments to have pointed this out. So sorry my observation about someone else's art offends you. But it's true. 2) Also, I do in fact know something about art and digital art, so your opinion about this isn't a automatically more valid. You have made a bad assumption here. 3) Also, opinions about art do not require an art degree or even experience; since, yannow, we all presumably have eyeballs. Do you go around on the comments sections of other series yelling at people for liking art you don't because they don't have an art degree? 4) Just because someone puts in effort doesn't automatically mean they did it perfectly. Again, I point out that the art was mostly fine, and one small aspect of it I found distracting. 5) I don't know why you seem to think that commercial products are beyond reproach, and cannot be criticized for their problems. 6) My comment on the art was constructive criticism. Meaning that maybe the author didn't realize this issue regarding their own artwork, and now that it's been pointed out, they can correct this problem in future chapters/series. But realistically, the author will never see this. However, all this makes me wonder if you're implying that any given artist that you like is so amazing that they never have room to grow/improve? 7) It's cute that you assume I go around intentionally trying to make random people on the internet feel bad about the things they do online just because I disliked a comic you liked. Wow, you are shameful person to make such an assumption.

    senamay May 11, 2021 12:42 pm

    this is really embarrassing

    senamay May 11, 2021 12:44 pm

    u need a job cause all u do is write long ass reviews on mangas u don’t like that no one asked for .

    Alternative_Account May 11, 2021 12:55 pm

    I know this was made months ago but you're literally comparing it to a whole different manhwa. Like, so what if they feel alike to read? Did they copy each other? The Authors did not even KNEW each other. Also, this is a fictional manhwa. Of course it will have problems and imperfections. Most tv shows have lots of problems right? Like how drama tv show's character's acts so obvious, the trope is always the same, and when someone gets hurt, even if it's just falling off a lake, they get amnesia or commas? Horror stories also, the main characters LITERALLY TRY TO SPLIT UP AND SCREAM "OH THE MONSTER IS HERE! LETS GO DOWNSTAIRS!" Man, you can literally sense how stupid they are! So my point in this statement is... Whatever you see problems and imperfections in this, it does not matter! Everything, literally everything, is not perfect! You cannot find a manhwa perfect enough for your taste! Lastly, please stop comparing manhwas. Sure, you think Penthouse XXX is better than Hold me Tight but that does not mean you should write a whole, long, essay why you don't like it and convince people to not like it too. Everyone has different tastes, not just your liking matters. I feel like you're the type of person to point out every litter thing you don't like in a manhwa if you didn't really liked it. That's all.

    TachibanaChiharu June 10, 2021 5:26 am
    I know this was made months ago but you're literally comparing it to a whole different manhwa. Like, so what if they feel alike to read? Did they copy each other? The Authors did not even KNEW each other. Also,... Alternative_Account

    I have no idea where you get the idea that all of the points I made were related to my random offhand mention that this comic shares some premise similarities to Penthouse XXX. 97% of my topic was me evaluating this comic on its own merits or lack thereof, irrespective of Penthouse XXX, so your paragraph of anger over this is baffling.

    Me saying Penthouse XXX is better at the end is just me bringing the post full-circle with a point I made at the beginning. Penthouse XXX isn't amazing either, but I found it to be better than this. It's also dumb to say you can't compare two similar comics, like, what, a person can't compare anything ever, then? Yes, you absolutely can compare them.

    I'm just gonna chalk this up to yet another person getting angry in their own head after not actually reading my post. I generally try to give credit where credit is due, even for stories I didn't like, which would've been obvious to anyone who actually read the whole topic. ╮( ̄▽ ̄)╭

    TachibanaChiharu June 10, 2021 5:35 am
    u need a job cause all u do is write long ass reviews on mangas u don’t like that no one asked for . senamay

    I do have a job, and it doesn't actually take me all that long to write a 20-paragraph post once every couple of weeks. Also, I write reviews on both comics I like and comics I dislike. Would you like me to post a link to a topic I made on a comic I did like? Also, this is an open platform for people to post their opinions on any comic they want, whether or not it is positive or negative/critical, and whether or not other people will like it. It doesn't really matter if other people agree or not. The point is that some people actually want to know what they're about to read before they read it to decide whether or not they should actually read it, and that is the point of writing reviews for things. Sorry you liked a comic I didn't; I'm sure there are comics I loved that you don't like as well. I'm not going to get bent over it, though.