If you're not into S&M...

I haven't read this manga yet, and I think your comment is really true. Do you think this manga does a good job portraying a BDSM relationship? I feel like a lot of stories ignore the nuances and misrepresent S&M.

This manga does a LITTLE BETTER than most, but of course the subtleties can be lost in translation and even in the original editing. This story contains some piercing and it's done well between the couple, but since the seme is a Dr. he also does it to another uke (the partner of a friend). There are some ambiguous things said that leads the Dr's uke to believe he is cheating. This scene leads to a "defining" moment for the couple (Dr. and his uke). That defining moment seems to confuse a lot of readers who are not familiar with the world of "real" S&M. So, by that, I would conclude that this manga gets closer to "real life" than others in this genre.

That said, I found the story appealing and entertaining. However, the best depiction, by far, of "real" S&M would be "Hoshi no Yakata" by Tori Maia. Nothing in the yaoi genre can compare to this manga for realism in the realm of S&M (not talking plot or characters - strictly the depiction of S&M relationships and play). IMHO

Hope I helped. Feel free to mail me here if you have any other questions or if you just want to chat.

I failed to reply to the second part of your comment. I'm sorry. I also feel that a lot (most) stories in yaoi fail to really capture the delicacies of both S&M and B&D. Most "S&M" depictions could barely pass as MILD B&D play for anyone familiar with this "lifestyle", and yet others go too far and depict cruel and inhuman torture. There just doesn't seem to be a definitive balance in this genre. Then again, a lot of readers don't understand the idea that, what is commonly defined as "rape" in this genre, is also a form of B&D known as "forced intercourse play" or "rape play". Wherein, the dominant partner uses mild force to push or pin down the passive partner, while the passive partner can either "give in" or attempts to "fight back". Depending on the dominant partner's strength and how much they are turned on by the "fight", the passive partner will increase or decrease their level of refusal. In the end, both partners are aroused and sex can be incredibly hot. This is obviously not a game to play with a stranger or even with a partner that is unaware that this game is being played. In yaoi, as in real life, sex between two men can be quite rough and indelicate. Most men are competitive, dominating and tough by nature (even the ukes - hence the tsundere uke). Therefore, seeing this type of "forced intercourse play" among men should not be so unexpected or misunderstood. Leading to my conclusion that, the subtle nuances of B&D (let alone S&M) are missed, not only by the readers, but also by the mangakas.

Sorry for what seems to be a rant. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

Thanks! I think that's the central issue that is often obfuscated. To my understanding, for something to be considered true BDSM, it has to be consensual at the most basic level. After reading this manga, I felt that aspect was well portrayed.

Of the over 400 yaoi that I've read, approximately 3-4 instances have occurred where I've said "Yeah, no, that was rape...for sure." In cases of BDSM in yaoi most of the time there is initial refusal followed by arousal and implied consent. That is NOT ALWAYS the case...but is for the vast majority. Usually, the manga will be tagged with S&M and have a "little tie up" or blindfolding, but that's about it. Leaving me, personally, rather disappointed.

To say that BDSM REQUIRES consent may be a bit naive (not that you are - just the idea). To perform BDSM properly, so that all parties involved feel pleasure and satisfaction, absolutely - consent is required. Not everyone involved in this "lifestyle" adhere to this, unfortunately. Some even "get off" on the fear of an unwilling partner. I recommend steering far clear of this type of person. Trust is paramount in a "healthy" BDSM relationship, for those "unhealthy" souls, steer clear - unless you are into that kind of thing.

Crap, I keep replying to my own comments! I'm sorry, please see my reply elsewhere on this page. #－.－)

I agree with everything you said but i was just wondering are you into it or you just find it interesting as well as i do? (sorry to be so blunt lol). The manga wasn't bad though, one of the better BDSM ones i seen, even though it didn't grasp the reality of such situation

Although my master and I are no longer partners, I am still active in my local BDSM community. I am both a sadist and a defiant masochist. I enjoy inflicting or receiving pain, depending on my partner. IOW I can give as good as I get and I put up a fight when I am getting it. This means my partner (sadist) must enjoy the thrill of the refusal and overpowering their "prey".

I found this manga to be a highly romanticized version of BDSM, but still closer to "the real thing" than most can claim.

Defiant masochist...now that would certainly be an interesting manga with that theme haha. I read alot about that lifestyle (since no one around me is into it) and it fascinates me tbh so i do understand your feelings (although not quite) but thanks for the honest reply, I appreciate it.

Yaoi novel Taming Riki is closest to BDSM in my point of view...but it's kinda long and can get rapey

I'll have to check that manga out. Thanks. If you ever have any other questions on this, please feel free to contact me. Fiction can fill in some information, but there's nothing like having a friend to talk to about the real thing. (⌒▽⌒)

LOL Welcome to the "club"!!

Seeing as people are still replying can I ask you a personal question? If you dont want to answer feel free to ignore this.

Anyway, how did you find out that youre masochistic/sadistic? Im pretty curious about BDSM in general, i might have "some" tendencies but I cant say for sure if im that type or this type or if I'm plain normal, because all the info i get are based online, i cant really compare myself to others cause I dont know anyone who's into this, so its been confusing for me. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

I'd be happy to share my experiences and help in any way I can. I was introduced to BDSM when I was 17. My boyfriend had lots of B&D fantasies and I agreed to play along. As we progressed in our play, he found other people who also were into BDSM and we went to parties to meet new "like minded" friends. Eventually, we attended a convention of BDSM participants. It was through these contacts that I was introduced to all the ins and outs of BDSM. Trying on different roles with people I trusted, helped me find the place that felt most comfortable for me. I am a defiant masochist. This means that, although I am in a submissive role, I do not just blindly obey. The "punishment" is my goal - I enjoy the pain - so by defying my Dom I am "rewarded". It takes a patient and kind person to be a DM's Dom. They also have to enjoy being a bit cruel without going overboard and it helps if they are aroused by the "fight" that I put up. This kind of play is not for just anybody. It actually takes a lot of self control, on both players parts, to make the game safe and fun.
I suggest starting out slow. Try B&D first. A little bondage with gentle discipline. Discipline is not always a violent act, either. No kissing for the next 30 minutes of foreplay can be a punishment for a person who loves kissing. I will tease and give loving attention to every part of your body, except the part that you enjoy most... coming close to touching it, but never quite doing so until you beg for it... also a great "gentle punishment". Play both roles and see which one appeals to you more. Or you can do what I do and switch roles all the time. I am a defiant masochist with men and a sadist or Dom with women. If you are not big, you can simply play one role in one encounter and the opposite role in the next encounter.
The most important advice I will ever give you is this: NEVER perform BDSM games with a stranger or anyone that you wouldn't trust with your life. BDSM can be very dangerous and can be used as an excuse for violent people to hurt you. BDSM is a relationship that requires the highest levels of trust. Without it, it can become abuse. Play with care.
If you have any other questions please feel free to contact me here, in mail.

Being both a masochist and a sadist is not uncommon. Might I recommend seeking a BDSM group in your area to help you find the perfect partner for your future endeavors. Best of luck and happiness to you.