Fruit Connoisseur's Topics (457)

After reading the comment threads i rather choose shotgun to use it on myself, than popcorn ┑(￣Д ￣)┍
To be true, it's nothing new from few months, only this same threads and arguing.

Yo it's popcorn cyanide (if u catch my drift ;9)

Nah i got tired of being annoyed and entertain myself by reading them, all the while thanked god that im not that obsessed. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

Can you treat me with this? (=・ω・=)

Except he did ... Bum killed that girl in Sangwoo's basement.
And pretty much is accomplice on his uncle death too since he saw it and didn't report it. Bum had been able to leave the house by himself for a while by then.
He made a choice to stay with Sangwoo after he had a chance to escape because he wanted a life with Sangwoo. Bum may not be as psycho as Sangwoo but this only makes his action even worse because he was selfish. He loved Sangwoo and still wanted to fulfill his dream of a love story with him and it didn't matter if that meant to let a dangerous psycho free, so be it.

Bum tried to escape several times before Jieun's Death and wasn't able to because either his legs were still crippled or nobody believed him when he said he was kidnapped.
As for the uncle, Sangwoo was the one who called him with Bum's phone without him knowing and sicced him on Bum. Calling Bum a accomplice for his Uncle's death is bs because Bum never wanted him dead and then had a panic attack when he was left alone by Sangwoo with the Uncle's corpse.
And when he had a chance to "escape"(I'm guessing you mean when he went outside and met his old crush), Sangwoo wasn't abusive at that time, so Bum believed that Sangwoo changed. And saying that it didn't matter to him if someone like Sangwoo is free is also not all that right when Bum literally told people that he was kidnapped and nobody believed him. It's all a case of Stockholm Syndrome.

I think my point is that there is a double standard for Bum and Sangwoo. So Bum was not acting normal because of Stockholm Syndrome and must get a pass and be pitied but Sangwoo did all the crazy things under a complete sharp and sane mind and thus be held accountable?
If Bum's defense is inability to take lawful decision because he is suffering from SS, why Sangwoo actions are not taken under the same consideration based on what we know of his upbringing? His crimes were more severe because his psychosis and mental debilitation was also way more severe.
Bum's is accomplice of Sangwoo and also a killer of the girl. Bum started as a prisoner but then he had freedom to get out of the house. As you said yourself, the reason he didn't report Sangwoo is because Sangwoo was not mistreating him anymore. So, who is Bum thinking about? The victim? The victim's family? Sangwoo's abuse of Bum stopped way before he killed the uncle so Bum knew very well he hadn't changed at all. So as long as Sangwoo didn't abuse him, Bum would cover for him.
Bum's motivation was his desire to stay with his lover. Bum started this story as a stalker who broke into Sangwoo's house. His mental illness was there before Sangwoo.
Bum didn't participate in his uncle's killing but again he helped covered up ( and this was after Sangwoo had 'changed' . And Sangwoo killed the mother and son in the resort too). Bum may not have been a killer like Sangwoo but he sure was okay letting Sangwoo get away with all as long as he and Sangwoo were a couple.
So Bum is accomplice of Sangwoo and accountable for his part of it.
Now, when I say that Bum and Sangwoo are treated with double standard is because in reality both characters actions are result of mental instability. I do excuse Bum acting irrationally and incapable of doing what is right because of Stockholm Syndrome ( let's not forget that even before Sangwoo, Bum was already doing something that is also psychotic like stalking someone to the point of breaking into his house so Bum has already a mental instability that was not caused by Sangwoo). If I give Bum leniency for his crimes because he was mentally unstable, then Sangwoo should have the same leniency given the amount of psychosis he had.
Things being fair, Bum and Sangwoo both were doing things that made sense only in their twisted logic. I pitied both Bum and Sangwoo just as I assign both characters the crimes they committed under their psychosis.

I see your point. But here's the thing. Sangwoo himself is the cause for Bum's Stockholm Syndrome. We know that Bum suffers from BPD and Stockholm Syndrome, but we don't know what Sangwoo's mental illnesses are. I would have agreed with you that Sangwoo's psychosis is at fault if his kills are like how Bum had a psychosis with Jieun. But that's not the case. Sangwoo specifically chose his victims. Tricked them into coming with him. Kidnapped them. Abused them. Killed them. And then Mutilated their bodies, feeling no remorse. He knows who the victims he killed are. He just didn't care. The CEO Daughter being arrogant was enough reason for Sangwoo to kill her. He also abused, manipulated and raped Bum.

Bum had freedom to leave the house AFTER her death. He tried plenty of times to escape, even at same day before Jieun's death when he told people that he was kidnapped. Sangwoo knew that, that's why he planned Jieun's Death so Bum is not able to run away anymore. Sangwoo's abuse didn't stop before the Uncle's death, he raped him once in the Honeymoon phase. The only reason why Bum covered Sangwoo when Seungbae found him in the closet is because Bum felt guilty. It had nothing to do with Sangwoo at that point. If Jieun's Death never happend then Bum would told Seungbae everything.
Bum was indeed obsessed with Sangwoo, but was willing to try to escape, tried to poison him once to escape, told people that he was kidnapped, etc. The Stockholm Syndrome only got worse then.
He didn't help covering up the Uncle's Death and considering how Bum had a hallucination of seeing the Uncle before closing the closet, he might think that his Uncle still alive.
He also doesn't know that Sangwoo killed the Mother&Child since Sangwoo never told him that.
So he isn't fine with Sangwoo killing people.
Bum is imo not a accomplice, at least not willingly. Otherwise he wouldn't have saved Seungbae or tried stopping Sangwoo from killing his uncle.
Bum's Stalking isn't really just because of his Mental Illness, it's also by a lack of education. Nobody teached him anything when he was young. We saw him holding a spoon in the wrong way twice(High School Flashback and Chapter 26). As for Sangwoo, same thing as I said above.

" ... but we don't know what Sangwoo's mental illnesses are"
I think the author spent a great length of the story building up the explanation on why Sangwoo became the disturbed person that he is now. Then another great part showing up that he is at most of the time in a constant state of insanity. He is also shown to have hallucinations, the kind that shows that he is both paranoid and still completely damaged from what he went through growing up. It's not a coincidence that when Sangwoo is abusing Bum, he dressing him up as his mother (see how Bum is back to the old mom doll get up) . So I really can't go with the logic that Bum's actions can be explained by somebody's else influence ( Sangwoo) and the circumstance he is in but deny the same explanation to Sangwoo that got even more background history about how unstable he is.
Since Bum came in Sangwoo's life, the author added several instances where he mix his memories of his mom with Bum. So we do know that he is insane to a very high degree. We saw his past, we saw his transformation. So how come we can clearly point out that Bum is acting the way he is because of Sangwoo but we 'don't know' what makes Sangwoo do what he does?
Again, to my point, a double standard of making one of them a victim justified by what other person did to him or how much he is influenced by someone;s else but denying the other the same treatment to the other.
Sangwoo to me is also a victim and someone whose judgement is totally based on his psychosis, his behavior probably a mixture of nature (if his mother was schizophrenic, he probably is at risk too) and nurture (the festering family environment he grew up with).
It doesn't mean he shouldn't be locked up or held accountable for his actions. I feel the same for Bum. Bum could have gone to the police or simply left many times in all the times Sangwoo let him by himself. If he didn't because he was under a mental disorder, why Sangwoo's actions cannot be excused with the same logic? Because his psychosis is worst and more dangerous ? It doesn't make the reasoning any more coherent.
I understand the idea to pity Bum more because he is also a victim of Sangwoo but the biggest the trauma and damage, the worst the result and that's why I can't explain Bum's actions as purely result of his victimhood while not giving the same measure of justice to Sangwoo. The author wrote a lot of information about Sangwoo's childhood and young adolescence background for me to discard him as purely evil and judge him anymore responsible for his actions that Bum is for his own part. Every time that Bum went outside and didn't go to the police but came back and kept living with Sangwoo was Bum covering up and enabling Sangwoo. Discard Bum as someone who did not make choices here that were wrong is not correct. And if Bum is not accountable for his choices because he is mentally unstable, so we must assign the same logic to Sangwoo, right?
If they ever got to be judged in a court of law, a psychiatrist could easily diagnose Sangwoo as someone that should be locked in a psychiatric yard rather than regular prison. He would be a classic case of 'Insanity defense' .
In any case, I think we can just agree to disagree. I understand most see Bum as simple victim and not accountable and Sangwoo nothing more that a cold killer. I enjoyed the discussion nevertheless. I'm sorry if I came across as confrontational. I suppose we all get passionate defending our views. It was good talking to you. :)

You can't just keep saying that. He was clearly in a calm state of mind when he tricked the old man for example into coming with him, playing games with him and Bum and then killed him. Again, I would have agreed with you if his kills are similiar to the one of Jieun. But they're not. Not even the one where he choked the mother. He knows what he does to his victims is wrong, he isn't paranoid or has a hallucination of his mother in them. Several Serial Killers irl had mother issues, but they were able to tell their victim apart from their mom, the victim just having a trait of their mom was enough reason for them to do horrendous things to their victims and then kill them while not feeling remorse. Same goes to Sangwoo. He also kills men with no problem. It has nothing to do with his Mother Issues.
He abused Bum several times while he wasn't dressed as Sangwoo's mother.
"So how come we can clearly point out that Bum is acting the way he is because of Sangwoo but we 'don't know' what makes Sangwoo do what he does?" Because Stockholm Syndrome is easy to point out when a victim still loves their Abuser after everything they did to them while Sangwoo has a sad past, yes, but takes his anger out on others, knows what he does is wrong, abused and raped Bum while not being paranoid, but using him like a toy where he can take his anger out. Sounds familiar? Bum's uncle also saw Bum's mother in Bum. Does that excuse anything he did to him? No. And Sangwoo is no different.
"Again, to my point, a double standard of making one of them a victim justified by what other person did to him or how much he is influenced by someone;s else but denying the other the same treatment to the other." I'm not denying that. Sangwoo has just done too many things in the ceimes while not being paranoid or having a hallucination. Him raping Bum after the police station is a perfect example.
"Sangwoo to me is also a victim and someone whose judgement is totally based on his psychosis, his behavior probably a mixture of nature (if his mother was schizophrenic, he probably is at risk too) and nurture (the festering family environment he grew up with)."
It's fine if you think like that, I just think that his judgement wasn't solely based on his psychosis and his behavior was normal as a child so I don't think it has anything to do with his mother being schizophrenic at all.
"It doesn't mean he shouldn't be locked up or held accountable for his actions. I feel the same for Bum. Bum could have gone to the police or simply left many times in all the times Sangwoo let him by himself. If he didn't because he was under a mental disorder, why Sangwoo's actions cannot be excused with the same logic? Because his psychosis is worst and more dangerous ? It doesn't make the reasoning any more coherent."
Bum is a sensitive, anxious individual who got told that everything is his fault, so of course he also feels guilty about Jieun. He's afraid of the police, shown during the rape scene when he told Sangwoo that the police is scary and Sangwoo said he's scarier. All Bum could do during the abuse was enduring it. If Jieun's Death never happend then Bum would have already escaped by now.
"I understand the idea to pity Bum more because he is also a victim of Sangwoo but the biggest the trauma and damage, the worst the result and that's why I can't explain Bum's actions as purely result of his victimhood while not giving the same measure of justice to Sangwoo" Again, we were told at the beginning that Bum has BPD and he got Stockholm Syndrome after being forced to stay with him. Sangwoo has problems, but he knows what he does is wrong, he is not having hallucinations of his mother while seeing his victims. If that were the case, then he would have outright killed his victims outside due to a blackout, psychosis attack like Bum with Jieun. But that wasn't the case. Sangwoo can kill men as well, he just prefers women as his victims, he joked to Bum about how he killed the CEO Daughter or how he would like to jab someone's head with a metal rod. Sangwoo is aware that it's not his mom, he's aware that his victims are innocent people. He does not care however.
"The author wrote a lot of information about Sangwoo's childhood and young adolescence background for me to discard him as purely evil and judge him anymore responsible for his actions that Bum is for his own part. Every time that Bum went outside and didn't go to the police but came back and kept living with Sangwoo was Bum covering up and enabling Sangwoo. Discard Bum as someone who did not make choices here that were wrong is not correct. And if Bum is not accountable for his choices because he is mentally unstable, so we must assign the same logic to Sangwoo, right?"
I never said he's purely evil, nobody is after all. He is however way more responsible for his actions than Bum because almost none of his crimes are because of his psychosis, in fact, the only one I can think of is when he killed the Mother&Child and he even then knew that they're different people and not his mom.
Bum wasn't covering up, he is afraid of Sangwoo giving him the fault for Jieun, Sangwoo blamed him after her death so Bum became scared of the police and Sangwoo used that to abuse him more since he wouldn't dare to run away anymore.
Yes Sangwoo is mentally ill, but so are Serial Killers who ended up on prison. They were clearly mentally ill, but they knew what they did was wrong. So does Sangwoo. Psychopaths/Sociopaths are capable of that.
"In any case, I think we can just agree to disagree. I understand most see Bum as simple victim and not accountable and Sangwoo nothing more that a cold killer. I enjoyed the discussion nevertheless. I'm sorry if I came across as confrontational. I suppose we all get passionate defending our views. It was good talking to you. :)"
I don't see Sangwoo like that, I understand that he is more complex than that.
It's fine, I liked discussing this with you. See you around ;).

I mean he didn't end up killing sangwoo or seungbae, it be too sad for me, sorry i guess i was too vague.

Is this a jojo reference

That would be lovely. I don't like threesome, that i would prefer that it be only beetwean Ein and Yanek. But seeing them both together and seeing how they interact in sistuation like this.... hmmmm.....(▰˘◡˘▰)

I'm curious who would control who...

I don't want that. The thought is gross to me tbh. (●￣(ｴ)￣●)

I have opposite feelings, since I really prefer relatioship beetwean two mature and strong man. Diesel is kind of submissive towards their partners and you know how it will look his intimacy no metter that Yanek or Ein is his partner. But Ein and Yanek together would be something interesting. Someone findly must be change his usaual role and cuase both have stong and alpha character it would be probably something unique and passionate.

Lets pair Ein with Yanek and not tell anything to Diesel. (He can take a vacation in Hawaii with Odin)

OHOHOHOHOHOHO yes

It's cool, it's only my opinion and fantasy

Aaaaaaa Yanek/Ein seems intriguing.... and definitely hot hahaha

Honestly it's Diesel's fault for looking so sexy in this chapter that I want to throw Ein to the mix (≧∀≦)

We can make fundrasing on Diesel ticket to Hawai and let magic happens beetwean Yanek and Ein (▰˘◡˘▰)

I kick in ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶

it says completed.. :(

I mean in a new series or something