Keeler12's Topics (104)

I'm guessing he is the other brother Anri's dad was talking about in the previous chapter.

Maybe he's half human half superhuman?

Im thinking maybe he is full superhuman but by some reason Anri's dad erased his memory or he lost his memory. its sad that this uploads so slow.

Yeah but then again he's not reliant to red veil. I don't think erasing his memory would affect his need for that. Plus, skills-wise he's not superhuman (remember that chapter when he was told to jump by an aristocrat girl?) even though he is well-built although his survival capabilities (e.g. healing time and hardiness) are above the average human.

You're right, maybe he is half and half. I really just wanna see what that has to do with Anri. I cant WAIT for this to update!

It's not about you.You are missing the point.
Besides the only one who has been excusing and tolerating Jiwon so far had only been DG...

Meant to downvote because i agree with this^

Omg Fruit's returns!

I can't help it when I read ignorant comments like yours.

Is Fruit relevant?

She thinks she is ╮(￣▽￣)╭

That wasn't an intentional setup, i was just curious and didn't know how better to word that.

I'd have to see how you guys started fighting before i decide if both or one of you are being immature. From my perspective, it looks like you, Munsault, just came in here starting shit on someone else's topic for no reason, but maybe there's a bad past here?

It's just that I'm the minority here that I never embraced the opinion that DG is a "sweet innocent cinnamon roll and angel etc who did nothing wrong" while Jiwon is this "despicable jerk asshole who deserves to suffer and beg precious DG to be with him".
Overall I don't see many fails or Jiwon having done anything wrong within this story except maybe 2 or 3 times he kinda lost control and physically hurt DG during sex.
For those incidents I think Jiwon has repented already.Besides it was DG who tolerated everything and he wasn't honest with Jiwon and didn't express any discomfort or objection.
Instead he just used Jiwon's misbehavior to his advantage forcing him on a date.
DG had agreed to everything condition Jiwon set in order to be sex partners yet he suddenly demanded things from him in the worst way possible and asked him to consider "his feelings" suddenly.
I don't think it was a bad thing from Jiwon's part simply contacting DG only for sex or leaving him right after the sex was over or overall ignoring him.
I still don't think Jiwon owns anything to DG.It shouldn't be his problem that DG "caught feelings" and wanted more from him.

People just make a huge deal exaggerating about "how bad Jiwon is and how good DG is".
I often express my opinion whenever I see comments like "Jiwon asshole jerk suffer you don't deserve DG" and the new trend "I pity Jiwon" "I don't forgive him.His past is not an excuse" etc...

If Jiwon's past shouldn't be an excuse for his "bad behavior" then DG's lack of experience shouldn't be an excuse for making himself suffer and cause Jiwon problems either.

That is why some people here may have a problem or issues of any kind with me ╮(￣▽￣)╭

Also I have said that DG barely has any personality and he is written as a substitute of a female character in this series so I guess people don't really appreciate this opinion. of mine either...
But overall that's my stance.
Jiwon doesnt deserve any hate or pity or suffering or anything bad in general and DG doesn't deserve any praise and the kind of worshipping he has been receiving here.
I don't fight with anyone.When I engage in discussion with people I never insult anyone on a personal level.I don't call names etc.I just block people to avoid any future interaction if I understand that I make them uncomfortable.That's all.
However I once noticed people opened something like a "topic" about me here talking about me without my knowledge that was awkward and a bit scary but that's pretty much it.
I don't think "I'm relevant or irrelevant "
Simply someone with unpopular opinions that is an easy target for the majority to write off...
Thats my explanation.

I see, then while i don't necessarily agree with some of your opinions, i don't see why that'd have to start an argument. Munsault, is this why you came onto this person's topic and responded passive aggressively to Fruit when none of that was even mentioned? If so, you're the one in the wrong for getting so upset about Fruits's opinion that you started to hate them enough that you spot them posting on anything and leave passive aggressive jabs. If you disagree, say why and then leave it at that. Obviously, you can have a debate or conversation about it, but if someone gets angry you leave it.

Now, as far as your opinion on DG and Jiwon. I agree on these parts: I agree that people are too polar on right and wrong. I also agree that DG has been written to be effeminate in the sense that he's very emotional and passive. The part i disagree on is the notion that Jiwon is not at all responsible for the situation as well. Yes, the deal was that they were going in as sex friends, but the argument you're missing in your response above is that Jiwon broke their agreement too by giving DG false hope. He got visibly jealous over DG (and DG notices) and he took him on a date. In your response above, your argument was basically "well DG caught feelings on his own", which to be frank, isn't the case. Yes, he started out with feelings, but Jiwon fanned the flames. He even says himself that he's been too close to DG lately, that's why he starts ignoring him when they go on that trip. That's another thing some of the people with your opinion don't take into account, the drunk scene happened because Jiwon went from hot to cold in an instant. He spent all that time with DG and then started ignoring him, so he was stressed, got drunk and barged in on the show. He also never treated DG as an equal, he treats DG as more of a sex sleeve rather than sex friend initially, i don't think anyone can argue that. He didn't even ask DG to be his sex friend, he gave DG the ultimatum to either be his sex friend or he'll find someone else and they'll never talk again. He tells DG not to talk to him at all (ironic, guess they don't talk either way?), he's just rude in general in all of his interactions with DG and he really just has sex with him however he wants. It's not about DG at all, the sex is only for Jiwon to relieve himself. As you yourself admitted, he hurts DG during sex.

It's my personal belief, and i feel this is pretty evident tbh, that Jiwon was just a plain asshole up until now. I'd even state that as a fact because, while whether or not someone is being an asshole is subjective, if it's ALL they're being then they're just an asshole and there isn't a person here who can point out an instance in this story where Jiwon treats DG okay aside from the date. The date only happened because he brutally raped DG before that. I think that was the point, as now it's showing WHY he acts the way he does. He was purposely portrayed as an asshole so we'd look back and think "oh, that's why" when the plot revealed his past. Now he realizes he has feelings.

Fair enough but I again disagree with some points and honestly personally I don't even understand how people even take this into consideration in the first place.
What I'm talking about is "Jiwon gave DG false hope"...
I don't think he did at all.Not did they ever spend any quality time together.They have never once truly communicated and that's mostly DG's fault because he is the only one who wants more supposedly.
Rape should not be something people consider as "jealousy" or an indication that someone"has feelings".I mean who in their right state of mind would think that rape is interest and possibly even love?
DG has some serious issues thinking like that.
Rape is only about dominance nothing more nothing less.And that should be clear even in yaoi.
As for the other time it was just Jiwon being drunk and he became vulnerable for a while until he get again had his way with DG and he wasn't gentle or nice at all I don't really see why DG is getting that from at all.
But in conclusion Jiwon's drunken state and behavior shouldn't mean anything especially since MD spoke with DG and told him that Jiwon had done the same exact thing to him (minus the sex) once when he got drunk and MD also took care of Jiwon.

If Jiwon's overall behavior towards DG makes him "an asshole" again I don't see a reason for him to be hated so much but still DG is to blame too because he tolerated everything and he wasn't honest and open since the beginning and he chose to stay nevertheless.
While he had plenty of chances to be honest or leave.
Besides Jiwon had told him that he shouldn't even expect anything basic not even him being nice to DG.

So, i'd like to clear something up as a lot of what you said was based on a misunderstanding, when i said he gets jealous i wasn't talking about the rape. The rape is an unfortunate result OF the jealousy, he was jealous because DG started talking to MD. It was a whole thing, i'm sure you remember. Now, you had said "they didn't really spend any meaningful time together", to this i have to say that i disagree and will cite pages showing that both DG AND Jiwon found the date meaningful below as well.

Here is Jiwon being jealous:

1. http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/bj_alex/uu/bj_alex-chapter-24/3/

2. http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/bj_alex/uu/bj_alex-chapter-25/9/

3. http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/bj_alex/uu/bj_alex-chapter-25/11/

DG noticing Jiwon was jealous: http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/bj_alex/uu/bj_alex-chapter-30/6/

Jiwon realizing he's feeling jealousy towards MD and DG, but not knowing what the feeling really is: http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/bj_alex/uu/bj_alex-chapter-28/7/

Evidence that DG is happy about the date (this one's easy, lol):

1. http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/bj_alex/uu/bj_alex-chapter-27/13/

2. http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/bj_alex/uu/bj_alex-chapter-28/2/

(more importantly)-Evidence that Jiwon liked the date, he started out bitchy, but:

1. http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/bj_alex/uu/bj_alex-chapter-29/3/

2. http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/bj_alex/uu/bj_alex-chapter-29/5/

3. And this one's really important as it shows Jiwon look back on the date fondly now that he's acknowledging his feelings after the breakup: http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/bj_alex/uu/bj_alex-chapter-41/9/

As you can see above, there is plenty of reason as to why DG would've mistaken Jiwon's jealousy for progress. Hell, he DIDN'T mistake it, it WAS progress as displayed above.

Edit: Jiwon's jealousy and the date** for progress

Oh, i wanted to respond to one more part of this^ as well, you had said "Besides, Jiwon had told him that he shouldn't even expect anything basic, not even him being nice to DG". I'm confused about this because, in this part, you were responding to me pointing out that Jiwon's behavior towards DG since the beginning makes him an asshole. So are you saying here that, because Jiwon told him in advance that he's going to be an asshole that he's no longer liable for his asshole tendencies? If so, i don't follow that logic. By that same logic, i can do whatever i want to you as long as i tell you i'm going to do it first. Treating others as actual people is basic manners, i believe that him refusing to do so and even acknowledging that he isn't going to do so just further solidifies that he's an asshole, it doesn't justify his behavior or make it DG's fault for expecting basic manners as you're suggesting. I think that's how that works? Let me give an easier example to understand: if i go to your house and you refuse to let me sit for no reason other than that you don't want me to, that makes you an asshole, yes? I'M not at fault for expecting that you'd let me sit as that is usually the norm. COULD i leave? Yes, but i wouldn't have to consider leaving if you weren't being an asshole and refusing to let me sit. See what i mean?

I guess you see this story from a different point of view than mine.Yours its more emotional while mine is more based on practical things and logic...
So most of your "proof" is just based on personal opinion and interpretation which are totally subjective (like mine) its not a bad thing though and can easily be debunked.

1)Still there is plenty of room for different interpretation of this.
Is Jiwon really jealous towards DG as a sexual partner or only because Jiwon has gained so many views and stories for his show and doesn't want to lose the source of that which is DG to MD for clearly selfish reasons mostly based on business and on the fact that Jiwon is insecure.
If this in your opinion shows jealousy on a "romantic level" then with the same logic we could say that Jiwon may as well be into MD?
Because if you remember he did behave to MD in a similar way he did to DG a long time ago and despite the tantrum Jiwon had denying anything to do with MD in the end he sounded kinda disappointed when he said that MD is not into guys like himself anyways.
2)"Proof that he only cares about the broadcast thingy.On another note this scene is important not only bc the abuse ocurred but also bc it proofs that DG still only sees Jiwon as Alex and he is only into Alex and the sex.
His biggest fantasy was to fuck Alex as a simple viewer and DG even asked Jiwon to put on the Alex mask...
3)Yeah Jiwon is thinking about other BJ's stealing his no.1 spot sex toy so?
Besides no matter what caused the rape one doesn't just do that to a person they like.Dominance possessiveness aren't necessarily proof of interest or love.

Same goes with DG assuming that Jiwon is jealous.But again the answer is not clear.It could still only be that Jiwon only acted like that bc of the work aspect and not the "romantic" one.
Despite DG fanboying hard over the fact that he got raped "because Jiwon is jealous of me thus he loves me".
I don't see any evidence here.Just DG 's messed up way of thinking and Jiwon's mistakes.

Yes Jiwon is confused but again that is not a massive proof either.It could simply be bc so far he hasn't felt competition in his job.

OK DG's being super girly over a date that was a result of guilt tripping was rather cringe.
As for Jiwon enjoying the date it could simply better that yet again he got another validation that he is the best.

Overall I'm not convinced about "love" truly being the case from either side...
DG doesn't really love Jiwon and Jiwon doesn't love DG either imo at least not yet.
The author needs to do a lot more to convince me personally.

Anyways all your "proof" are not really "proof" as i said in the beginning everyone can interpret things differently.

Well, DG's not completely free of fault. He DID make the decision to stay with a person who was only in it for the sex. However, the way that Jiwon treated him is a tad bit too overboard, which is why I'm not on his side.

Yes, this^ is about where i'm at.

I'll respond going down your response.

1. This entire section is easily rebuttalled by simply pointing out the difference in outcomes between the relationships between Jiwon and DG and Jiwon and MD. You can see that the jealousy is of a romantic nature because, while he had a similar situation with MD when he got drunk, he never had sex with him and has shown no indication of growing feelings for MD. Jiwon has sex with DG out of anger rather than simply dropping him. He's angry when he thinks MD changed DG sexually. There is sexual context between Jiwon and DG, but not Jiwon and MD. Furthermore, Jiwon has actually admitted he loves DG in recent chapters. Whether or not the jealousy was romantic is no longer speculation, it's canon now. I wouldn't even say that the idea that Jiwon was jealous over business and sales is even based in any facts. I never saw anything implying that.

2. As far as DG only seeing Jiwon as Alex, if you look within that same scene, he says that he asked Jiwon to wear the Alex mask "because it's a fantasy of mine". I don't see how that proves DG only views Jiwon as Alex. Here, let me point out this scene where DG sees Jiwon at his worst and still likes him, Jiwon even comments about how DG saw him drunk off his ass and still likes him: http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/bj_alex/uu/bj_alex-chapter-35/7/

3. I had already cleared this misunderstanding, but it wasn't the rape i was providing as proof of his love for DG, it was his jealousy at the thought of MD touching DG. The rape was just a result of said jealousy.

It's not a matter of speculation or opinion that his jealousy was romantic, he has admitted that he's in love with DG in recent chapters and there was never really anything indicating that the jealousy was over anything else as i pointed out earlier. What specifically made you think sales and business? The story was pretty explicitly building up to romance.

You keep mentioning business, but there is nothing implying he was jealous over business and sales, everything points towards that he was jealous over DG and now that has been confirmed in recent chapters.

You seem really harsh in what you said in this segment about DG, i see some bias here. As far as Jiwon "maybe having just been happy he was best at something", that is disproven by the 3rd page i'd cited where it shows Jiwon think back on the date fondly. He literally says "the arcade was fun". This is another case where it isn't a matter of speculation, he had fun.

Only some of my proof was interpretation, most of what i brought forward was factual, not sure what you mean about my argument being feelings and interpretation. Look above, all i had to do was point out things i'd said last response to counter this one because most of what i'd said isn't speculation. I made sure to point out everything that isn't speculation.

TLDR: The entirety of your last response is built upon the argument that his jealousy didn't necessarily have to be romantic, but it has been confirmed that it was romantic as Jiwon himself has admitted he loves DG and is currently trying to get him back. There was never really any evidence or even implications that he was jealous because of business and sales, which is the core of your argument, it's in everything you wrote. You based your argument around something no longer up to speculation that didn't have any factual backing as there is nothing indicating Jiwon's jealousy wasn't of a romantic nature.

I disagree completely about love being explicit but since you think I'm biased in any way I won't argue any further since it seems rather pointless but just a little sth.
I'm pretty sure that the drunk Jiwon was very much down for sex with MD and it would had happened the only reason why it didn't happen was because compared to MD DG is not capable of refusing or handling Jiwon any further.
Also DG is clearly into Jiwon while MD wasn't since Jiwon ain't his type.

Still I think your arguments are based on interpretation and I see that they will end up together but still even if they become canon the author needs to further build their relationship because so far they have nothing.

The reason of my response this time focused on sth different.
Whether some people are "on Jiwon's side" or "DG's side" that's kinda unfair especially because Jiwon is a way more a better fleshed out character than DG but also because picking sides ain't the best way to approach this story?
Just bc Jiwon probably did a few mistakes that doesn't make him an asshole in general and he deserves support as well in order to get better from everything he has been through I don't understand the "I'm not on his side" thing.
So what DG is not the only one who matters in this story and if Jiwon tries and finally gets better he needs to do it for himself first and not just because DG "deserves the man of his dreams and a happy ending"...

Oh i actually agree with you there, Jiwon definitely DOES deserve support for his past. I think you're misunderstanding something, when people say they're "not on Jiwon's side", they're SPECIFICALLY talking about the way he's treated DG. They're saying, "no, it isn't DG's fault that he has had to handle this abuse". Remember that example i gave earlier about you not letting me sit within your home? That applies here as well, DG not leaving doesn't make this his fault as the matter of leaving wouldn't have to even be brought up if Jiwon treated him like a human rather than a sex sleeve. They could just be normal sex friends and DG wouldn't have to leave, but he treats DG like shit and that's the only reason he SHOULD leave. To be clear, i'm not saying he should treat him nice, neutral would do, just not how he has been. As far as "Jiwon would've been down for sex with MD", all i can say is that that is just sheer speculation with no backing whatsoever. There is nothing implying Jiwon would be down to have sex with MD, hell, the exact opposite has been shown as Jiwon doesn't really seem to like him much. I'm not sure what makes you think Jiwon hit on him or that MD had to turn him down. Or even if he did hit on MD, i'm not sure what made you think it progressed to Jiwon trying to actually initiate sex. Drunk people do weird things, some sexual, but those sexual actions don't have to lead to sex because everyone around them understands that they're drunk.

MD did tell DG that Jiwon was rather affectionate when he got drunk and he was all over him and sweet talked him.And everything was really embarrassing.
Jiwon seemed rather disappointed when he thought that he is not MD's type and refused to talk any further with DG about it.

Also DG knew Jiwon was wasted and totally not himself.He shouldshouldn't had sex with him then.I'm not sure if that was completely consensual but DG definitely took advantage of Jiwon's drunken state and enjoyed himself some "affectionate" sex but I didn't see any affection.Only a drunk person having sex over and over again until he passed out...
In fact I think they might just be even on the "rape" thing...

Jiwon seems to be a flirty drunk, but why are you bringing this up? If you're trying to argue that Jiwon might have romantic feelings for MD, i don't think you'll find anyone who agrees with that particular theory as, as i pointed out earlier, Jiwon seems to dislike MD. Are you saying he doesn't dislike MD? He pretty explicitly does. As far as "DG shouldn't have had sex with him", Jiwon initiated it and DG got swept away. As far as whether or not the sex was affectionate or not, you're reading a yaoi... They're the two MCs and the seme is having sex with him out of jealousy... Maybe you didn't FEEL the affection, but that's clearly what the author was trying to portray. The story so far is that DG is slowly melting Jiwon's walls, you're supposed to take any small change in behavior as progress since he starts out as a walking fortress. You can say "that's just an interpretation", but that isn't an argument, everything is an interpretation and there is such a thing as likelihood of being the correct interpretation. As this is a romance bl about Jiwon and DG, it's safe to read those small moments that you perceive as nothing special as progress. I see you using the argument "that's just how you're interpreting it" a lot, so i wanted to go ahead and say this: anyone can argue anything is anything, but that doesn't change the fact that there is context around what the two of us are looking at and interpreting. This is a bl about Jiwon and DG, you're supposed to look at things through this lense, but you're throwing out random possibilities that aren't supported by the context or any of the dialogue to argue against the more clearly implied interpretation. I'll give an example: Look at our conversation. There is no reason to assume we aren't blood related, yes? So a possible interpretation of our conversation is "two brothers having a talk about the manga". The thing is, there is nothing either of us has said that implies we're related to each other. The more clearly implied interpretation here is that we're two strangers talking. You're the guy thinking we're related.

Lol OK but even if Jiwon "clearly dislikes" MD he sure treats him better than DG or at least in a similar way?
But anyways I didn't say Jiwon likes MD just that it's possible that he might be sexually attracted to him since he clearly finds him handsome and yes I assume that if MD hadn't stopped him Jiwon would have had sex with him.
Thats the difference DG has sex with a drunk person who is not responsible for his actions while MD didn't.Also DG took a intoxicated persons behavior for real...
DG clearly took advantage of Jiwons drunken state.
The next morning Jiwon felt kinda regretful and DG was embarrassed.

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I can't find it. Could you give me the link please?