remembrance's Topics (43)

Whilst I agree that they have both done things to be guilty of and that the emperor has no right to be fully victimised, the empress is still disgusting. Whilst she has some likeable characteristics, she is, without a doubt, a rapist and sexually exploited the emperor is a way that isn't comparable to what the emperor has done and cant simply be described as "selfishly harming someone to get what she wants". If their genders had be swapped, she would be considered irredeemable trash regardless of how likeable her personality is ┑(￣Д ￣)┍

not really. actually, if their genders were swapped the coercive rape would be less noticeable because that's just what every woman submitted to a political marriage went through. in fact, it was even worse for the women 'cause they would have no say in the deal, it would be discussed by her future husband and her father. the emperor at least got to discuss the terms of the agreement himself. political marriages involved not only signing papers but also performing your duty as a wife or husband. enoch is an actual good person so he didn't force juliet to do it when she didn't want to, but that wasn't the standard at the time. also, i've read many smut stories and the first time is usually not consensual lol but the girl falls in love with the guy all the same because despite "being forceful" he takes care of her in other ways. the empress does the same as those male leads. am i saying she's a good person? of course not, but most people at that time weren't. and most male leads aren't either

I'm not saying that the people in the story and that time period would have thought that way, I'm saying that we, as readers and people living in a time period where that is no longer socially acceptable, would see it as a man being disgusting trash. Now, we consider the ethics and actually hold regard for women as being a gender equal to men (or at least that's what most would like) so no, it would definitely be way more appalling to readers. Especially since this is a romance manhwa. No one with healthy views on relationships wants to read a romance between a couple like that even if that was considered the norm at the time. And yes, there are many smut manhwas that actually do this, and to me, that just fuels the narrative that women are always weak and forgiving towards men, thus making that kind of plot unenjoyable and something I would not read. So if the roles were reversed, I would definitely still think that a male lead that has done this is trash, and so the empress in this manhwa is just not an appealing character who's sins are equal to the emperor's

i was talking about a reader's perspective. my point is that there are examples of the same situation with the genders reversed in a bunch of manhwa. the differences are that the women in the emperor's situation usually didn't choose that situation, and yet they usually resist less than him, due to a sense of responsibility, survival instinct or "because deep down it feels good" and that the favors that the guy in the empress' situation does for the girl in the emperor's situation are presented in a flowery manner. they make the girl feel pleasantly surprised, relieved or warm inside. the reason why the empress and the emperor's relationship feels fucked up is because the authors don't romanticize it. they could very well write the emperor falling in love with the empress "despite her forceful nature" and even though most readers would still agree the empress is a cunt, it would still be appealing to many people, i assume. especially if the genders were reversed, as there are already many stories like that. part of why i find the empress' character really appealing is 'cause she's a typical toxic male lead, but because her actions aren't romanticized, she isn't treated as a love interest, she's treated as a villain. but she's also not really a villain 'cause she's on the main characters' side. she's more like a very reliable but also dangerous ally who could turn on them any time. she's just very interesting to watch!

honestly if the genders were reversed and the empress was a hot guy i'd also expect more comments saying the girl in the emperor's position should do her part, after all the guy in the empress' position only agreed to help her if she'd perform her duties as a wife

the emperor could be the most vile man on earth and he still shouldn’t have been raped. he has done some shit, but he is literally a victim because he’s been raped, by definition he’s the victim to her assaulting him. also “ empress doesn't mope around feeling sorry for herself and trying to escape the consequences” she is still with him and has made 0 efforts to resolve her raping him. she dosent gaf, she’s using him and dosent care about the rape. she literally has not faced the consequences at all.

Me too dropping

we stand against ntr

refreshing…? a lot of the times when the roles are swapped, the FLs only accept MLs like that because they haven’t done anything to harm them and if they did it usually ends in the FL finding a new relationship and realizing the toxicity of their relationship. what is refreshing and cool about a rapist?

....you found a rapist cool and refreshing just because she's a women?

I wish I could like your comment (๑•ㅂ•)و✧

Right? I swear humanity is absolutely doomed they're not wrong in saying she's a female version of a lot of male leads, but let's not pretend she's not a disgusting mess. People can like her the way they like toxic male leads, but let's normalize calling taking things for what they are and not trying to "pretty it up" or defend it.

lol it's funny that you're the first reply that i've gotten so far that seemingly understands what i meant and yet somehow it seems you still think i'm defending the empress

Calling somebody "cool" doesn't really suggest you're not okay with their behavior. If you wanna say that she is a compelling character, say that. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

I totally get what you mean here. It’s cool in the sense that from an objective pov, we’re getting a more realistic depiction of how abusers are totally not all they’re cracked up to be in the typical romanticized fashion in most romance plots. It’s just overlooked in most romance stories and we roll with it because “it’s part of the plot”. But it’s been reversed and we see how ugly it is and how readers react to how repulsive her actions actually are. It’s refreshing because it’s treated seriously instead of just being used as a plot point to advance the love story. Kudos to you for being able to enjoy the deep meaning of the story/characters for what it is! You can enjoy the characters without condoning what they’re actually doing. For all intents and purposes, the empress makes a fine villainess!

She is a well written character. We have seen worse mls