★'s Topics (147)

… I’m Asian too and that lady kidnapped her?! I’m pretty sure you’d feel angry too if your mom turned out to be your kidnapper?

Jfc how did you even find a comment from 2024.

Surprisingly it was one of the first comments I saw

Preach!!!!!
This is what Ive been thinking this whole time. Its her tragedy that makes her ending more satisfying, and I couldnt agree more.

Can you explain to me why is she as guilty just like her father ?

I see, another victim blamer. She did nothing wrong. She was a victim of her father and her husband. Her husband chose an elaborate plan to torture an innocent. And I understand fully the complexities of the story, as do the other people you insult by saying they don't get it if they don't have your opinion.

so if your parents commit a crime you’d be ok with repenting for their sins for the rest of your life and receiving the hate for it right?

That’s not what they said. The Fl benefitted from the awful things her father did. She even mentions how she should've been more aware of what he was doing instead of parading around everywhere so naively when so many people in the country were suffering.

This is the nuance OP was talking about that a lot of commenters are missing because they’re getting upset too quickly.

She is not AS guilty, but she is still guilty like her father. The story itself talks about FL's regret for how she acted in the past and the guilt she feels for being so ignorant to her father's crimes and more. She didn't do anything and that is her sin. She lived in ignorance and bliss, unaware of what was happening underneath the surface. She benefited from her father's tyrannical reign all while ML, his friends, and numerous other orphans were being tortured, being treated inhumanely, and getting used as disposable pawns for "the sake of the nation" because that's "the only way they can get their worth" the FL was just eating cake, drinking tea, laughing carelessly, and reaping the benefits borne from her father's cruelty. Rather than saying that the FL did nothing wrong, it is more accurate to say that FL did nothing at all. She sat there unaware of how the money she used for her life was gained at the expense of other people's lives. Ignorance is bliss as much as it is a sin, that is what makes her guilty.

Sighs. I didn't insult anyone in my comment, fyi, I just said some people don't look into the story too much. If u feel offended by it then I wonder why

Im sorry but she didn’t choose to be born in that family. Place anyone there and we would’ve all acted that way it wasn’t her fault or anything girls at that time couldn’t have known. Being ignorant isn’t a sin im sorry i totally do not agree with you just because you were lucky/unlucky to be born in a certain family doesn’t make you sinful

It’s the fact that she was willfully ignorant. The signs were obvious that her father was awful and she benefitted from the misfortune of others. That IS her fault snd she admits it in the story.

The ML’s stance is believable because he and people he cared for suffered because of her father. It’s like if you heard the daughter of a certain really bad dictator had no idea of the atrocities her father committed, willfully ignored finding out with the obvious signs, and benefited from other’s misfortunes and deaths while living a lavish life. It'd be a little hard to believe the daughter had no idea and wasn’t at least a SMIDGE guilty of being a spoiled, pampered fool who didn’t care enough about her people to even see them? Where she would have seen thr obvious suffering they’re going through at the hands of her father.

But she never made any attempts. Because she didn’t care about anyone or anything outside of her mansion.

(I still like the FL and look forward to her growth! But shes obviously not a great person either.)

I'm glad some people here share the same sentiment. I genuinely can't wrap my head around the opinion of FL being a completely innocent person when the story clearly shows that both FL and ML are morally gray and were born and raised in different social standings hence why they're both the way they are. That and that FL could've decided to investigate the situation further (the brown haired lady went to protest and kept begging to talk to FL) but chose not to, Anette just simply chose to be ignorant and let the situation pass despite her uneasiness.

Don't take this the wrong way but your view is very narrow and short sighted. The situation is very complex and has a lot of nuance to it, simplifying it to just "Anette isn't at fault for not knowing anything" shows a lack of social awareness and I seriously hope this isn't your mindset to real life issues. Certain points used for my argument are applicable to real life events where in the less privileged suffer as a result of the more privileged taking advantage of them/having more chances than them.

Do you think it's okay for a white American to not be aware of what racism is and be oblivious to the things that were done to build their country? Do you think it's okay for men to stay silent at the sufferings of women because "They don't know misogyny is bad"? Do you think that the privileged upper class deserve to get slots for scholarships in state universities because they're smart despite those slots being meant to support the lower class and the upper class have more than enough money to pay for the full tuition? Saying that being ignorant isn't a sin and isn't bad is an insane take because that is simply not the case. Being ignorant is TERRIBLE because you are choosing to ignore issues that are RIGHT in front of you. If I choose to stay in my bubble, never step outside, never listen to the latest news, and never make an effort to understand the sufferings of other people for my sake, I am choosing to be WILFULLY IGNORANT, and that is exactly what Anette did.

A good portion of the readers of this story don't seem to understand just how complex humans are and how these situations have layers to them and your thoughts on the situation at hand reflects your mindset as a person. I'm begging you to please educate yourself on certain things, this manhwa isn't meant for mindless consumption, it is portraying a realistic story filled with layers and layers of nuance, issues between the privileged and non privileged, and more. Not even about the story at this point, your mindset itself is harmful.

unknowingly benefited though, if nothing has gone wrong with her life thus far why would she be suspicious for no reason, she’s not wrong for assuming her own father was a good person, she’s known the dude her whole life and he’s always been good to her

Oh! This mindset is incredibly harmful and as people we should have the initiative and SEEK out to see what is happening around us and around our world and not just stay in our own bubble, that's called being wilfully ignorant, that and you've completed missed the point of Mausi's well structured response.

But her father still reigned over the people which were HER people too. I feel you’re at least a tiny bit obligated to know how the lives of the people your family is ruling over is going.

She’s not wrong for assuming her father was a good person. She’s wrong to continue living in her bubble, again like she stated herself, being ignorant to the suffering of those around her when she easily could’ve found out.

Reading how you are describing me makes me think that im terrorist dont go ahead and judge people because of a manhwa i didn’t judge you because i didn’t agree with you or anything next time don’t go around and analyse people please and don’t say that we’re harmful and whatnot jeez and i didn’t say being ignorant is good i said it wasn’t a sin she should’ve seen searched and helped others sure but to say that she was sinful thus making it seem as if she deserved her suffering later on is HARMFUL

The fact that you are taking my reply as a personal attack and getting offended by it and saying that I’m “making you sound like a terrorist” when I am simply critiquing your mindset and telling you to educate yourself is.. not a good look! “Ignorance is not innocence but sin,” is a popular quote among people that usually talk about topics that somehow connect to that alongside different kinds of issues. Your response is poorly structured and I can see that you didn’t grasp my response at ALL. I said in the end and in the start that your thoughts on this manhwa reflect you as a person and I mentioned how outside the manhwa, your MINDSET itself is concerning. This is the internet, implying that I’m “being rude” for analyzing you and saying your mindset is bad is absurd when it is only right to correct others on their thinking, especially if they are not informed?? Not ONCE did I say that her suffering under her husband is okay and that she deserved it, I’m saying she’s GUILTY because she CHOSE to be IGNORANT. Once more, the thing about ignorance being a sin is from a QUOTE and is not meant to be taken in a LITERAL Christian manner wherein being ignorant means you will go to hell and you deserve to suffer. It is about how being ignorant is BAD, that is the meaning of the quote.

For the love of god, please educate yourself. Once more, I repeat, your views on fiction reflect how you are as a person I am not saying this because you don’t find Anette at fault but rather because you are advocating for ignorance not being harmful. Your mindset is NOT a good one.

You said " I just know the person leaving the comment behind can’t actually fathom the complexity of the story". I think that is insulting to readers of the same story who don't feel the way you do about it. Now you don't have to wonder, because it implies if they someone has a different opinion than you , they just can't understand the story like you do.

Sorry, but I really find this such odd thinking. To blame someone who didn't know something that was happening .. These things happen all the time, wives find out that their husband has killed people.. Is she responsible because she was at home with the kids living the family life that she thought was normal? The correct answer is no. And the story tells the story of the FL's guilt over her father's crimes, but I feel like you , who like to talk about nuance, should understand that her guilt is misplaced and she has been gaslighted into taking the blame. By her husband, who planned and executed a long con to torture her over something her father did and she knew nothing about. He is mental. It's understandable he's not mentally sound, but to buy into his story that she deserves it is a total fail on your part imo. She had people people hating her, that's called mob mentality. They don't need justification , there's not investigation or proof that she was guilty of anything, but they feel hatred towards her. It's simple minded. Like people who go burn down innocent peoples homes that are suspected of a crime but later find out they were innocent. It's appalling.

" willfully " ignorant huh? Interesting, so she purposefully didn't know something? How does that work? And she is suffering guilt, because she has hindsight.. And human nature often tries to take the blame after the fact when they think maybe they could have done something. That certainly doesn't mean they could have, and it just doesn't change the fact that she didn't know. Adding 'willfully' to the word ignorance is trying too hard to assign blame imo

exactly

I explained it in the rest of my comment if you want to reread it.

And calling her willfully ignorant doesn’t mean she isn’t a victim of her circumstances. This isn’t something that is black OR white. Good OR bad. There’s nuance and grey areas to it.

She’s obviously a victim in certain aspects but that doesn’t mean she isn’t guilty in others. Because she benefited from her privilege and position while having the power to know the misfortune others were experiencing during to her family’s reign. She had the power to educate herself on her privilege and she could have done so easily but she CHOSE to remain ignorant. That’s being willfully ignorant. Again, it isn’t blaming a victim but realizing there are layers to these stories.

For instance, remembering that there are more victims than just her. Like the people who died or suffered under her family’s reign.

Please explain how she CHOSE to remain ignorant.? That's confusing.. And it's not her responsibility or fault that people suffered. It's sad, but that's not on her. If you talk about how she lived, why wouldn't she live the way she was brought up and thought of as normal and didn't see the evil man behind the curtain. It happens, it doesn't make it her fault.

Wow, that's some pretty lofty comments.. I beg you to stop being so condescending to everyone who doesn't feel the same way as you do about this .

Hypothetically, if I told you right now that every time you said the word 'chose' someone fainted from horrible pain. Why would you suspect it to be true? It's not within your understanding of the world. You have the power to search that out to be true, but why would you even think to do it? When you find out, you would feel terrible.. Hindsight creates the guilt you see in her character, and that is the layers and nuance of this story imo. She grieves for those that suffered because she DID NOT KNOW. That would be natural. It's not a fair feeling imo, but it's human nature. You might have all the reactions she is going through... but that never made it something she willfully did.

Rofl. Birds of a feather truly stick together, you aren't even listening to any of the actual points made and you're only going on and on with your opinion without bothering to listen to the other side. Mind you, the story itself says that Anette is guilty, Anette herself says that she feels guilty and that she could've done something, the story tells you that she is at fault for being ignorant. A good portion of you can't critically consume this story in the way it is meant to be consumed because you're so caught up in your opinion and refuse to acknowledge that being ignorant IS bad. I am not being "condescending" because you "don't feel the same way I do" about the manhwa, this isn't even about the manhwa anymore. That response was a direct critique to that person's mindset since they were advocating that being ignorant is OKAY.

That is NOT the case and only ignorant people can say that ignorance is fine. Just like that person, YOU share that mindset and the reason why you both see me as "condescending" and "mean" is because I am saying that you guys don't understand the story, hence why you think Anette is 100% innocent. The situation is not white or black, it is GRAY. This situation is GENUINELY so mind boggling to me. It feels like talking to a person who thinks abortion should be illegal and them telling me to "respect their opinion" despite their opinion being harmful and morally wrong.

She didn't choose to talk to the sister of the brother whose life her father tarnished?? Mind you the brown haired woman was outside their gate yelling and protesting and begging to talk to FL, FL KNEW something weird was going on but chose to not talk to that lady. This is literally also stated in the story about one of her biggest regrets. I'm begging you to reread the story and look at all the passages of Anette feeling immense guilt for being ignorant and the amount of times she thought of "If I had just done something else, could this have been changed/avoided?" Even Anette knows she's guilty, the story says she's guilty BUT ALSO A VICTIM, and you guys seem to think that saying she's guilty means she's not a victim when in truth NO ONE here said that Anette wasn't a victim, it's just that she is also GUILTY.

Unironically, you just explained how she wilfully chose to be ignorant by saying "Why would you even think to do it?" It is exactly because she didn't think of doing anything that she chose to be wilfully ignorant. She could've talked with the brown haired lady who was calling out for her before, but she chose not to, no? She decided to go back in her mansion and despite feeling unsettled and nervous, she chose to ignore the situation at hand because she wanted to just ignore it and be comfortable. At school, if you choose to be on leave, it is your responsibility to ask your classmates about what happened throughout the day, no? Say you only find out about a project one day before its deadline and you're too late, you find out that the project was explained when you were absent, you talk to the teacher and say you "didn't know because you weren't there" the teacher will most likely not accept that excuse and will instead chastise you for not asking your classmates, friends, or even your teachers about what you missed that day. THAT is your responsibility. It is your responsibility to find out what happened during that day because you are AWARE that you missed school that day.

Your mindset is harmful. I said it to that other person and idgaf I'll say it to you too. What you're advocating for enables people to remain ignorant solely because "knowing makes you sad and makes you feel guilty". White men should know about their privilege. Americans should know about their history and the things their government has done. People in third world countries should research on the people they choose as their leaders and they should know whether their government is doing anything or are just being corrupt. Excusing ignorance by saying "But you have no reason to do it" and "Why would you even think of doing that" isn't a good thing. When you vote for a president, you have to look at their policies, what they've done, their background, and more. Why? Because it WILL affect you as a citizen. Likewise, Anette should've been more curious about her father and how he ruled because the money she used was her father's and because she was the daughter of a monarch, she directly impacted the lives of commoners too.

LOL, puh-lease, your arrogance knows no bounds. The 'internet ' is giving you permission to judge someone? Wow, that's powerful...but I think you ought to own it, it's your own sense of superiority. The fact that you think you are 'correcting' someone.. geesh. Your using a quote by a poet to prove something? For the love of god, please take a look at yourself first.

You’re choosing to judge things solely on your own perspective and not even listening to the other side. And when you get called out, you tell them to stop judging you and that they’re arrogant and have a sense of superiority? Please be serious and stop being immature

I don't feel judged.. I am offended for the commenter who spoke their opinion and was told they needed to 'educate' themselves, that their view is 'narrow and shortsighted', that they have a ' lack of social awareness', that they are being told they are like someone who doesn't understand racism and misogyny is bad, that the 'structure' of how their opinion was written was bad, haha. And I could go on and on with the insults that have been hurled at people who don't agree with you. Your critical thinking is flawed, it's clear. "Sin" is different things for different people. Not everyone believes as you . The comment section , like the internet, is filled with people who don't claim English as their first language. It's also filled with all different ages, and you don't know who you are admonishing, and I don't see why you think you have the right to do so. Here's a quote for you to ponder that, you know, goes around... " the more you learn, the less you know". Ponder it, people who think they know everything, can't learn new things.

Do you genuinely think saying that being ignorant is okay is a good mindset to have. It's so ironic for you to call me condescending and arrogant for "using a quote" when you're turning around and doing the exact same things you accused me of doing. Notice how you're saying my critical thinking is flawed in response to my comment calling that person's mindset harmful (when it is)? Stop being a hypocrite and telling me "I have no right" to be criticizing others when you're doing the exact same thing with me.

I am criticizing you , true. I called you out.. you aren't an innocent.. You dumped on innocents who just expressed an opinion. I used your own tactics against you to show you how it feels. Using your own words often, and your techniques in my responses to try and shine a light on those repugnant gaslighting words your rained down on others. I don't deny it, at all. I guess we're done now.. I'll mute..

You're not getting ANY of OP's points omfg... I don't even think you're even bothering to read and comprehend them... It's like arguing with a wall . This is NOT the clapback you think it is. OP raises such interesting perspectives with regards to the manhwa, such a shame that some people are not willing to see another perspective without being "offended".

I was never offended for myself.. I guess you didn't read my comments. I was offended for the person who just expressed THEIR opinion and was answered by this person telling them ' to educate themselves', inferred the commenter couldn't understand racism or misogyny, they said their opinion was 'narrow and shortsighted' , they accused the commenter of having a 'lack of social awareness' and went on a rant about who can afford to go to college!And there were so many more insults that! All this arrogance poured on someone who simply expressed their opinion. NOT me, someone else. You don't find it insulting and arrogant that they said in their first comment that 'most all ' of the readers couldn't understand the nuance and complexity of the story? What a high horse this person rides. And you defend them..I don't agree that the FL is guilty, it's my opinion.. That's my point of view and moral compass. I don't blame people for something they didn't do. It's okay if we differ in opinions. BUT I didn't find it ok that the OP smacked down someone else who expressed their opinion with lofty, gaslighting... acting so superior. If that's okay with you, then I feel you don't understand what's going on here, or shall I group you with the person who places their opinion as the only right one and every one else are ignorant, lowly educated dolts if they don't agree?

She chose to remain ignorant because she wasn’t interested in the lives of her and her father’s people because it didn’t concern her. If she had any want to step outside and see what others were going through, she would’ve learned. But she didn’t care. She remained ignorant and pampered. She even stated it herself. She CHOSE to be ignorant. That’s what willfully ignorant is.

Sure, she didn’t choose who she was born to or how she was raised but she had no interest in knowing because she was happy in her own bubble. Therefore, she was willfully ignorant. Hope that helps.

Further, the ML in this story committed atrocities, and then laid out a plan and seduced and lied to someone to get them to fall for him, killed their father, then proceeded to be cruel and emotionally abusive until the woman tried to kill herself , twice. NOT ONE single word against him are either you or the OP making your stand on . I just wonder why the OP went after the FL so hotly, and said she was as guilty as her father? I find it odd.
The OP wants to go on a tangent and whip people saying they don't understand class, politics, gender, education, sin etc because they don't agree with their pov... and they clearly say they have the right to do so. I understand the story, I have already said , imo, it's human nature when finding out something too late, that in hindsight your mind tries to think what you could have done, to assume blame. But that doesn't make it right or logical. The story isn't saying she is guilty, she feels it and assumes it as part of the story. She has seen horrible things, and been treated horribly, and her mind is set on atonement. Trying to find a comfortable way to live. That is one of the nuances of the story imo, is she guilty? My opinion is no, yours and the OP is yes. We could talk about the gray areas, but the OP is too filled with their own ego and takes the opportunity to belittle people who don't agree with them. So, it totally brought out my protective side.

This is so dumb. I thought you said you muted this already? If you actually read my replies without your eyes closed, you can see that your wording for things is already off.

1) I said she was guilty like her family, not AS GUILTY AS her father. I literally expounded on this in the replies and repeated this point.

2) The reason why I started talking about political and contemporary issues is because this story is also incredibly tied to that. This story depicts a lot of dark themes and events that can have their own modern version. Orphans getting abducted and turned into child soldiers for the kingdom, things like that can have an equivalent in our real life if you KNOW what are some of the issues currently happening.

3) My replies where you said I'm "belittling" and "insulting" another person is because it is literally true that being ignorant is wrong? Their stance was that being ignorant is okay (because they didn't get the quote, so I EXPLAINED it for them), and that person was the one who started talking about sin because they didn't get the meaning of the quote I said? Literally all I did was explain things to them and talk about how their mindset is harmful because it IS you are just not willing to listen to me.

4) "The OP is filled with their own ego and belittles everyone that doesn't agree with them," you're the one who has been continuously insulting me, justifying it by saying I'm a "bad" person when all I did was explain to someone how their mindset was bad when it is? You got offended on someone's behalf because I called out how their moral compass should not be the way that it is? YOU are the one who's filled with your own ego because not ONCE have I insulted YOU or the person you got offended over. All I did was express my opinion and WORRIES over their way of thinking, you saw this as me belittling them when I clearly say that "I don't mean this in a rude way" and have repeatedly used the word "please" in my replies.

There are not enough words in the dictionary to even give meaning to the feeling that bubbles up in me whenever I see one of your replies. You constantly insult me, judge me, and analyze me and justify it by saying I'm a bad person but then you proceed to turn around and say that me criticizing one's mindset is being "rude" and that I'm "comparing them to terrorists" when all I did was give out rhetorical questions to further prove my point on how being ignorant isn't a good thing at all. You're a hypocrite and a liar too, it seems. You have done nothing but spew insult after insult, offense after offense justifying it by painting me as a bad person who's done terrible things when in fact all these "terrible things" are my words that you didn't even manage to comprehend and understand and painfully misconstrued. Do you not see how stupid it is to claim that you're just "doing what's right" by insulting me and being rude to me simply because you don't understand my replies and you can't comprehend the fact that criticism is not belittlement? God forbid I tell someone that their mindset is harmful because saying that being ignorant is okay can actually lead to them having terrible perspectives on ongoing issues.

Get my name out of your mouth, mute this thread, and for once LEAVE me alone. You make me feel disgusted, you've been continuously harassing me through words and claiming that I did the same when not once have I spew out such vulgarities to other people and the only thing I did was show CONCERN because once more, their mindset IS harmful.

You're a terrible and disgusting person, I hope you know this. Mute this thread and leave me alone. And before you make another useless clapback about how I'm "insulting" and "offending" you, use your head and reread your replies because I'm only returning the energy you gave me. You're fucking filthy, leave me the fuck alone

I muted you.. We will never agree.. and I am done.. I was responding to someone who said I didn't understand you.. btw, I didn't read anything you wrote above, so it's a waste of both of our time.

I don't fucking care because you still responds to me, oh you "muted me" but got a notification. Leave me alone, bitch

replying to this suuuper late but while this is undoubtedly true in a real life scenario, no amount of research, reading newspapers, or even reading every book in the library would’ve told her anything about what was going on, and while this is just me guessing i feel like no one would’ve told her either considering her dad was the one committing the atrocities. Also yes be aware of what’s happening around you! but when you don’t even know what you’re supposed to be looking for, it’s impossible. i’m just thinking that during this time period it’s not as easy to gather information as we might think

She stated herself that if she had been a bit more aware, she would’ve found out what kind of things were happening in the country.

From how it looks, she rarely left her mansion and was only interested in what she wanted to do. Less so what might have been happening to others.

So no, I don’t think it’d be impossible for her to be aware when she wasn’t looking at all. I’m sure she could’ve seen how the people were living if she wasn’t stuck in her bubble of nobles. All being blissfully unaware of what the majority of the people in their country lived like.

(Also, the latest chapters showed they had soldiers that came over? So she was aware there was a war going on at least. Just not interested in finding out their experiences. Just the fact she was left a bouquet. Just, again, only being interested in her own bubble and her own life while knowing a war is being fought around her.).

This can easily be disproven since there were literal civilians protesting at their gate and even the brown haired girl was there asking to speak to her, she just chose not to. FL has repeatedly talked about regretting not talking to brown haired girl and not trying to find out about what was happening sooner. I would also like to mention that back then nobles had easy access to the black market and newspapers and that newspapers could've helped the FL understand what was happening, she's a smart girl.