Maple Tree's Topics (262)

AND WHY KENTA HAS THIS PHOTO ! XD

not gonna lie the rape was hot though. It happens in BL bdsm all the time and yet I dont see as many people complaining. Separate porn from real life.

I don't recall saying that i'm fine with it if it's in a yaoi. Its still disturbing. There isn't a warning either, which shows that the author took Minho's rape really lightly.

The plot is realistic and given so much of detail, i just thought the author would properly portray what it's like for a rape victim. Using rape as a plot pawn or just cus its 'hot' is really disgusting and is an injustice to people who have actually gone through it. if you pay attention, it's like the author is trying to justify Minho's rape because he was an asshole. It's not just the issue of porn vs real life, it's the message that the author is conveying.

Exactly. Thank you. Why don't people understand this...

Regarding the warning, I don’t know if this is correct but it’s a thought. The reason there isn’t a warning regarding the subject matter is because this isn’t a comic, this is a manwha which means it was in a different language and in a different country. If looking for a warning, it would be the scanlation/translation group and even then that’s not really their responsibility. I do agree that a warning would be great but I don’t think it represents the author’s thoughts of what happened to Minho. I do believe that there are other aspects that do show that her revenge has definitely taken a extreme affect if Minho’s character is based off a real individual.

Not about you, it was addressed to BL +femdom fans. Moral standards are so vocalised in femdom but they aren't anywhere else. Obviously she wouldn't portray rape victims realistically, she's stated so many times that Minho was heavily inspired by someone who emotionally abused her and the whole "abuse Minho" schtick in this manga is her method of catharsis. Also, why does porn need a message?????? She did a good job of portraying Doona as a victim of abuse, though. Her whole arc of learning to trust and love again with the help of Haesol was powerful.

ah okay, i understand the warning issue

my heart goes out to the author for what she faced. but since im criticising this comic as a reader, im looking at the story. the author makes a living out of this so may as well be fair. i just mentioned why this needs a message, reread my reply. using 'its just porn' as an excuse for misrepresenting rape and its psychological effects is quite disgusting.

we have long moved on from the 'its just fiction' reasoning. people actually go through this shit and seeing it being portrayed in famous medias like this is horrifying.

and i agree about Doona recovering as a victim of abuse but it wasn't healthy. at all. raping your abuser in order to get over your trauma doesn't seem powerful. taking out your anger in the form of violence isn't powerful either- its toxic and unhealthy.

in fact, since it so vividly deals with abuse, why NOT pay just as much as attention to the issue of rape? the author went all out on the realism about abuse but not rape as much. the inconsistency is a whole mood off. painting a rapist as a healing victim is ridiculous. Doona and Minho are both at fault. Minho is a victim of circumstance mostly and rape. Doona is a victim of emotional abuse.

I mean, shit, forget about Doona. what about Wookyung??? he just gets his happy ending for being a scummy manipulative rapist? ah no, apparently its cus he helped Doona get out of her toxic relationship that he deserves the world. i really don't know what the hell the author is doing with his character. of all the people he deserves the most suffering

I agree with everything you said. Doona is obviously a sociopath. She needs therapy. Actually all of them need it. It doesn't matter if he abused her emotionally or not, raping someone isn't normal and it should never be a normal thing. The only reason Minho is the only one who gets a bad ending is because the author hates him. That's literally it.
Woongyung gets a good ending because "Anyone is better than Minho" because "He hurt a girl" (let's face it, that's how people's minds work). If Minho was a girl people would hate Doona and Woongyung 10000000%, but yeah. Minho might be a jerk, but that's nowhere near an excuse to get him abused and raped and to see it as an ok thing.
This isn't just porn, this had a story with realistic characters, so they should put realistic emotions and realistic character development in it, but the author didn't, and it's literally because she hates Minho, nothing else and that's obvious because she gives any (unreasonable) reason for us to hate Minho so we don't feel bad about him. To see him as a villain when he's the real victim here. Like, why are people so blind....

I don't get why you still harness the belief that female characters get away with abuse, while men wouldn't. If Doona was a man and the genders were reversed, she'd probably have an army of simps. Look at the response to A Physical Education. Rape, non con and blackmail occurs, but everyone simps for the seme. Also no one's seeing Minho as a villain. I just genuinely don't care about him. I have no sympathy or irritation. He is just... There. I'm not attached to his character, while I am attached to Doona, Haesol and Gyerin as characters.

Doona's recovery wasn't healthy. And that portrays her character in a far more realistic light. If I had been through the same stuff as Doona, I probably would have had my catharsis in a far more unhealthy way. Since I follow Doona's journey I'm the story, I'm apathetic about Minho. He's never been given much thought to his character construction. Unlike Doona and Haesol, he doesn't have many edges to his character. He's flat. I don't feel sympathy for him, but I also don't hate him. I don't *feel* for him at all. I really respect how you can have empathy for all characters, not just the ones written well.

Also yeah, I'm glad you're consistent. Many Doona haters actually like Wookyung and I'm like ???. I only like Wookyung as a sub but his personality adds a lot of spice to the story, so I like him. Also I'm a Doona stan so liking Wookyung is consistent with my beliefs.

Also, people don't hate Minho because he "hurt a girl", it's because he's arrogant, selfish, and always never learns from past misfortunes. I personally don't feel for him because how flat he is as a character, but my aforementioned points are why alot of my friends hate him. It isn't about gender. And women do not have it better than men. I find it disgusting that you're reading a femdom manga and still so alarmingly anti-women.

I'm not talking about you when I said that people see him as the villain of the story. I've read other comments about it. Yes, they do find him hot. But then again most of the people who read yaoi are 1000000% fine with rape and some of them don't even see it happening. I'm not talking about gay relationships, I'm saying that people get very protective over female characters and they always see them as the victim of the story (unless the author themselves doesn't show them as a bad person. In this manga, the author sees Doona as the victim, even though she's the abuser and rapist in the story, so we're supposed to see it that way - which many people do). Doona is just overdramatic at this point. She literally doesn't care about anyone but herself and doesn't see her actions as wrong - she's the same (and worse) than Minho. He's manipulative - she's even more, he's narcissistic - so is she, he's emotionally abusive - she's emotionally and physically abusive + she's a rapist. She's literally Minho, just not that "pathetic" aka she's better at manipulation and abuse which isn't a good thing. I don't understand why anyone would like or care about her. She's literally a rapist, like, what....

Ikr why do people even like him? He, first of all, doesn't have any character, and is pretty much worse than Doona, so like wth?
I don't care about how good or bad is the character written, I just care about how, as people, they feel (even if they aren't real, they are technically people). Like, the author obviously doesn't care to make Minho's character realistic - she hates him. She can't make him look like the victim or we would feel bad for him, which she (the author) doesn't want. I feel bad for him because if the author actually cared to make him feel like a normal person (which he should after being raped so many times, but she doesn't want to write him that way), he would feel miserabe right now...

As a girl myself, I understand that girls have it worse than men, but in this manga that's just not the case. I would side with her if she didn't LITERALLY rape and abuse him. Have you heard of toxic masculinity? She's literally the female version. She's hurting everyone and we should side with her because women have it worse? No. She's literally a sociopath, I'm not gonna side with a literal criminal and a rapist.

Both Doona and Minho are manipulative abusers and victims. Only, Doona is given more backstory and focus, which makes her a much more interesting character. I'm different from you, I can see myself in rapists and abusers as long as they're fleshed out and well written. I like interesting characters, not morally sound ones. Also, people aren't protective of female characters, they're protective of men. Even the most BLAND, shittily written man will get the support of people like you. Your reaction to such a unsympathetic character just proves this.

I do like well-written characters regardless of their morality too, but rape is too far for me to actually appreciate the character because I lose all my respect for them right away. I don't think Doona is an interesting character as well, she's boring in my eyes. Like, all I know about her is she's a writer, she cheated on Minho, she raped and abused Minho, she's a sadist. That's pretty much her whole character, she's not that deep. There ARE some interesting characters that are worse (morally) than here, but they are also more interesting than her, so.... I
And listen, I'm not protective of men. I don't find Minho sympathetic, I just feel bad for him because he has to go through all this abuse. If Doona was in his position I would side with her. Please don't judge me without even knowing me and saying that I always side with men. I'm siding with the victim here. Yes, she's a victim too, but she isn't anymore, she's the abuser now - just as rotten as he is, and even worse. He didn't physically hurt her, she's emotionally AND physically hurting him.
People side with the main character like 70% of the time because there is this mindset of the main character = good. Liking her JUST because she has a backstory isn't enough. I don't like Minho either, but that's the thing - there is no good character in this story, they are all pretty boring, so I'm judging them based on morality. Minho is morally better than her, and he's the victim in the present. Even if she did want revenge, she's going way too far. Like, can you imagine going through what he did just because you look down at people? Like, that's just disgusting. Of course, he's not the best person in the world, but he didn't deserve what he went through.
I'm not trying to hurt or argue with anyone, I'm just saying how I feel about the characters. Gender isn't what I'm going for, I'm just saying what people usually think. I would side with Minho even if he was a girl. I'm not attacking you, I'm just saying my side of the things, so like, why are you being rude? There is no need for it.

I’m sorry if my response to your comment is interfering with your other convo but I just wanted to provide a different perspective on the characters. It was actually your comment about Doona not being a victim anymore that made me want to comment. She is still a victim, just someone that didn’t have the correct support to heal which led to her bad decisions/actions including raping Minho.

The emotional abuse she had from Minho created hatred that she didn’t realize was attributed by his lack of self confidence of himself and work. Also, and please correct me if I’m wrong, Doona also thought that Minho was cheating on her which also could have molded that hatred. It was nurtured by her lack of information and the other guy who attacked Minho (forgot his name). They were young adults still in college and even the other guy had taken on “teaching” her about the lifestyle which was totally TOTALLY incorrect. He even told her that, “well isn’t going against what they want more fun?” Or something like that which Doona took with her. So, yes I understand she’s an abuser but she IS still a victim.

Also, I actually feel that Doona’s character has had development because of what we are seeing now in the present with the black haired guy. She’s listening, not running away from problems (though the black haired guy did help with that), she apologized, and she’s realizing that consent is a lot more fun than what she believed was sadism. Regarding Minho, he’s still acting the way he did in college, now with more authority because he was a professor. The emotional abuse he was showing Doona, he was actually doing to his students and then after everything that happened to him, he still acted ignorant, narcissistic, and harsh. I’m not saying that experience should lead to a change but the experience of anxiety regarding his own writing and harsh criticism on it is something he was doing to Doona all the time and I was hoping he would have realize that. Even now, his attitude regarding selling his watches and everything is not showing development as much as I wish would happen.

Does it change what she did? Not at all. She shouldn’t have raped or hurt Minho but to be honestly, her character was built to being wrongly informed and to wrongly identify what her actions were doing. That doesn’t mean she’s an amazing character and I don’t like her or what she did but this is my opinion regarding the characters

Oh, I didn't mean it in that way, just worded it poorly. She is still a victim, I'm just saying that she's more of the abuser than a victim -at the moment-. I'm not saying her life is perfect, just saying that she's now hurting others more than she gets hurt herself (even abusers can be victims of their own abuse, so like... Yeah). I meant it in a way that I don't think she's getting hurt at the moment (maybe gets a little manipulated sometimes, which yes, it is abuse, but still) other than she's hurting herself with her past (not trying to blame her, that's just how it works - example: myself. I've dealt with bullying and stuff for many years, now no one is bullying me anymore, but still getting hurt by memories). I'm not saying she doesn't have a reason, I'm just saying that rape should never be revenge. She could tell the police, or like, even beating him once wouldn't be too bad, or "bullying" him or smth. That's technically ok, but she's going too far. I do feel bad for her, I'm just saying that what she's doing is wrong and I can't bring myself to side with her or like her. Again, if Minho did what she's doing, I would side with her. Minho is the victim at the moment (or the one getting the worst, at least) so I'm siding with him. In the present, she's less the victim of stuff. People are in a toxic environment most of their lives, not even knowing it (being manipulated, etc.), so pretty much everyone has been similar to her at least once in their life, even if they don't know it, and Minho is getting much worse abuse, so he's a victim of worse things than she is (that doesn't make her not be a victim, but she is the abuser in this situation/moment).
Also, she isn't really changing. She did realize, but only when she wants to. She doesn't feel bad for what she's doing to Minho. She apologized to Haesol (sorry if I wrote it wrong) only because she cares for him. Being nice to 1 person, and terrible to others doesn't make you a good person. She doesn't care about Minho, so in her eyes, if he feels aroused by her - he's fine with whatever she does to him, which is not how it works. So in changing for 1 person, but only for that person, not the others, is not a development in my eyes (Like, if she knows what consent is she won't do that to Minho, because if you actually understand rape you will understand how terrible that is.) She's nice, but only for him. Like, if you kill 1000 people and are nice to 1 dude it doesn't mean you've changed. (She's not that crazy tho, this is just a comparison).
I respect different views, and I'm not trying to make anyone believe in what I'm saying, nor I'm trying to fight anyone. I'm just saying how I see stuff and how the characters are in my eyes. I see rape as the worst thing you can do, so Minho being a jerk is NOTHING in comparison to what she did.
And Woongyung too, if we're talking about rape. He's much worse than her - she's at least doing it for revenge (doesn't mean anything to me, rape is rape, but at least she's doing it for a... KIND of a reasonable reason that you can kinda understand (which doesn't mean agreeing with her, so yes, I CAN understand her view, but I strongly disagree and am disgusted by it).), he's doing it because he wants to, no real reason, just finds it hot (which is gross. Being a sadist and being a rapist isn't the same), so like, yes, I am talking bad about her, but only because that's the conversation. Woongyung is pretty much the worst character in the manhwa.

Me too I want yeonwoo to be happy but will he be happy if he got his revenge? Deep down inside he knew he love Keith but sadly Keith is a stupid asshole that caused everything to be twisted ╥﹏╥

IKR but the uke feels some type of way :(