MiSaKii's Topics (22)

I doubt she said that.

that s why i d like to know the source of that comment - so i can check if koogi said something about that or not - checked her twitter and she didn t say anything about it hm......... well...

I Kinda have to agree cause I don't think Bum ever said he didn't want it, like in the latest chapter he just didn't want it outside but he loves him so I guess it's not rape, at least not in Bum's mind.

that s what i actually tried to explain in my other comments - but - well - *shrugs
there are a lot of different opinions about that xD i stick to the "it wasn t rape"

but i was actually more curious about if koogi said something about it - like mentioned in one of the comments somewhere - but i can't find the comment - and can t ask for the source T_T - and i really don t want to read all the comments now xD

Maybe she said it was rape but google translated it wrong, Its possible(⌒▽⌒)

well i d like to find that out - but we can t as long we don t know the source ne? On her twitter was nothing about that statement - i don t know where to search - but well whatever xD it was pure curiosity about what koogi says to this scene

It was rape because Bum didn't want to have sex outside among other reasons. This argument is exhausted
Someone wrote a good definition of rape here http://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/2216413/

thank you i know what rape is ;)

the moment they both got inside the house bum relaxed and said that he likes sangwoo and there was no no right?

anyway - it s my opinion hate or love it - as long as no real persons are harmend there shouldn t be a problem

i just don t understand why people keep reading it when they hate it so much and are disgusted by the story - gosh ok then go away and read something else - there are a hell lot of manwhas out there?

there are people on tumblr sending deadthreats to killing stalking fans - because it s abusive - let that sink in

Bum has spent a long time with Sangwoo, feels love and attraction to Sangwoo, and might desire sex with Sangwoo at a different place or time--doesn't make it not rape when Sangwoo forcibly sticks his penis in him while he tells him to stop. At best it's rape that transitioned to consensual sex when they went inside.

Not trying to judge or hate on anyone or anything, just explaining why this is being called rape.

I'm not starting this argument again. I agree completely with the topic I linked you that defines rape.

Saying "Sangwoo raped Bum" is not the same as saying "I hate Killing Stalking". On Tumblr there's also explanations, by fans of killing stalking, about how it was rape. A lot of people are more willing to admit Sangwoo raped Bum than to defend his actions because they're fans of the manhwa.

mh na the "love or hate it" wasn t exactly for you

anyway - i really have a hard time seeing it as rape - because of the reason i explained - bum also says he s scared of the police- which is funny because they don t harm him - he s a masochist in many ways - he s also mentally ill - and he feels safe next to sangwoo even tho he knows how scary/agressive sangwoo is - and is often scared of him - maybe its because it s a devil he knows

anyway- was it rape? not for me - painful? yes

i think there were two reasons for bums no - first it hurt (yup sure without lube and preparation) and second because of the place - well - *shrugs
the moment sangwoo said that he was braging about dating him etc bum was already pretty in it - somewhere between pain and pleasure - and as soon they got in he could relax more and told sangwoo once more that he likes him

someone said it s one of bums survive strategy - but - well... i can t believe that anymore - sangwoo didn t try to kill him in this very moment - he wasn t fearing for his life - but he still told him he likes him

due to his mental state bum really feels atracted and loves bum in a very twisted way and he wanted to have sex - just ..not outside - how much he likes or dislikes pain - well - i m not sure about that cause he really seems to be a hardcore masochist if he can get pleasure out of hardcore anal ---sex---or rape

no saying sangwoo raped bum is not the same as saying i hate killing stalking

i have no problem with that either - when people see it in that or in another way

the problem is that there are people out there making a big drama out of a manwha and sending deadthreats and i don t know what to people who like killing stalking - that is sick

"it s abusive and sick so go and kill yourself for liking it" let that sink in please...

This really isn't the place for the discussion of antis. Leave that drama on Tumblr.

If you enjoyed it and had the backbone to admit that to enjoyed it despite understanding its rape, I respect that. It is your opinion. I get it, a lot of people have rape fetish and they pretend to do just that as role play. While some confuse rape with rough sex. There is no point to beat the dead horse, to say why some feel that it was forced. You want the romance and I/we want just to read this awesome manhwa. And some might have strong opinion on sangwoo, but can you blame them? He is not what he appears to be, you love him and you hate him.

i do like and enjoy rape or rapeplays in mangas and i have no problem to admit it

i only explained why in this case i really don t see is as rape

and i don t want the romance - i think i made it pretty clear in my first comment.....
and no i don t blame anybody because of an opinion - if they hate sangwoo ok if you love go ahhead - that was never the point of this discussion - was it?

thank you - if you don t want to talk about it - fine let it pass but please don t try to tell me where i can talk about something and where not - because i read a lot of hate here aswell, ok? it s my comment - my opinion and my statement -if you don t like it - don t agree with it - or don t want to talk about it - no problem - but don t tell me that i don t have the right to do so ok?

There's no one receiving death threats on mangago. Antis don't flock here on a witch hunt like they do on Tumblr. It makes more sense to address the issue there.

clearly it wasn't.

and you know exactly where i address that issue and where not hm? you also know exactly if there are threats on mangago or not right?

also this wasn t at all about whats going on or tumblr - what happens on tumblr did i just address here as well because there are way too many peeps saying they hate killing stalking but read it and then tell everyone who likes killing stalking that they re sick (yup even here on mangago ) - and yup i also read hate here in the comments on mangago

Ok. Rape is a form of sexual abuse that happens when people have non consensual intercourse. Specifically, rape requires oral, anal or vaginal penetration: that someone (the victimizer/perpetrator) inserts his penis in an orifice of someone else's body, against his/her consent. Consent isn't only saying "yes, I want to have sex too", it's necessary that the consent is valid. If the victim has been forced or deceived in order to consume drugs, if the victim is forced with violence, or threatened with being hurt if he doesn't accept to have sex... Then the victim's "consent" isn't valid. Consent can be withhold in any moment, if someone wants to have sex and in the middle of it changes his/her mind and says no, and the other person continues, it becomes rape.

Now, in this case: Bum clearly has PTSD and other mental disorders, Stockholm syndrome, etc... He isn't mentally stable, so I believe he isn't able to give valid consent in such circumstances. Apart from this, he knows Sangwoo is a serial killer, he has been tortured and even used as a weapon/forced to commit crimes... So I would consider that even if Sangwoo doesn't have a gun in his hand, Bum knows he is being threatened to be harmed if he doesn't let him penetrate him. Plus, Sangwoo did slapped Bum before the sex, he is also manhandling Bum, so technically, Sangwoo is using physical threats to force sex. Finally, Bum "asked"/begged Sangwoo "let's go inside" various times, although he's afraid of upsetting Sangwoo, he is making clear with his words and gestures that he's not comfortable with having sex outside the house... In short, it is evident this is rape.

And i quote your comment "anyway- was it rape? not for me - painful? yes. " You change your mind so soon.

P.S: It's not my intention to insult anybody, nor to sound patronizing. I just don't believe this is one of those obscure cases were we could discuss how to label a crime. I'm confident any reasonable lawyer would consider this scene "rape". I tried to explained this in an easy way to understand.

i read the comment thanks for repeating it tho....

bum wants and wanted sangwoo since a long time ...he was rather disappointed when he found out back then that sangwoo only used the dildo... he s obsessed with sangwoo....
and especially that he said he likes him and that he seemed rather relaxed and didn t say no as soon they went inside the house - makes it for me personally not rape - he didn t feel comfortable doing it outside - that s how i see that

that bum is mentally ill is so clear ..not mentally stable - yes i know - but that he can t give valid consent is something i clearly disagree - remember the bathroom scene after sangwoo was singing on a stage? bum did basically beg that he can suck sangwoo off

bum knows what a sick mind and person sangwoo is - that he is a killer - and even when he could get out of it and sell sangwoo out - he didn t - he himself is saying he is scared of the police - the person who actually could help him and take him away from sangwoo

bum is in a total unhealthy way obsessed with sangwoo - he was his stalker long before - he fell in love with a picture of sangwoo - when he found out who sangwoo really is - he gets even more obsessed - he s hiding from the police officer - he had more than once the chance to get help from seungbae - he refused every single time - he choses sangwoo every..single..time... so yes i have a big problem to see it as rape and seeing bum only as victim - he is also a victim but not only - he s mentally sick - yes of course - but that still doesn t change the fact that he really wants to stay at sangwoos side no matter how good or bad sangwoo is - because he is crazily obsessed with sangwoo....

and only to make it clear - i don t think this is a healthy relationship nor do i think that it would be ok to let them be together in reallife - if they d be real persons sangwoo should go straight to hell and bum would need a hell lot of treatments - but - it s a manwha - one i enjoy and like and one i have no problem if a person is sick as hell and sticks to another sick as hell person no matter how unhealthy it is.

hey i saw this on the newsfeed and wanted to say that women can rape and that you can also rape someone with objects or other body parts. felt the need to say that. everything else from what I saw of your comment i agree with. havent actually read this lol

i didn t change my mind tho?

i m still saying it was no rape? i said i enjoy rape in mangas (from junjo romantica to omegaverse to i don t know what) but also why i don t think this here was "rape"

Really? Your comments:
"i only explained why in this case i really don t see is as rape "
"anyway- was it rape? not for me - painful? yes. "
I don't care if you see it as rape or not. Its your believe. I will not try to change it. It is not worth the effort, clearly.

yes - i said I don t see it (sorry typo) as rape
anywas - was it rape ? NOT for me - painful - yes
so where did i change my mind? i m still saying i don t see it as rape? that was my point from the first comment on? so?

The 'typo' as you so helpfully suggested would lead people to think otherwise, wouldn't it? So, nothing, you don't see it as rape.

Well, you are right: women can sexually abuse men too, and there are multiple forms of sexual harassment. I'm my country the crime called "rape" technically can only be committed by a man because it's written as an action someone does using his penis... If I'm not wrong when a woman forces a man to have sex it would be called a form of "sexual abuse" in the technical sense... But it's equally wrong an harmful as what we colloquially call "rape". I think must of people commonly use "rape" as a synonym of sexual abuse as a genre of sexual crimes. Oh and Thanks for mentioning that women can also commit sexual abuse! It's important to remember men can be victims too.

I would argue that the moment in the past that you're referring to, when Sangwoo used a dildo, that could maybe be considered sexual abuse too. That is a way more obscure case, and I don't want to discuss that.

I'm gonna repeat something I replied to an other comment because it's pertinent here: "When people are being sexually abused, especially if it's not the first time someone has suffered that, or if they feel threatened, they often stop saying "no", stop resisting, sometimes they even say "ok", because they're afraid of being physically hurt or raped with violence which would be dangerous and hurt even more... It's actually very common that victims of sexual abuse are in shock and can't defend themselves properly during the act."

Saying "yes" isn't synonym of giving consent to sex. Silence isn't consent. Consent has to be valid, which means the person has to make clear with his/her words and/or body language/gestures that the "yes" is honest, that that is a free decision. This is why if someone tells you, with a gun in your head, "I am going to kill you if you struggle, you have to let me fuck you" and the victim says "ok" or lets him fuck her/his... That consent wasn't valid. It was not free will.

If a 6 years old boy is being sexually abused by an adult relative, and the child 'seems" happy or participates "willingly" in the sexual activities because he's confusing them for affection or is confused, or afraid, etc.... That is not valid consent. A child isn't able to give consent to sex because he can't understand what is happening and make free informed responsible sexual decisions.... In a similar way, a mentally unstable person, if he/she doesn't have free will because of a trauma/or serious mental illness... Then he/she can not give valid consent to sex either.

Also, do you know that victims of sexual abuse sometimes get aroused and feel guilty or believe they were at fault because they got excited, but that's a physical reaction. It does not mean they gived consent. (For example, penises can become erect out of fear, for the adrenaline, not necessarily because "it feels good")


Honestly, Bum is bleeding and Sangwoo punched him before penetrating him.... I'll say this again: you are wrong about your reasoning/opinions.... THIS SCENE IS RAPE.

"sometimes they even say "ok", because they're afraid of being physically hurt or raped with violence which would be dangerous and hurt even more..."
We've actually seen Bum do that before. When Sangwoo gets violent Bum often tells Sangwoo he loves him to try to get him to stop hurting him. Bum did that during the dildo scene and after trying to escape.

And in adding further to the conditions of rape there's another point to be considered. People keep using Bum's prior sexual interactions with Sangwoo and his sexual attraction to Sangwoo as a reason he cannot be raped by Sangwoo. Consent to sex in the past is not consent to sex in the future. Consent must be given for every sexual interaction.

ok yes i know that very well - and again - bum wants to go inside - almost inmediately because he doesn t feel comfortable doing it outside - as soon they in the house - he lies down and says x times that he likes sangwoo - even tho sangwoo tells him to shut up - if bum would fear for his life or be scared in this very moment of sangwoo - wouldn t he shut the hell up the moment sangwoo tells him too? but he keeps telling him that he likes him

if saying "yes" isn t a synonym of giving consent to sex then we start to have a lil problem here ....giving up saying no at one point or being threated is another point of course...

"has to make it clear with his /her words and /or body language/gestures" - did you see that short moment he tried to hug sangwoo? - beside that his bodylanguage was - when they went inside the house - was pretty clear to me
he said twice no and the explaination for me was 1. hurts 2. its outside

the pain seemed to be gone away very quick (i don t think that d happen in real life tho ) , or he might was even more aroused because of the pain (little masochist?)
and as soon the location changed bum was apparently pretty confortable with the situation

i know that vicitims sometimes can get excited - and that it is a physical reaction - and also that they often feel guilty because of that - but bum seemed to enjoy it and is not getting aroused because of being scared or something


yes i know that children can t give a valid consent - we re not talking about a child we re talking about an adult men who is completely obsessed with a person and says so many times (even after all what sangwoo did to him) and wants to stay at the side of this brutal person. Bum is mentally ill ok - but i d say in his case he still can give valid consent - if he wants to

i don t see this as rape - because of the reason i explained

i also don t hate sangwoo nor bum - i try to understand their actions

and i enjoy reading this manwha

anyway - if you want to talk about real people - then i think the problem wouldn t be the sex - but more everything that happend before and that people in real life - is it bum or is it sangwoo need to be stopped and need a hell lot of help

btw i do understand your points and yes in other situations we might even think same but i can t apply all of this to bums situation because of many reasons

that bum is using i like or i love you as a surviving strategy seems to be wrong as well - because like i said - sangwoo tells him to shut up but he doesn t at all - if you re scared as shit from a person , and this person is hurting you and this person tells you to shut up - you d be scared as hell and try not to provoke him more so you d shut up -w ouldn t you?

anyway - i also know that you have to say yes everytime you have sex - and that just because you had sex in the past doesn t mean a yes for forever - i hope everyone knows that tho...

I think you didn't understand all my arguments. But it doesn't matter now, I don't want to impose my opinion. We disagree. I consider this scene rape. Because I consider Bum isn't in a mental condition that allows him to give consent with free will, because Sangwoo is threatening Bum and being violent in order to force him to accept sex, because Bum said "No" more than once yet Sangwoo penetrated him against his will... You believe Bum is not mentally stable enough to the point of not being able to make decisions about his sexuality, you believe Sangwoo wasn't physically and psychologically forcing Bum to have sex against his will, and that in this occasion Bun really was in his right mind, that he said "yes" with free will because he "loves" Sangwoo. We disagree. Let's leave it like that.

You believe Bum is not mentally UNstable ** enough

YES

i m saying bum is obsessed with sangwoo - doesn t necessarily have to be love
and yes i guess i really don t think that bum is mentally unstable enough to the point of not being able to make decisions about wanting to have sex or not - i think bum is pretty smart himself - or both or at least sangwoo would be in jail right now

he knows what kind of a person sangwoo is and yet he made the decision to stay with sangwoo - because yes - now it was a decision - he could get out of there - but he didn t want to - he was too scared and too attached to sangwoo to get away from him

and i never said that sangwoo wasn t forceful or rough . because he was - i just don t consider it rape because of the reasons i told you

i don t try to make something romantic out of this story so please stop saying so - it s rather annoying - i m just saying that bum seems to be ok with sex - it just first hurt - which was the first no - and then he didn t feel comfortable doing it outside - as soon those two facts changed - bum was completely ok with the sex so i can t agree that it was "rape"

But the thing is, Sangwoo has been responsive to Bum's admissions of love, even when he is very angry. Not only did that happen during the 2 scenes I mentioned in the previous comment but it also happened in chapters 2 and 3. When Bum was caught breaking in he told Sangwoo he loved him and Sangwoo decided not to kill him. In chapter 3 Sangwoo allowed Bum out of the basement after he told Sangwoo he loved him. It's a survival strategy that almost always results in Sangwoo being less violent.

I NEVER implied that you're trying to make something romantic out of this story. I said "love" in quotations because I understand you were saying Bum has an obsessive/unhealthy type of love towards Sangwoo. I wasn't even discussing the nature or morality of Sangwoo and Bum's relationship/dynamic. I was only explaining the reasons for which I consider the scene in last chapter should be considered "rape". I think most people who have knowledge about psychology and law would consider that rape. You disagree. It's totally fine, you can have your own opinion and I'll have my opinion. That's it.

Sangwoo is manipulating Bum, using Bum's feelings of fear, loneliness, and affection in order to make sure Bum does whatever he wants. Sangwoo uses deception (acting, telling Bum "we're boyfriends", etc), psychological and physical abuse to manipulate Bum's decisions and will. Bum can't deny him. His life is in danger, Sangwoo made him participate in his crimes, Bum can't say No to him without risking his life.

i disagree about the raping part - but i agree with a lot of other things that are stated here - anyway - i can't see it as rape- and i explained why - but to everyone their opinion about it - it s always interesting that people automatically think that i sure have no idea about law and/or psychology - just because i disagree about this special scene here now - anyway - right now i have to focus on something else - you can of course keep to discuss it, that is of course ok and i can't stop it anyway but i ll have to stop participating for a while - thanks anyway for everyone who participated and stated (peacefully) their opinions :)

I don't disagree with you on any of that, it's true Bum's life is in danger. Nevertheless Sangwoo does seem like(?) when Bum says he loves him or calls out his name.

i honestly think sangwoo does like bum - otherwise he d have killed him long ago - but he doesn t know how to love - he can t accept that he loves and can t believe that someone would love him (like the monster he is) - he s trying to give bum what bum wants and at the same time he has no idea how to show affection or love and how to handle this situation better than with this sick/brutal/agressive way of treating another person - he can t handle the "I love or i like you" it s too much for him - it torments him - because he wants to believe but he cant believe it - so it makes him confused and angry and maybe even scared but still he reacts on it

i honestly don t think he is a "bad" person - i think he doesn t know better and he needs help - a hell lot of help
so does bum...

They never even dated.That guy just manipulated the people around him and harming jihan to get his so called love

*harmed

yeah well true that - even tho it s possible that the "ex" did feel that they dated because jihan never really rejected him AT FIRST - so yeah..mh..xD

wah xD *scared* wah xDDD

i- i-i-if you re searching for the link - it s...its...its.. in the comments

muhihi xD (i m always too scared to post links here pffahahah) XD