Nitta's Topics (117)

Yay! I came here to re-read Yowamushi before reading the sequel. :)

Wait wait wait... Sequel?? Is it already in the manga? Where can i read this sequeeellllll??

yeah, when I read this manga I had absolutely no idea that Azuma would be an uke ╮(￣▽￣)╭

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/ore_no_kirai_na_senpai/

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I hope you are open to hear the disagreeing opinions since you said it was okay. Woojung is just not a good 'flawed' character.
My opinion is that Woojung is a flat, uninteresting character whose only quality is being a cute boy in a yaoi story so I am very, very glad the author didn't went the road most traveled of doing yet another 'unrequieted-love-childhood-friends-turn-love'. It has been done dozens of times and this would not have been any more interesting than any other. I'm not sure about love-hate relationship either since we usually call these when the lovers are enemies and this is not the case here.
Seohee and Woojung do exactly the same in this history: they disregard the feeling of other people in favor of theirs. Seohee manipulates Woojung feeling for her to get what she wants and Woojung passes along the manipulation --- without results because Jinwoo doesn't submit to Woojung emotional manipulation. Woojung is never showed to care about Jinwoo's feelings. He cares about his own wounds and the girl's feelings. To your question as 'He's selfish, he whines, but who doesn't?' ... lots of people, mostly adults don't act as Woojung does it.
More to the point, the flaws in Woojung are as cliche as the perfections of Sarang/Jinwoo so I can't relate to readers saying he is an interesting character because he is so uni dimentional in his flaws. A character gets qualified as 'flawed' and realistic when he has layers and Woojung has none. He whines, he is selfish and he acts way below his age. And he will go from this to better. This is not a developed layered flaw but a switch. To say that Woojung is flawed is to give a depth where there is none. Seohee has the same flaws as this man -- I doubt she is evil by nature. She is also lost and confused and blind by a love but since we don't care so much for this character, we assigned her no excuse for her behavior. Even if we got to know more of her, I doubt very much readers would be sympathetic to her because nobody really cares about a girl in a yaoi story.
Also, we tend to interpret and add things in the story in a way to fit our favorites. Your logic that the mother 'prioritized' Sarang sounds more like what Woojung would rationalize in his self centered and childish vision of what happened. I bet he thinks like that. And he is wrong. She didn't prioritize one son over the other, she saved one son from being bullied and from harm because her other son and his father couldn't accept him. Sarang was the more vulnerable son --- he was gay and was being mistreated by both father and brother at home. If Sarang was kicked out of the house alone, he would be all by himself and he could be harm and even end up with suicide so the mother did the best she could. To say that she left without even considering taking Woojung is not true. I am pretty sure the story demonstrate that the mother loved both sons -- we know she cried all this time over Woojung because it's on the story -- and would have been very happy if Woojung had gone with them. We see very clearly that Woojung was the one who rejected his brother, not the other way around so it makes no sense to say that it wasn't Woojung's choice not to leave with his mother --- because that would mean accept his brother. We see how Woojung repeats this behavior with his friend Jinwoo : he wants people to chose between supporting his brother or keep a connection with him. If they don't reject the brother, he cuts them off.
Of course he is no villain but he is selfish, self centered, a homophobe and someone very immature. Nobody doubts that there will be a redemption of this character but his flaws are not a quality over the non flaws of the other characters because they are both black and white characters in a story that doesn't add much grey in any of them.
People should ship who they want of course but the fact is that almost nobody does that without diminishing the other character and elevating their favorite. It's all about sharing opinions but once you share your opinion, you put it for debate.

You just pretty much said everything I had thought! (๑•ㅂ•)و✧

I respect your opinion but that is how you personally view Woojung's character. We haven't seen much of him so you can't say he's not a good flawed character or that he's flat because he has been barely developed and he has barely appeared in the chapters (We haven't dove deep into his thoughts yet or anything) and that's too bad because it would be nice to see him interacting with Sarang and Jinwoo and see how their relationship would progress for the better.

Woojung like him or not IS a realistic character and I'm looking forward to his development. I love Jinwoo and Sarang but they are just too good. Especially Jinwoo. I would like to see their backstories in the future.

Another thing is that not all adults aren't mature. It depends on the person itself. In fact, younger people may be more mature than adults in some cases.

As for the love-dislike thing I meant how Woojung would probably react if he was confessed by Jinwoo and how slowly they would regain their friendship and start as something more eventually. It would be a slow progression, and not the typical yaoi trope that you were talking about.

'Woojung like him or not IS a realistic character'
Woojung like him or not IS a cardboard-chiche character
Are these our opinions or facts? We are entitled to our opinions but certainly not our facts.
To argue that 'immature adults exist' as proof that Woojung is a realist opens the road that 'good and kind adults who behave correctly and according to their age' also exist and therefore Jinwoo/Sarang are just as realistic as Woojung.
This story is a very simplistic one and molded in Kdrama soap opera style. All these characters are in the same level of 'realistic' or same level of cliche/overplayed in their traits. It doesn't make sense for the author to add Jinwoo/Sarang doing 'bad' stuff if it's not relevant to the plot. Woojung does the asshole shit because that's his role on the drama. If he were kind, mature and reasonable, then we wouldn't have a story, right?
They are all flats and assigned to simple roles to fit an easy to follow drama. What is so unrealistic about Sarang or Jinwoo? That they are good? Hardly a argument for discarding character as unrealistic. One can argue that Sarang is in actually way more realistic that his drama-queen brother. After all, not all adults are mature but a man on his 20 that sounds like a stereotype girl in a yaoi story --- the whining, delusion and hysteria is not really something that common in real life but common in characters like Seohee, a stereotype yaoi girl that Woojung emulates in behavior. His scenes are played in a overreactive way that doesn't translate well if you imagine a man in flesh and blood. On the other hand, gay teenagers who are told from young age that they are worthless, filthy, wrong and treated with disgust by their own family may grow up with serious self esteem problems, turn to be a shy and non assertive person. Some may qualify this as flaws that make them real. The fact that he is kind and good and doesn't live in self pity like his brother doesn't make him less realistic. After all, there are people who are sweethearts, kind and end up being taken advantage like Sarang. And there are people who are wholesome good friends and act fair when asked unreasonable things from other people like Jinwoo.
You seem to equate being good with with not being realistic. Jinwoo is certainly the only 'perfect' character in this story but as weird as may sound, down-to-Earth stand up guys like him also exist so cast him aside as less realistic that Woojung just because one whines and it's selfish on his 20+ and Jinwoo acts more like his age doesn't make sense. Again, if a general statement as 'immature adults' exist is the fold for Woojung realism, then 'good and kind people exist as well' is the same argument for Jinwoo/Sarang. The point is that this story has cardboard characters in a soap opera so both Jinwoo/Sarang and Woojung are assigned traits that will move the plot forward. Woojung being a selfish ass to his brother and friend is not so much because he represents a realistic person --- God knows you not everyone is a selfish immature person that acts like he does but because he is the side character who needs to add this portion to the plot. The same way, Sarang/Jinwoo not being shown doing bad stuff is not indicative that they are less realistic but because the story needs to move forwards and adding Jinwoo picking up his nose or cursing so people think he is not perfect doesn't make much sense. Overall, Jinwoo/Sarang are kind and more mature and Woojung a self centered immature one and both exists in real world.
And if you dislike Jinwoo too for being too good -- a Gary Stu as you say, it's then even better that Woojung is not paired with him? Another flawed character like Seohee and Eungi would make for a better match since they are the more 'real' people (since people with bad traits equals to realistic).
Woojung is a side character in this story so it makes sense that the author shows what is relevant for his role in the drama. I am sure the author will include the interactions with Jinwoo and Sarang that will build his redemption from homophobe to acceptance.

From determinism point od view theoretically everyone has the right to be as they are. World is fuck up place without any delusion of justice.
Aaaand:
For me every character of this story is rather flat and unconvincing.
But I get the author of the post. Of course more realistic are characters who have some flaws. Jinwoo is too idolised. I myself dont know people as Jinwoo in real life but immature children as Woojung Ive met plenty. Also what interesting gonna happen with main couple? more dates,more sex,fluffy scenes and that's it (or drama on the level spoilers i saw my bf kissed by random girl and i ran away and cried and cried and cried).
Tbh im most interested what author gonna do with Sarang's ex. And how she gonna redempt Woojung and maybe Seohee. I hope in not some ultra dramatic and cliche way.
But its yaoi so I think these threads wont get too much space.
We also know how this story gonna end. Rainbowish,boring happy ending with reunions, tears etc.
I hope that author will suprise but its highly unlikely.
I seriously am awed that you have the strengh to write these long messeges.

From the very beginning, JinwooxWoojung seemed impossible. Aside from Woojung being homophobic(I'm not so sure) he actually really liked Seohee, I think.

Oh, but I actually thought it would be JinwooxWoojung at first pages of chapter 1. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

When did I say I don't like Jinwoo? I like all characters, I don't even get the hate towards Seohee because I don't hate her personally. Also I wasn't stating it as a fact I meant wether you like Woojung AS A CHARACTER or dislike him, he's realistic because of his traits even if they are negative. It"s like you're dead set on proving me wrong even though I was simply sharing my opinion from the start.

And I think qualifying this as a soap opera yaoi is a bit too much. It's not even that dramatic and it"s of good quality. The characters may not be the best written out there but they are pretty likeable and not necessarily flat. I think the author should work a bit on their backstories to make them more well-rounded.

By the way it would be much easier to read your comment if you added spaces between paragraphs ^^"

same. i did ship them at one point and was hoping for some type of character development for woojung. i agree with all of this aside from how he treats his brother. i get the sadness part and he copes with anger but he should imagine how sarang feels. before jinwoo, the only person he was able to lean on was his mother. he didn’t have friends and his boyfriend was cheating on him. BUT I STILL AGREE WITH YOU, don’t get me wrong.

I wasn't justifying him though. I was just explaining things from his perspective but yeah Woojung is a total ass with his brother and he needs to make up for all the pain he has caused Sarang.

i didn’t think you were. you’re just saying what you feel from your perspective.

ofc, nao already has his gf. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

Yeah but it have been the usual love triangle. Nao stops liking his gf for some reason and starts pursuing Chika as well and they fight over him but end up having a threesome (?) I've read a lot like those so this is kind of refreshing.

*It could have been

LOL

But the real question is, is he always thinking about fucking Nam? Like, how can he focus on other things (i.e. work, 'non-sexual thoughts?')?

Manga logic, lol. Let's just be thankful he has such an active imagination ;)

Ronfl

Incredibly active, indeed...

His thoughts about trying to remember what day the recycling collection is, and what food needs to be used up before it goes out of date wouldn't really be relevant though, ha.

He was thinking about doing him even when the director was speaking to them ._.. That guy has an incredible self-control.

Yeah, he is obsessed to say the least. I think in later chapters there is more on his backstory which hopefully will present him as a more rounded character.

I'm suspecting that he's an idiot to the point of obliviousness. In one of the first chapter, I think the second, he's talking about himself and his life. When speaking about Nam, he doesn't say that he loves him, but that he finds him entertaining. Why? He already admitted some not so nice details about his life, so I don't see why hiding the fact that he's utterly obsessed with Nam. Unless, of course, Ma hasn't realised yet what are his real feelings for Nam.

He realizes it in a way, in later chapters we see flashbacks of their highschool days when Sangtae was completely smitten with Jinwoo. The whole obsession thing starts as a "notice me sempai" scenario...
It would be embarassing to admit he's been hopelessly doing everything to be this straight man's number one preoccupation. He's fine admitting how crazy he is but might not want to come off as lame.



More spoilers (beware): as soon as he learns about the fantasy sharing, he gropes Jinwoo fondly, which is more a sign of lust than mere teasing. Then he swings between molesting Jinwoo and acting sincerely apologetic depending on his mood / Jinwoo's reactions.
I think he knows it's love, a messed up "I love you most when you cringe" thing.

That's an interesting explanation. I had never thought it that way, I mean that he might be fine with admitting to being insane, but not a man who's head over heels over a straight guy who despises him. It totally makes sense. That must hurt his ego and yeah, also his feelings.

I took a look at the raws and I have to say that Ma is definitely trying to make the best out of this situation *face palm*. Do you think they had sex in chap. 10 and 12? It seemed so, but I'm not entirely sure.

she already did! scroll through sensei's twitter and you'll see the postings of Azuma's spinoff. 1st chapter already came out i think. https://twitter.com/haru45moto

Mm yes ☻ lol
I hope someone scanlates it soon :^c

but this time the little uke is equipped with lightning and thunder ╮(￣▽￣)╭

Happens everyday