your armpit aint safe from me's Topics (86)

HELP?? YKUR NAME

no one helping you

with me around

Oh hell no I'm gonna fart on your face... GET THAT PINK EYE IM OUT OF HERE

go ahead.. threaten me with a good time ;)

imma sniff that fart outta you lil bro

??

it was a joke^^ in case you missed it

k

Agreed 100% and Emilia also made the same statement

Fr

Agreed! unfortunately some people are not mature enough to understand that *sigh

"He was broken so he made her fall in love in desguise, betrayed her and killed her whole family, kidnapped her, psychologically tortured her and led her to suicide, but they grew together so you have to understand. Grow up and be mature :c "

It's disguise btw. And he never was in disguise. She knew he was a soldier for her father. She just didn't know he was a child slave soldier. He never kidnapped her either. Nor did they grow up together. Starting to feel like you haven't actually been paying attention

Love is messy, and in the midst of war, esp that of an aristocratic girl who's never experienced hardship and a boy who was tortured for 20 years.
Yes he did fucked up shit, he absolutely deserves to be criticized for that. But nuance is incredibly important in a story like this.
They also didn't grow together. They grew as individuals. They separated and healed and grew on their own.
This actually exactly what we want them to do. Otherwise it's just trauma bonding and codependency

If you want a cookie cutter story there are thousands to choose from.
But this has been a story meant to have nuance and it's been obvious since the beginning.

Bro. He really did fuck shit up. And he was wrong for that. What I wanted to convey was how people like you dont even bother UNDERSTANDING the characters. You guys like depth and drown when given it, he IS complicated. So complicated he made her suffer for every day of her life. It's so beautifully written how they both faced and overcame tragedy, but SOME PEOPLE ruin it by not diving deeper and giving two darns in ACTUALLY READING THE STORY and mumble shit about not wanting how it ended.

Replying to me with ts is like saying I was disregarding shit he did because he was hurt, NO. I would never EVER indicate that. He was wrong for doing that. Nobody should ever go through what the fl went through. And the same goes for him. It's two sides of the same coin, got it? they both didnt deserve the fuckass situation they went through.

But they already did, and THEM growing out of it and outgrowing their selves was a huge fucking accomplishment and they deserve to be happy.

"you guys like depth then drown when you're given it"
holy shit you flamed them lmao

Nah, there are somethings that are not to be forgiven. Had she been succesfull in her suicide, would you say he DESERVES to be happy because he grew and eventually regretted? The only reason she even is alive is because of luck. Anyone that corners a person through psychological torture is literally unforgivable and DESERVES nothing. Wether they eventually are at peace with themselves is on them, but not because they deserve it. Accomplishing not having killed his loved one and feeling bad for almost doing so is not something that makes him deserving of happiness.

Not because we saw his arc and empathise with him and his past means we should see him through anything more than the dark reality of a vicious abuser. Imagine this in real life with any man that did the things he did, specifically to his lover, and dare to say he deserves to be happy because he let her go and said sorry after she failed at killing herself.

You need to understand that understanding the reasoning behind evil does not mean it stops being evil, or DESERVES to be seen as just part of a journey to be forgiven. Victims becoming abusers is a real thing, and they need to be punished for the cruelty they commit.

"he never was in disguise. She knew he was a soldier for her father." -He met her, made her fall in love and married her in order to facilitate a coup d'estat, that is literally disguising himself to the max so this is stupid af. Not putting on a costume means he is not disguising.
"She just didn't know he was a child slave soldier." Irrelevant, just the coup d'etat in course was important at this point, not his boography.

"He never kidnapped her either." -He refused to kill her as should be the case to all relatives of the head of estate during a coup d'estat, and didn't send her to jail or labor camp but kept her by her side to torture her emotionally. He literally admits he kept her for selfishness in his love/hate mindset. What term would you like to use, then? Forced entramptment for torture?

"Nor did they grow up together."- You gotta be kidding, you do know "growing up" references maturity, right? The way the comment you first responded to meant it.

"Starting to feel like you haven't actually been paying attention" - Sis with this parragraph alone I'm not even reading the rest. You need to learn to read both the comic and my comment.

You're right he was an absolute trash, driving her to death. And probably not even deserving of the fl's love, an abuser, if you must. His love was twisted and in many ways leads to a destructive relationship.

And that was why they separated and left the hellhole they both got stuck in.

As for your question, we also have to ask ourselves, if he died while being tortured senseless, did he deserve it? did he deserve being beaten and raised to kill? did he deserve being used as a weapon? And most of all, does he deserve to be happy?

No one could afford to live a healthy life after living like that. Now, let me ask you a question, if you had been on his shoes, day and night devoid of peace, even in dreams you cannot escape madness, could you guarantee you would not have deteriorated as worse as he did?

What he did to her WAS UNFORGIVABLE.

She became his salvation because he knew nothing else. And because he didnt know better, he DESTROYED HER.

And they both saw that.

We hold him accountable for doing shit just like we would an unstable person commiting murder. We don't kill them because we know they arent in their right mind, we take them to psych wards.

Amidst his twisted nature he truly did love her. We cannot remove that, granted his love became tainted. And we see the development of that when he was willing to give up seeing her happy, to which she responded by going after him because she knew he loved her, he just didnt know how to.

p. s: I absofuckinlutely love you for what you replied omg!!

AND IM NOT JOKING like what you said SHOOK ME girllll i love you i even questioned myself if i was just romanticizing torture because they got a happy ending in the end

happy ending* sorry ahhh remove the "in the end"

He married her bc he loved her lmao. He didn't do it for the coup. He decided to do that separately. He met her by chance as a child, he didn't seek her out. He discovered her and fell in love with an idea of her and happiness. He clung to it as a broken tortured child and it eventually became a twisted hope for him.
Ofc he wasn't go to go about it right, or know how to be healthy in a relationship.
Especially since the war and those in charge that used him are still in charge.
And ofc considering the hell he escaped was his relationship with her going to fracture.
He still saw her as this golden figure, incapable of anything other than being happy and pretty. And because of that unresolved trauma the love begins to sour with jealousy and pain.

He couldn't kill her bc he loved her. Yes he wanted to keep her alive to hurt her but it was because he still loved her.

I also literally mentioned in my comment that they didn't grow together they grew individually. By themselves, away from each other. You seem to only be nitpicking my comment to things that are easier for you to shoot down lmao.
It is also incredibly important to the plot that she doesn't know until way after the divorce he was a child soldier. Bc it emphasizes they both are people who are struggling and aren't good at communicating. It is a huge turning point in their relationship that he bares all and shows her who he was and is. She finally gets to see the true him, scars and all, so she can truly look at him, talk to him and decide how their relationship will proceed.
That scene is one of the MOST IMPORTANT ones!!!

Nowhere did I say that it is excusable or that this is a "good" love story. It's meant to have nuance. It's literally about war. And the people who suffer under it.

Also paragraph only has 2 r's not 3.

I think ppl unfortunately forget this is fiction. Ofc he should go to jail irl. But this is a story. It's intended to say how would two people going through this still find their way back to each other. And how would they do that in a way that helps them grow as people

FRRR!! i really enjoy stories like these because it sparks up debates, and thats when u know the author did a good job. The story's really great, and ithink you're right about what you said, at the end of the day this is a story and it's supposed to reach a conclusion whether or not we like the results.

Same!! I love dark romance and stories of people that feel real.
I love a story like this where it shows people suffering and doing the worst and then says ok how do we fix this.
There's so many that try this and never do it right. This author has done a beautiful job of not shying away from the things he did but still showing he's a person capable of growth.
It doesn't excuse but it does help him as a person for their future as people and a couple

"As for your question, we also have to ask ourselves, if he died while being tortured senseless, did he deserve it? did he deserve being beaten and raised to kill? did he deserve being used as a weapon? And most of all, does he deserve to be happy?"

The thing is, no one has said he deseved cruelty or death when he was a child. Nor when he was a soldier. Not even for doing the coup. He and all his soldiers deserved the freedom and happiness he was robbed of by the royal and their supporters, and by his own hand he took action and killed all those that opressed him.

Things took a turn when he then selfishly took a woman whose only sin was ignorance and tortured her into suicide, against any tradition of coup d'etat, against the advice of his team, and against the wishes of her. That's why no matter how much nuisance he has, how much he regretted and how much he changed, he does not suddenly deserve forgiveness or hapiness, as he literally was never punished by anything but his conscience.

Just imagine if the story decided that his old partner, the red-head desertor, whose background is literally the same and had the same desire to have a normal happy life after the war, was to be forgiven for his evil desicion to burn the Church full of innocents just because he felt regret after the fact. No jail, no punishment, just his consciense. It could be claimed that he is just as insane as ML was, so does he now deserve to be happy? No he doesn't, mental illness, past trauma, even being a victim doesn't absolve you from the evil you do. He was not sent to a psych ward, nor any of his fellow soldiers, he went straight to jail. Or what, ML should be given a pass because he did it out of a twisted love? May I remind you that he had already put a ring on her, he had already trapped her at his house, he was the only ally she had and the only person she tried to rely on even after the massacre of her family and feeling guilty for being her daughter, yet he tortured her, and that was not done out of love, it was done out of hatred of her ignorance regarding the actions of her family, and he fucking knew it all along and still went and broke her.

It's not like people don't UNDERSTAND, we understand and he doesn't deserve a pass just because love and trauma.

The funny thing is that I'm not even upset with the story and how it unfolded, it makes sense basically a King would never be punished for doing whatever he wanted to a member of the old regime he destroyed, he could've raped and killed her no one would've batted an eye. Even MC forgiving him is understandable as it is her personal journey to deal with all the things that had happened and her abundant love and pity.

It's people pretending that he should be given a pass on torturing an innocent because love or trauma that pisses me off.

I also love theses stories, but damn if people get blinded by romance, fictional or not, in weird ways.

"He married her bc he loved her lmao. He didn't do it for the coup. He decided to do that separately." - Except he didn't. He had a crush and idealised her to the extreme, but he ultimately only entertained her for his goals. Being in love (and hatred) was an extra of his plan, as shown by the way he ultimately treated her when the coup was succesfull. His hatred was bigger than his love. He did not know the way to love her, but he willingly decided to torture her, and he more than anyone could recognize the pain was in and still kept going even after she tried to kill herself. Loving her is just the reson, which EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS, but it never was, is or will be an excuse to forgive him.

"I also literally mentioned in my comment that they didn't grow together they grew individually. By themselves, away from each other. You seem to only be nitpicking my comment to things that are easier for you to shoot down lmao" read the only paragraph I responded of yours. You are the one that brought up the meaning of growing up in childhood as I never once said anything of the sort. I was responding to the main comment where the word is used as "mature", so it's not exactly nitpicking when you were the one confused. Responding to your arguments one by one is not nitpicking, it's staying on the topic of the disagreement.

"It is also incredibly important to the plot that she doesn't know until way after the divorce he was a child soldier. Bc it emphasizes they both are people who are struggling and aren't good at communicating. It is a huge turning point in their relationship that he bares all and shows her who he was and is." GIRL. THAT'S. THE. POINT. He was NEVER genuine with her when he honey trapped her. The point of grievance was that he did it to advance his coup, so he disguised himself as a considerate loyal soldier and hid everything about himself including that, but the main part of the disguise was to use her!! That's the topic we were talking about. I never said it wasn't important, or that it was filler to the plot. It was beyond the point of you saying that he didn't disguised himself when he obviously did!

"Nowhere did I say that it is excusable or that this is a "good" love story. It's meant to have nuance. It's literally about war. And the people who suffer under it." And nowhere did I say it isn't. But EXCUSING evil just because you understand how it came to be is crazy.

Literally no one said he should get a pass. Everyone is saying that he deserves the chance to heal and if she chooses to keep him around he has the opportunity to be better to her.
You're just assuming bc we're saying that we're saying what he did before doesn't matter. When we're saying is bc of what he did before and what he's doing now he deserves a chance at happiness.
As does everyone who experienced something horrible and it led them down a dark path before finding the right path.

Are you fighting ppl over something you made up??

No way you think we're excusing it. No one is doing that. Literally no one.
Again, the coup and him marrying her were just two things that worked out together.
His goal for most of his life until they got married was just to be with her. She was his only goal and reason to be alive. He didn't care about the coup until around they were married. He just wanted her.

You genuinely have been missing key story points no wonder you're so uppity about this shit. Chill out kid.
He didn't hide behind a good solider facade, he was literally apart of a child solider program that was hidden by that current government. According to the public at that time the child soldiers didn't exist. It's actually her father's fault he had to hide that stuff. He also didn't tell her for personal reasons bc he didn't want to burden her with his trauma. That's why he didn't ever let her see him undressed either.

You're acting like he was rubbing his hands together coming up with a cover story to get into a fake marriage just for the coup. Which just didn't happen. He couldn't have been honest with her then even if he wanted to.

You need to reread from the beginning for sure. And maybe not get so heated over a fictional story or the people who are enjoying the story

Hey so all of us here are enjoying the nuance. You have this thread of mostly you going off on people enjoying the nuance.
It seems to be you that is being weird about this. Perhaps you should switch to a different genre

I understand your point more clearly now, and I agree. He really does not deserve a pass, what he did was wrong and indecent. And especially doing her dirty like that. His past should be an explanation, but never a free pass for him to torture other people.

Maybe I found the thought of him being punished for what he did because he grew up on an environment that didn't introduce to him the proper way of loving somebody despite of already going through hellish torture too cruel. I believed it would be proper for him to attain freedom after being in shackles for so long. I aimed for his happiness because no one deserved that fuckass treatment, but mc also didn't deserve that kind of love, you're right.

I wanted people to look through him so much so they would put themselves in his shoe and experience what he's gone through, but I never wanted people to discard what he did.

Though I still think he deserves happiness (shi if that were me i woulds gave up ASAP,) I also agree that he should not get unpunished for what he did to her.

Thank you so much! I loved talking to youuu, also I'd like to apologize because I implicated you werent reading it, you clearly did. We just have different opinions, and I like you for voicing out yours, it gives me a good idea of the perspectives of others. You verbalized your points very well.

yes this is my point too, thank you for conveying it well. I believe people should have be given a chance to live their life better than what they went through, especially the two of them :D

Yw! You've done a good job explaining as well.
I think this person is wanting something to happen to punish him but his whole life Has been that punishment in a sense. He has suffered and now his further "punishment" is to grow and be better.
People are fucked up and fuck up often. Looking at this through a modern lense also leaves people looking at things through our view of morality. And yes what he did was morally disgusting and in our reality he should face legal justice but this is fiction and we know his inner mind and his past. He deserves to have a sense of peace so he can heal and atone for his mistakes.
Like this is set in what we'd know as early 20th century. Shit was rough and war was common. This is a really good example of a wartime love story. From the interesting perspective of a girl who was born into privilege and a child solider turned revolutionary. Cuz he literally led the revolution to end aristocratic reign. He did a crazy good thing when doing that. In the eyes of the public he's a saint for changing the world.

Omg!! thank you so much, I think you did well creating boundaries of how different stories are from real life, and I am astonished by that. You've given me another point to believe. Ever since I first read, I was always fascinated at how the characters were written, their suffering was evident, and that's why from the start, I wanted nothing but for them to have a happy end because of what they went through.

I am very satisfied with how things are looking, I believe they both deserve an environment wherein they grow and give themselves the privilege deprived of them from the early chapters.

Especially when it comes to ml because the stuff he did was all he knew, and no one really provided him with a solid ground to stand on and a safe place to be in(but of course he was wrong for treating my glorious queen like that). With your comments I really feel seen with what I felt and the empathy I poured

I even started questioning if it was right to feel like that because of how solid the other one's replies are, but at the end of the day, my opinions are mine to keep. I love having sympathy. I still stand for them to grow, heal, and be happy. No one really deserves the kind of shit destiny put them through

Not sure how old the other person is by they come across as young and want everything to be just and fair. Which is an understandable feeling and as someone who has experienced hardships in childhood I understand the "no he did bad, he's bad and only bad should happen".
And in most other stories now that's how it works. Bad guys get bad things, everyone is very one dimensional and things get wrapped up perfectly.
This has just not been one of those stories since the beginning.
And I absolutely agree, I think it's really wonderful to see through fiction how people can grow from horrible things.
I'm actually really happy with how Heiner has grown too. He didn't cling to her, he kept her in his heart but he gave her a lot of space and took the time to start healing. He's definitely got years to go to really heal but wow he's done amazing even considering he's still been leading a country through war

"Everyone is saying that he deserves the chance to heal and if she chooses to keep him around he has the opportunity to be better to her.
You're just assuming bc we're saying that we're saying what he did before doesn't matter. When we're saying is bc of what he did before and what he's doing now he deserves a chance at happiness." - That's literally giving a pass. That's literally everything YOU specifically in your replies, to a lesser extent the other commentor has been saying. I don't know what about my point is not coming across with you saying giving a second chance after doing something unforgivable is not "giving a pass". Again, if you haven't gotten the point after all this comments. HE DESERVES NOTHING BUT PUNISHMENT. NOT A SECOND CHANCE, NOT A FORGIVENESS, NOT EVEN FREEDOM TO HEAL. The MC gives him a second chance not because he "deserves" it, but because that's the best way for her to reconcile her guilt for the atrocities that happened behind her back, the love she felt when he fooled the shit out of her, and the pity and friendship (platonic or romantic, up to the open ending) she feels when he finally let her go, regretted torturing her and talked to her like a human being. The world owes nothing to that man.

"As does everyone who experienced something horrible and it led them down a dark path before finding the right path." - This is not a generalisation of just "the dark path", he is not as relatable as you want him to be. We're talking specifics here: fool a woman you love into marrying you hiding yourself and the intention to absolutelt ruin her, massacre her family in a coup, keep her alive without any support apart from you because you love her too much to put her out of her misery, but hate her so much for the sin of ignorance you corner her into suicide. If you or anyone you know goes anywhere near this absolutely mind-blowing "dark path" to this extent, that person does not deserve a pass. Maybe this is why you keep on giving him a pass though, you cannot comprehend that relating to an ambiguos error is not applicable to all the evil he chose to do. You just generalise everything when you should talk specifics, the same way you though it was "nitpicking" when I responded each of your arguments by literally quoting each sentence.


"Are you fighting ppl over something you made up??" -Kid, just look at the way you are trying to say the ML deserves a second chance because he is regretfull, minimizing all his evil deeds into a "dark path" anyone could follow, saying you're not excusing him while going on and on about how he had no way to know not to torture another mentally the same way he was tortured before.

There's literally no point talking to you, it's a wall. At least the other commentor understands what the hell my point was, you jump all over the place oblivious to it. Not gonna respond anymore since this is going nowhere, but I advice you to be more "nitpicky", both on your arguments and your opposer's, or all your debates are gonna end up like this with no end.

It's funny that you don't realise you are responding to comments of other conversations way beyond (and deeper than) your arguments.

Talking to you is literally talking to a wall, yet it is I who is fighting over something I made up? No point in responding any further to you.

Like them, you really pretending "giving a pass" is not a synonym of "second chance" without punishement. You're wild.

Nah that's fine. Though I advice you to read things more critically and not, well, like you write. You're not enjoying the nuisance when you cannot even comprehend how he doesn't deserve a second chance.

Holy shit a wall of nothing, never thought it could be done. Congratulations. None of that even deserves a response considering how me and the og commenter literally agree and are saying the same thing.
You just want an argument for some reason and are purposely finding a way to argue with everyone lmao
No one is "minimizing" anything
People are allowed to grow and change.
Especially IN A WORK OF FICTION LMAO
Neither of them are ignoring what they went through, what he did. If she was she wouldn't have moved away, she would have adopted the kid, she would have kissed him or stayed by his side. The only thing she did was send him letters and he refused to reply until the war was over. He even walked away when he thought she moved on. You have definitely not been paying attention. Your analysis comes across like you're hate reading and ignoring the details that show growth.

Don't call me kid cuz I guarantee I'm older than you lmao.
Also arguments are not meant to end in winners. We could have had a good discussion about nuance but you started with a comment that was straight up making fun of and being spiteful to the original comment. You have no real moral leg to stand on here lmao. You misunderstood what the original comment said, what I have said and what most of the replies and other comments have said.
You are fighting an imaginary enemy and you're losing while waving a victory flag for some dumb reason. Once your brain fully develops you'll be able to understand this lol.

And yes people do deserve second chances and grace. Even if they have done something terrible, because not everyone is blessed with a good childhood or being able to make good choices. People make dumb irreversible mistakes. That's life. When you grow up you'll understand.
I have been in mental hospitals and met ex skinheads that ran in gangs turn their entire life around and become the kindest and most thoughtful men. Battling drug addiction and life of racist indoctrination and still fight to be good people.
I personally suffered through extreme childhood abuse in ways that should have killed me or broke my mind. For most of my 20s I was incredibly lost and in abusive relationships that made me a version of myself that was destructive to those in my life.

Do I not deserve the space to grow? To know love and realize I am deserving of it despite what I've been through and what I've done?
Ofc I do, in the same way you do as well.
You must step out of the black and white view you're stuck in. People can't be split into two categories. We are all full of good and evil and nuance.
Also just to remind you, this is literally a story. It's not real, Heiner is not going to jump from the page and attack you if you don't say he deserves love. It's not real so it doesn't matter lmao.

*nuance kid. Nuisance is what you are lmao.

Also umm you actually can't enjoy nuance if you insist the story has to end a specific way. I'm ok if they don't end up together. And im ok if they do.

clocked it girl omg!!! I am so greatful there are people like you in the world. If we all had the mindset of "if they did something wrong, eliminate them" all the time, then we would all have been seriously fucked up.

Same to you!! Hopefully this kid wakes up and realizes how dumb their argument was here. Hope they grow from this

Not everyone is and if you think they are being weird, just ignore and move on. They are people who are just passionate about it and are not defending what is to them a shitty aspect of a story it’s that simple. It doesn’t take much at all or long at all to type ┑(￣Д ￣)┍

XD