Nightwave's Topics (363)

for real. its heteronormative gender roles just forced on any and all gay relationships. （￣へ￣）

Thank you for saying, i always keep seeing it on every shounen ai manga i read and ITS SO ANNOYING-

YES THANK YOU IT ANNOYS THE FUK OUTTA ME. Especially when they just assume and label in shonen-ai where there’s 0 indication (unlike this one) it’s so weird and gross

What’s with the dislikes, your 100% correct

Chill man, this is just a manga, I don't see a problem with the fujoDANSHIS do this, cause men and non binary people like to choose and guess the roles too, not only woman, and I think it's safe to say great part of the readers AND the creators are lgbtq+ come on, I read and produce BL for 14 years now and count on the fingers ow my hand the hetero women who likes BL, or have see situations of fetishization of REAL people.
I have see this type of comments a lot in all manga I read now and think it's really bad, cause it's censoring people to enjoy FICTION the way them like.

If you think manga and overall fictional media don't affect people in real life you're delusional. There are countless of examples about TV series, movies, comics and other media just feeding into stereotypes and contributing to people normalizing that, in this case, gender roles. I'm even grateful these two look like actual adults because so many bottoms are drawn as underdeveloped children despite being 25+ and the tops sometimes even say "they almost look like women". As someone who's gay, I can't tell you how many times someone has assumed stuff about me and other friends.

And most readers are cishet women, it's even recognized in Japan and it's a justified stereotype. If you happened to find a more diverse community, you're an exception. I've been reading manga for 15 years (of numerous genres) and in BL I even scanlated.

I always imagine that they are all reversible behind the scenes ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~.

Technically most bl protagonists aren’t gay or bi anyway, so it’s not like these criticisms apply

They just don't accept it. You like more than one gender? You're bi. Some japanese friends told me there's still some issues with recognizing bisexuality there, so I'm not surprised other close countries have the same issues, and you can see that in their media.
"But, you're straight"
"I don't date straight men"
Dude he's not straight, and if he leaves you for a woman he's just an asshole >.>

Gay and bisexual characters have been present in BL for at least 3 decades now, of course Japanese authors know they exist, but that is NOT why most bl protagonist identify as straight. Because the moment a character identifies as gay or bi it means other men become a possibility, which makes the love for his partner that less special. The reason characters are and REMAIN straight with one exception is to signify just how powerful their love is for their partner that they can overcome their heterosexuality for just this ONE person.

Telling a bl mangaka that their straight protagonist can be sexually attracted to other men because gay and bi people exist is like telling a romance author her protagonists don’t have to be virgins before meeting their one true love because birth control is a thing.

What I’m trying to say is most people just don’t understand why these tropes are present. They are there to make the love interest special, not to reflect reality.

But that's just so wrong. If you like women and suddenly you like a man, you definitely aren't straight. It's annoying how everytime this happens in a manga they always have problems because the guy who was straight now "turned"gay and so the other one gets all mad and insecure because he can have a nice life and he can actually like women and marry blah blah. And this kind of thing doesn't make their love special, it's just annoying. Their love is always gonna be special no matter what. There's also a lot of stories where they both accept themselves as who they are and that doesn't make them ordinary. So that kind of mentality should change fr.

Do you know ANYONE in the japanese LGBT+ community? It's not as easy as you make it seem and it's also not as if all mangaka wants to follow that narrative. LGBT mangaka have also made it clear they want more inclusion so there are some that are including Bi people, nonbinary people, even agender and asexual characters.

And holy SHIT, I'm sorry, but what a way to be dense. First of all, as someone who dated bi men, I won't ever feel safe if I'm the ""exception"" and my partner refuses to get out of the closet. I'm pretty sure you don't know gay people irl or have interacted in the community to know how toxic that is. Second, virginity has nothing to do with anything, that's a choice, being queer is not.

Also, do you read 90s manga or something? In most romance stories nowadays virginity isn't mentioned, or they're both virgins, or they aren't. There's no insistence of that being detrimental to the plot, yet in BL it's all "I didn't think you'd like me because you ARE straight". Well luv he likes you, he ain't straight. That's why characters who are like "if that makes me gay so be it" are the best.

It's very slowly changing. More and more younger japanese people (don't know about Korea, and in China it's complicated and LGBT content is heavily controlled) are saying they agree with queer relationships and gay marriage, so we won't see much of these "oh he'll dump me for a woman because I can't give him happiness" drama. It happens irl, yes, but it's not so common to the point it needs to be mentioned in 80% of BL. We want happy endings too c'mon.

Whether you like this type of storytelling or not is up to you, I’m just trying to explain to you why it’s there. A lot of recent bl have started to feature more openly gay protagonists, but do keep in mind that most bl mangakas were never interested in presenting an accurate portrayal of gay relationships.

1. I don’t know any in the Japanese lgbt community and it doesn’t matter. Most bl authors and readers are straight women anyway.
2. I never said all mangaka wanted to follow this “only you” narrative, I only gave the reason for why it’s used.
3. Your personal dating experience with bi people is irrelevant when discussing the intent of the author’s.
4. I’m gay actually, not that it matters or that you care.
5. Virginity and straightness serve the same function in their respective stories: they are meant to signify to the readers that the character has been kept ‘pure’, until they’ve met their love interest. Virginity as a sign of purity is a universal storytelling tool found across every culture.
6. The highest selling romance novel (and highest selling novel period) of the 2010’s was 50 Shades of Grey and despite being about bdsm, the female protagonist is a virgin when she meets her love interest. Same with the best-selling Twilight series before it, the female lead has sex for the first time on her wedding night. It’s still a very popular trope.

If straight women are gonna write a story about a gay couple they should at least do it right omg.

I was talking strictly about manga, I give zero fucks about 59 shades.

And yeah, I don't care if you're gay, I am too. A lot of us like reading BL but actively look for the ones which follow the least amount of gender stereotypes. If you like these, good, make your own comment then.

Oops, it was 50 not 59

Exactly. Straight fujoshi tend to fetishize gay men a LOT and/or get a narrow idea of how homosexuality works. I don't think it'd hurt cishet women soooo much to make characters more varied.

Good thing these characters aren’t gay then, they’re straight with one exemption

“ I was talking strictly about manga”
I know, which is why in my initial comment I wrote “romance author”, not “romance mangaka”. And the point still stands, virginity is still a common trope among fictive romance stories, the best-selling romance of the last 10 years in fact.

“A lot of us like reading BL but actively look for the ones which follow the least amount of gender stereotypes.”
And that’s fine, I’ll even recommend you some. But there is a huge difference between reading what you like, and demanding authors cater to your particular taste

Ha-neul in Korean means "Sky". Hyunwoon means "Cirrus". Like, y'know, cirrus clouds. They're quite literal translations and they chose to translate them since the name of the Manhwa is "Lost in the Cloud." There's a theme here. If they'd left the names untranslated, they would be lost in translation. That being said, I much prefer the Korean names.

Bro lmfao I kid u not I read one with “Adolf” nooooo

Well yeah I know right I laughed when a name became Remington lol

wait till you hear abt dick maximillian and ben dover

I love the English names and as you say the meaning behind their names would have been totally lost in they hadn't changed them. Really iterates me when I see people complain about the name change in this manhwa without bothering to consider if there a good reason for it.

For a moment there I thought u were saying that u can't imagine them growing old as in they won't be having a good future

The misunderstanding is solved so you can come back now

Thank you!