Savurou's Topics (32)

This is NOT normal in a BDSM relationship.
First, the relationship must be based on trust. And it should make both participants feel good, either in a sexual way or not. MD is not trying to pleasure Chanwoo by doing the things he is doing. He is trying to punish him for rejecting him and trying to prove a point.
Second, the scenes must be discussed before they start. Someone in a submissive mindspace should not be made to make decisions like that. They only have to identify the moment something pleasurable starts being uncomfortable and communicate with their dom. They should not feel they have to ENDURE pain and humiliation to be accepted. If it is uncomfortable and not pleasurable, it most stop.

If someone threatens to abandon and betray their partner if they won’t have sex with them, wouldn’t you call it abusive? Imagine the threatened one is a girl, she ends up agreeing with it, and in the end she has to be taken to the hospital because she is bleeding. She was not lubricated, she was tense, she didn’t want to do it, but she did agree to it. Would you call this a healthy relationship? (This is a real life example, happend here in Brasil)
Of course, nobody has to stay in a platonic or loveless relationship if they don’t want to, but this things should never be posed as threats. In this case, If MD is not comfortable with being only chanwoo’s dom, and he clearly isn’t, he should not have agreed to try again, instead of starting a competition.

http://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/5931412/

There is no umbrella for what a 'normal' BDSM relationship is suppose to be. It depends on the individuals involved. Yes, both people can get off, but there are many instances where the pleasure is one sided for the Dom to get off specifically. Usually a reward is given to the sub, this could be afterwards, this could be days later, but no, the pleasure doesn't always go both ways with every sexual act in all BDSM relationships. Nor are things planned down to the very T every time. This is the reason why safe words are in place, in case it's too much for the sub.

Yes, on the surface of the BDSM community people say every little detail is planned out, but that's just for show because outsiders normally label the entire community as abusive.
There's actually a lot of spontaneity and variety in BDSM relationships, in and outside the bedroom. This isn't particularly relevant to the scene, but if you believe everybody in the BDSM community is dotting their I's and crossing their T's, that's not realistic.

One of the few and only things that all BDSM relationships have in common is CHOICE. Whether I like MD's tactics or not, Chanwoo made his choice to stay.

Also, I don't know where I said this relationship was healthy? It's not healthy, but the reason it isn't healthy isn't because of the BDSM. It's because of the communication that isn't happening outside of the play. Most of the depictions of relationships in BL stories aren't healthy, and usually have this same 'communication' problem. (I mean take the main couple for example. Most of their relationship dynamic sure as hell wasn't healthy -_-)
The only point I brought up earlier is that humiliation does happen in some BDSM relationships and that I don't think MD is out of character in this chapter because of that.

MD choosing to be a coward and take his frustration out on Chanwoo because he didn't get his way? Chanwoo deciding to stay and make out with someone he hates in order to prove something? I think they're both stupid (wouldn't be me), but people don't think rationally when emotions are involved, so I'm neutral on the entire matter.

I see, well, other people who practice BDSM interpreted the relationship as abusive. I understand the meaning of "pleasurable" is not objective. I did not mean both of them should reach orgasm in every scene, I only meant both of them should want to do it (the scene). I do not believe choosing to do something equals wanting to do it. It is not always bad to do something you don't want to do. But this case reminds me a lot of the example I used before, and it went to court. The girl went to the hospital together with her boyfriend and the people working there pressed charges against him. The judge decided it was indeed rape.
In this case, MD is being manipulative. And, while I agree there's no black and white here, the power imbalance between them makes me think MD is more to blame. The way it was done as some kind of veiled threat is not right.
The meaning of normality is also not objective. Sometimes it is interpreted as what is common, sometimes as what is healthy, sometimes as what is natural. I meant to say it is not healthy, the relationship. Not the act of humuliation itself is bad, but the purpose it served in this case.
Also, there is always room to blame abusive relationships on its victims. They tecnically are free to end them or at least press charges, but they actually choose to stay in many cases. They are victims nonetheless, in need of help.
I'm sorry for being so agressive and using so assertive words to describe something I do not practice or know closely. I am wrong in doing that. I only believe it is important to critically analyse these works and understand when they are not depicting something healthy, and I believe you agree with me in this point. I worry because I know many of the readers are young, mostly young girls I would say, and they are the most vulnerable to abusive relationships.

totally agree. though I don't think we know why MD did what he did, maybe its cause of the rejection, maybe it's not. I still see MD has a badass sadistic character (⌒▽⌒) it fit him so much to be sadistic, and I don't feel bad for any of them.

Yes, there are BDSM practitioners in the comments calling it abusive, so remember this is just my personal take on this. You didn't come off as aggressive at all, just very concerned about the characters. You're allowed your opinion as well.

Reading through some comments, I think the biggest difference for me as a reader is I can't infantilize Chanwoo. I don't see Chanwoo as someone helpless and mentally unfit to handle the situation he's in. Just unsure because perhaps he's in love?
I believe there is a very big difference between someone choosing to do something and being forced to do something, of course it depends on the situation, but in this story so far, I haven't seen a situation presented where Chanwoo hasn't been given a choose.
But everyone interprets the story differently and that's OK. I'll know more about what I feel once the next chapters come out. Who knows, maybe it'll get worse.... I have a feeling it might get worse, so fingers crossed.

As for younger readers, this website as a whole isn't a good go-to healthy depictions of romance(even with the straight stories). Young readers aren't suppose to be on this site reading these types of stories in the first place, so if a young reader makes it here to a story like this, they've probably read a lot of dysfunctional material up until this point. There's also the case where what's healthy and what turns people on doesn't always correlate, but that's a different matter entirely (at least pertaining to fictional stories).

I just feel like reading this most people already have an understanding that the relationship is a defective one, and/or just don't care. But I have no problem at all discussing things and exchanging different opinions. I'm just hoping things don't get worse than this(〜￣△￣)〜

"If anyone is gonna hit you, it should be me! I'm doing it anyway." lol I picture something crazy like that in his head.

Perhaps this 'wanting my sub to be my partner' thing is new to this character. But as you've said, it fits him to behave this way instead of talking things out and opening himself up.
I'd like to see MD change just a nudge during this story though. Communicating more effectively, and boldly, not just in bed, would make him so much more hotter in my opinion :D

I agree but at the same time, until Chanwoo won't change I don't see any reason for MD to change. and I won't mind, either way, I enjoy it anyway since I don't care for any of them (⌒▽⌒)

Yes, I do understand your point. I read all chapters of koisuru boukun and I keep reading the new ones. The same way I read Hidoku Shinaide and many others. And they have romanticised rape. As long as people understand it is not actually healthy, it is ok. But of course many don’t, thus the importance of discussion that we agreed upon.
It is actually refreshing to have a discussion which relies on something different than random insults and childish sentences :D

thank you for the nice words (⌒▽⌒)

Yeah, this huge Slut (╯°Д °)╯╧╧