Kittykat's Topics (211)

...oh boy...how do I say this...

NOOOOOOOOOOOO im TIREDDDD

*sigh* same ngl

Make ur own then

no, these straight female authors just need to stop being so heteronormative.

Try dark heaven. They do switching. You'll like them .

Yeah right that why I love Harada but I suspect he is a man mangaka, but versatile is so hot we need more

God harada art man !!
Those things hit different.

Ha yes really one of my fav author ! So messed up yet so good every time

Their Protagonists face when they have s*x .
Worth watching!!

Theo is comfortable as a bottom... Why would the author change it? It's not heteronormative coz they are gay to start with and the bottom is not small, fragile and girl looking so I think you argue for nothing honeslty...

but just cuz ur comfortable as a bottom doesnt mean you dont ever want to top. thats why its heteronormative. to say something cant be heteronormative cuz its gay means u ultimately dont understand the meaning of the word. these are fictional men created by straight women

Did Theo ever asked Seth to switch once in the story? Even if he did ask, I don't think Seth would be comfortable to try. And even if the story is written by a straight woman... Can't they have fantasies too?

do u even know a real gay person? seems like you dont. gay people arent all switch, there are gays who just prefer to top or bottom regardless of their physical form or identity. tell me youre so caught up with your hate with anything hetero without telling me you are. bottoming and topping in sex isnt heteronormative, that's a normal fvcking gay sex that's how gay have sex, who tops and who bottoms arent parallel to who's the man and who's the woman. theo bottoming doesnt mean it's heteronormative relationship wtf is going on with your head? he just prefers seth to ram him to oblivion there are men who prefers to be fvcked outta their lives and there are gays who want to be the one ramming their dong on asses. what heteronormative shit are you saying here lol.

and why are you having a problem with women writing bl stories/sex? is your inner misogyny rearing it's head? if u hate women so much then find bl written by gay and men then.

youre such a hypocrite for still saying these things while subscribing to these series and continue reading it. youre not even paying for it and reading it in an illegal site and you still have energy to complain as if u have any contribution.

Actually BJ Alex has this problem. The uke wants to top the seme but it's played for laughs and never happens.

lol she would die from shock if she read yaoi written by men because if she is this upset here about rape /switching etc etc.. Then she will really be shocked at the content in gay mlm. Like those stories are even more strict and fucked up.
Pedo Shota is incredibly popular with gay mangakas and is 99% of the time made by men so maybe she should go and read that crap and leave us ''heteronormative'' people alone.

Im really tired of vritue signaling straight women taking out their guilt for reading yaoi on other women or hating on female authors. i read kittykat's other comments and they said ''if i was a gay man i would switch'' so kittykat is not even a man yet she thinks she has the right to speak for all gay men and accuse people of being heteronormative.

Bottoming and topping is actually very important in the gay dating scene so i don't know why she is making up false idea's in her head about gay men being majority switches.

what the fuck is this trash comment. this is about the BL industry being toxic for many reasons. no one ever said that real gay men cant be strict with roles but its the fact that switching is so rare for a reason in BL, fictional media mostly written by straight women. also, just because theres worse things than heteronormativity doesnt mean its not bad?????????? be fucking for real

also the people im accusing of being heteronormative are the straight female BL writers, why tf are you so offended

LITERALLYYY its so annoying and its clear the reason why Alex wont bottom is cuz he doesnt wanna be the "woman". its so common in BL

Omg I'm sorry you receive hate over peanuts you are right we want more switch I understand your point don't bother arguing with people who disagree and get offended because you have a different opinion.
As you said most of the time we don't get versatile because the top don't want to take the "female role" yet among gay men there are more bottoms then top or verse so they do switch sometimes.

Yes they're psycho and I love it currently wanting for happy shifty life update I want to see my boys in action with their poping veins on the hand and the lewd shaded drawing

straight female writers who also write the most wholesome fluffy queer stories of all time. stop acting like when u see bls where there is fix top or bottom and immediately thinking theyre heteronormative just becuz they dont switch becuz that mentality is so fvcked up. we keep telling you that not all gays switch so dont come complaining to every single bl to switch and when they dont switch you go on around trashing authors who work tirelessly just to publish something you actually read for free in here, illegaly. your face is so thick.

and even then your first statement says it's unrealistic for them to not switch when they could, are you even for real? what on earth did u eat to delusionally believe that every gay switch lest they would be conforming to heteronormative dynamic? leik what? how did u even make that connection unless youre fetishizing gay men?

question if you have a problem with what is written then why are you reading it? If you don't like it them don't read it....

because i wanted to see where it went. and thats a dumb thing to say because we need to criticize immoral things for change to happen

Fr

Smut isn't meant to be Enjoyed though It means the story contains S*xual Content

But pointing the Authors are something specifically BL Authors as they are not the only ones that creates Stories with r*pe (I mean use more General Term like "Authors")

R*pe are commonly seen on Smuts(Stories with s*xual Content) actually (Or it's just me)

These story is Psychological Thriller so expect more and more Suffering and Trauma.

If you ask me (Just in case)
I like this story, More and More Trauma, cuz for me sometimes , I get bored or Just got immune with toxicity

you can tell by the way the smut is portrayed that its meant to be enjoyed. its common in BL. its supposed to be "hot"

But the Smut itself means that the Material contains S*xual Stuff.

It's on the reader to judge if it is "Hot" or not

Some of the readers consider one thing as "Hot" some don't

im not gonna argue anymore but its very clear by the framing and tone, media literacy is important.

It's not really the creator of the manwhas fault they are just basing it off the original novel. I also think that the r@pe in there isn't really meant to be enjoyed it just adds to the character of the guide.

I don’t think this particular series framed the guiding sessions which were basically r@pe as enjoyable smut. What are you saying?

It’s there bc people enjoy reading it- it’s what draws in the readers, it’s not just some random shit they put in the story with no meaning behind it

oh yeah i know, though the author likely enjoys that content too if theyre okay creating it. its sad really. cuz like ive said, there are absolutely ways of depicting r*pe in a respectful way that isnt p*rn essentially. or just making a mc who likes sex who isnt depicted as a "whore"

it totally was... ppl in the comments saying it was hot and a "4p" when it was gang r*pe. the authors know who theyre appealing to. many other webtoons have depicted r*pe in more respectful ways, ie not having it be gratitous and graphic, framing it differently, etc. its a delicate subject

The usual way of fetishized r@pe is when the bottom hates it AND then eventually likes the sex, somehow forgetting that he was being r@ped. In this series, the bottom never liked it, it’s a horrible experience before, during and after.

If readers find this hot, then that’s their problem. Being tagged as smut, meaning showing graphic sex does not automatically mean normalizing and fetishizing r@pe. It just means it’s not censored or R18 vs non-smut which shows nothing at all. Under smut, there’s also censored or uncensored version for penises.

Enjoying the scene is personal from one reader to another but it’s different how the author portrayed it. Reading so many titles over the years, shitty and good ones, I can tell the author didn’t portray the sessions as normalizing or fetishizing r@pe. It was horrible for the bottom before during and after. Bottom looks gaunt and traumatized after the guiding sessions. If it the author meant it as an enjoyable one, then the bottom should enjoy the sex eventually and act satisfied/blushing or something after sex.

I agree I agree. Just because it's a fictional book and smut or whatever doesn't always mean that the stories should be all sunshines and rainbows. Lots of stories is actually a mirror of what actually happens irl, it just shows how toxic this world is. The author writing psychological stuffs like this doesn't automatically mean that they're into r@pe kink.

Yeah. Although the author is going for the romantic route for the two main characters, I gotta give it to the author for not changing what the guiding sessions are. They are horrible for the guide through and through. The two main characters will seem to develop some trust or dependency as they need and care for each other. Eventually love each other but definitely not in the most romantic way other readers would expect.

yes, smut is graphic sex ment to be hot. not r*pe. thats more horror.

i mean the way its framed its very likely. media literacy.

r*pe should never be portrayed like this. it shouldnt be made to be smut. it numbs us to it.

Portrayed as what? As it is? Jeez.

If you don’t get or like what the author is doing then stop reading. It’s as simple as that.

im allowed to criticize. there are serious problems in the BL community that need to be talked about

no it shouldnt be so graphic. studies have shown graphic portrayal makes us numb and less empathetic to actual victims

So the author also failed to portray the guide looking devastated after the guiding sessions. Got it.

There is no need to make rape "graphic". Graphic sexual scenes, to the point they show extremely close details, are made for the sake of porn not for the sake of just showing a scene to move on the plot. Presenting rape as porn is highly problematic. It doesn't make it okay nor does the fact that the ml looks miserable after it change its cause, which is once again porn. Even ml's devastation is used as part of it, for people that get off rape as presented in porn. The fact that the character even ends up with his assaulters further proves my point. Yeah, this is meant to be a fucked up story sure, but let's not lie to ourselves and act as if the porn scenes weren't made for the sake of the sexual enjoyment of the readers. There's a difference between plain graphic sexual scenes and graphic porn scenes. This is graphic porn and porn only has one use. It's true that people who enjoy this type of content are not evil or immoral (that would be too far fetched) but it's also true that consuming this type of content in daily basis can desensitize you over this specific matter. I'm not saying that it'll make think rape is okay, but it will make you less emotionally understanding of people that become victims of this sexual crime. The human brain is "connecting the pieces" depending on the information it receives daily, and this happens without you even realizing.

YES!!!! THANK U! This is exactly what i meant

this is genuinely so well written and intellectual and hits on every point. this is meant to be r*pe porn and the author sees no issue with it, as do many BL authors. more people need to speak out like this.

Thank you

This is so true, beautifully written, & yes this normalisation of rape & victim ending up with the rapist have been going on for soo long, that it has become deep rooted, & the fact that there's hardly any yaoi in which the top serves the jail time for abusing victim, & they don't even get to face the consequences, all they do is get lovey dovey in the end as if rape never really happened

Exactly normalisation of rape & victim ending up with the rapist have been going on for soo long, that it has become deep rooted, & the fact that there's hardly any yaoi in which the top serves the jail time for abusing victim, & they don't even get to face the consequences, all they do is get lovey dovey in the end as if rape never really happened

YUPPP!!!

From what I’ve read so far, this webtoon actually did it better than many titles to show the main character not enjoying his treatment. Especially after the harsh situation where he has to service the 4 espers. It is still still tagged as smut, yes, but it is not the more enjoyable kind. It is not as black and white as many others where the MC just accepts he was raped and loving it not long after. Yugeon also doesn’t forget his objective of why he’s doing this in the 1st place; for his brother.

I’ve seen many MCs forgetting why they were raped in the 1st place, and just accepting their situation. That’s where the normalization in rape happens. This title walk that balance between ‘bl smut’ and ‘sexual assault’. BL does have a problem with the normalization of rape, indeed, I hope in the future BL authors do show more that rape is a serious problem. So in a way, this webtoon is trying to be more nuanced in that department; more that I’ve could say for many titles.

I don’t enjoy what happened to Yugeon, and I don’t see this as enjoyable ‘smut’ as well. Realistically, Yugeon won’t end up with any of the 4 espers, unless the tone of the BL changes slowly. I see Shinje starting to care about Yugeon, so it is interesting to see how the dynamic and power play will play out. Rape victims usually is not in any position of power to deny any advances, and in BL, it is apparent as well. Though, I see Yugeon will be able to stand above this, and he is no softie as well, unlike many MCs in ‘romantic sexual assault’ BLs. I also stick around mostly for the plot as well, since the plot is what interest me the most. The art do helps in that sense, albeit kinda rough around the edges. Hope you will continue sticking around as well since this seems to have potential. Let’s see if the situation will get better for our MC. (๑•ㅂ•)و✧

hes going to end up with the ML. duh. and thats part of the issue. also the smut was def made to be enjoyable for some people.

Yeah, it is still made enjoyable for some, but not straight up enjoyable. It has that very much dubious consent vibe, and it makes many people not enjoying it. Well, the thing is is, this kind of BL, the MC is always going to end up with the ML. At least, it’s not straight up immediately together. That’s why I’m saying it’s as least not as bad as the others. Still problematic, but not the worst.

The consent is not "dubious". It's clearly non consensual.

I said the very dubious consent vibe; the vibe itself. Of course, the main character, Yugeon, never agrees to this in the first place. But, for his job, he has to, reluctantly. Well, it is problematic cause in the end it’s still not consensual.

I see what you mean, but yeah, even the vibe is NOT dubious because it was coercion, blackmail. He didn't really "agree", he was coerced/blackmailed to. So i stick to my words, nothing about it is dubious, be it the vibes or the actions themselves.

Unless of course in fiction the word dubious is also used in coercion? Not sure. I think the blackmail makes it pass the line of "dubious".

I’m saying very dubious consent vibe, cause a few times, I feel like it was portrayed that way in the webtoon, but I know its not. It’s just the art deceiving me. OTL
Yeah, art excuse aside, it’s not and has never been consensual, I agree. I always see Yugeon being exhausted and it’s depressing.

Haha, sometimes I think the authors in BL do try to make the coercion, ‘dubious’, in a sense. But the more aware readers will notice anyway. Profundis never hide the ugliness at least.

I see

dubious consent is often a phrased used to avoid the word rape so people dont feel bad enjoying it which is gross.

I mean, that makes sense, you either give consent or you don't. And if you just accept a situation through coercion, that's technically not real consent either. I guess the term "coercive rape" exists for a reason.

Now that i think about it, the only way the term dubious consent can be correctly used is when the person having sex is unsure about how they feel about it and can't clearly communicate their discomfort they feel to the other person (which keeps up the act without asking how their partner currently feels)

still, thats r*pe. i feel like dubcon should only be used in like a situation where the person consents but their consent cant actually be legitimate according to law, like if theyre a prisoner

Perhaps he meaning of "dubious" means in the first place that it's rape, because the "consent" is not clear and when consent is not clear it's not really consent. Dubious IS something morally wrong either way, it's just that it's something that i guess it's used in situations when people don't communicate directly, for example it's not rape in an "obvious" way?(like violence that can easily be discerned by a third person's eyes but still rape nevertheless)I don't know how else it could be used, because at this point the term would be useless. Perhaps the word "consent" in the term is not used to really mean "consent" and it's something that is used the same way the consent in the term "consent through coercion" is used (coercive rape)? Honestly, at this point i am confused, and if we see this logically, it is indeed a useless term. As for the thing you mentioned, what did you mean? Can you give an example with a specific situation?

i would only use dubcon if the person consented under unethical conditions. not really direct coercion but like if they were a horny prisoner, kinda like Hector from Castlevania season 3. He consented enthusiastically, but he was a prisoner being manipulated be Lenore. So irl it would be rape, but me personally since there arent laws there about prisoner safety and whatever, calling it rape distracts from the fact that Hector wanted to do it enthusiastically.

With this example i now understand what you mean. As I've seen though, the term is used to straight up rape in most cases, i highly doubt people use it correctly in such specific situations(like you've also said).
Personally i have no problem with people that read twisted content, as long as they're not hypocrites that try to cover the fact that they contain rape, violence e.t.c or what the story's purpose is by showing violence, which is entertainment (like in this one).
The problem lies with people that try to normalize it and make it something it's not, since they can't handle feeling guilty(your mentions helped me see a clear picture).
If you read something messed up, own it, instead of lying to yourself (or just don't read it at all if you have to rationalize the violence in it to make yourself feel better) .
Also accept the truth about what the consequences of consuming this content are. I believe that if people at least admitted that what they read, is what it is, their perception and in general the bad effects of reading things like this (like desensitization e.t.c), would be less bad since they wouldn't try to "normalize" it.
I'm not saying that the effects would cease to exist, but it would help minimize the desensitization of the individual, since the unconscious lines between reality and fiction would be more "clear" (I'm not talking about the conscious ones, like the knowledge that rape is bad and the morality to not support it).

I hope this makes sense and sorry about the essay haha,
i just find this topic interesting XD

They do lol
https://www.mangago.zone/tag/3P/

RAAAAAAAAAAAa

Ok so to find any tag really, you click one of tag under "Top Tags" once your there it will redirect you to a page it could be "Manga Tag: XXX" in the search box just type any tag you want and it'll recommend you those (sometimes some manga don't really correspond to that tag but most should be)