Cleopatra's Topics (811)

HORNY GROUNDHOG DAY LMAOO

you do know that gay guy have like different taste and preference too?

not all gay men like buff and hairy men, thats a stereotype lmao

i mean i did say what do i know for this reason... people really like to jump the gun with these sorts of things. ofc i dont think all gay men have one preference i shouldn't even explain this, just that i couldnt imagine a person who identifies as a gay man would also like women's idealized depictions of men in their bl lol it aint that deep it's just an opinion

plenty of yuri has weirdly model-like with all the same body type idealized versions of women which ticks me off and i cant imagine myself as a lesbian writing them but it doesn't mean that i don't ACTUALLY think the ppl that write them cant possibly be gay women. chill

i feel like it's just supposed to be common sense i guess and i don't see how it's so hard to believe or imagine, when there's variety of people with variety of taste and preference

also this why yall need to ditch this mindset of "women's idealized depiction of men in their bl" because i can assure you even in bara/geikomi where there's muscled hairy men

like as trans gay guy, i have seen and interacted with tons of other gay guys who like and draw "hairless dude". even if you don't mean anything bad or anything deep with it, your comment still irks me because idk this is like 2023 and almost 2024 but there's still ppl like you with this type of a stereotypical comment. of coz this is just my opinion

edit ** even in bara/geikomi where there's muscled hairy men, there will be women author/artist

??? why does everything have to be taken in the most bad faith way possible???

It's a lot more complicated than that you know, I mean for one "there's variety of ppl with variety of taste and preference" if vast variety is what you were looking for then the vastly homogeneous genre of bl isn't your genre man. Also if you looked into literary research on BL you would see that the genre has a very complicated history when it comes to tropes, audiences and the market depending on country etc.

"People like me", how dare I want variety in what I read and make a random comment about it that I did not proofread and send to my lawyer for clearance. What the hell is people's problem these days, are we acting like bl is woke now and not the problematic clusterfuck it is or something??? The bottom line is in BL the vast majority of stories function the same way and have stereotypical pairings, if this is your thing that is cool, it's also obviously also mine most of the time.

You can go defend men's rights to write bl as stereotypical as straight women do, literally no one cares, not my point. I don't get why all of a sudden me making a bad joke about how the webtoon is stereotypical is taken in the worst faith possible as if I do not have a life in the real world and DONT ACTUALLY KNOW THAT GAY PPL HAVE VARIETIES OF PERSPECTIVES AND PREFERENCES. OF COURSE THEY DO!!! HOW IS THIS RELEVANT?? Do you think I don't go outside and talk to ppl irl???

My point was that it's cool to have different types of ppl writing BL exactly because of that!!!! Then I made a joke about how the couple still looks like a BL stereotype appearance wise. Took me 0.5 seconds to think it and write it and I went off with my day. It aint that deep. But of course ppl have to act like I'm an idiot who has never met a gay man in my life and only know what gay men are like from like Tom of Finland illustrations. Are you happy now that you got an analysis of my super problematic comment?

Are you fine with PEOPLE LIKE ME now??? The world is burning and queer people around the world are in fear for their lives and some teenagers are "irked" by a comment I made that implies maybe I didn't like as much a pirated webtoon that may or may not have been written by a guy because it is stereotypical and has hairless men which is very predominant in korean webtoons, because "men are allowed to make stereotypical bl that are based on how straight women have written BL for decades too". Really? That's your hot take? That is what irks you??

I wanna cry, seriously.

bro, you made a fucking comment that rlly sound like a judgy stereotypical comment. do you think if i comment on some yuri like "i can't believe a girl would draw women with this type of body", do you rlly think no one would be mad at me or what if i go comment on some action shonen manga "i can't believe a girl made this story" . it doesn't take much of a braincell why some ppl would find these kind of comment or "jokes" weird. like bro, i have made bad jokes before and even if i don't mean anything bad by it, after ppl told me why my comment left a bad taste, i would simply understand their perspective and just say it isn't my intent, im sorry, literally simple as that

you saying your comment "it's not that deep" or "i don't think much about it" like yes, we can obviously see you don't think much abt that comment. surprise, surprise when you comment stupid shit then you will get replies questioning your intelligence

also just bcuz the world is burning, just bcuz i am still in a country where it's illegal to be me doesn't take away the ability of me being annoyed and irked at other small things. like the world can be in apocalypse mode and i would still be mad at a table if i stubbed my toe on it

if you want this not to be so deep then you could've just replied to my first comment "oh yeah, i know. its just a bad joke lmao" and i would be like you know what, sure, whatever but no, you have to be all dramatic with bad takes sprinkled all over so i have to be dramatic too

also, i know this is like such a normal belief and you prolly don't mean anything bad by it, again. but still, i hope ppl stop assuming that bl community/artist is just mostly filled with straight women. yes, there's a lot of straight women in this community BUT do consider that most of us are in asian that is mostly not safe for the majority of us to came out. i have met tons of this 'straight women' bl artist and there's quite a lot of them that are either gay guy or trans or queer in some type of way but we cannot say it clearly bcuz its not safe for us. so the least that i could ask from you (and i have had this convo with other ppl before) is that to stop assume that most of us are straight women (unless of coz if a specific someone had clarified they are a straight women) bcuz even if you are wrong abt us, we cannot correct you for the fear of outing ourselves

ah so you're on the "all BL authors are straight women and fetishize men" wagon... come on, i thought we were past this as a society... many BL authors are closeted queer people (a fact that japanese gay manga artist Gengoroh Tagame himself explained) assuming they are all straight women who like to fetishize men is soooo 2018. in Japan it isn't quite safe to come out yet; using the "theyre just straight women" card is harmful

my point wasnt that only straight women write bl, again you are reading everything i say in the most bad faith way possible. my point was that the webtoon is stereotypical, and it IS based on tropes straight women started.

Also I have written a research paper during my master's based on research on BL manga so I know some stuff that probably other people don't know regarding its history. No I don't think only straight women write BL, again you read what I said in very bad faith. But it is true that how most popular BL stories are based on decades upon decades of stories that women WHO IDENTIFIED AS STRAIGHT wrote. There's actually some very interesting research on how "women" who identified as "straight" have used BL as a way to connect with queerness in indirect, safe ways. But ofc anyone with eyeballs can tell you that BL is still very hetero and cis normative and very conformist for the most part, because the genre has a large tradition that people still follow, and most things that are different are defined by being the exception to the rule. The paper I'm referring to is called Straight Women Queer Texts, I can send u a link if u want.

That being said, yes, it was a dumb joke in bad taste. Probably if a day had passed and I had looked at my comment myself I would have been like "wow that was a stupid thing to write thats not even funny" and would have moved on.

But I cannot get over the fact that as a queer person what most people cared about was that I did not say everything 100% correctly and it was interpreted in the most bad faith way possible. I am sorry, but to me it was very upsetting to have some random person call me "people like me", what queerphobic people refer to me as in my family and everyday life, and to read what I say in the worst way possible about something as unimportant as this, as if the most normal thing for me to imply is that I am too dumb to understand what a stereotype is. I do not come online in spaces like this to be othered and made to feel inferior. Of course I know it's a stereotype. If I had said the opposite, that "Idk if id believe a man wrote a story where everyone is so hairy" it would be just as much stereotypical and make as little sense. It's very hurtful to be in a community of ppl who I feel I share things with and still be called "people like me" because for once I did not make a 100% thoughtful statement.

People joke around like that irl all the time. I joke about how lesbians wear flannel and vests even though I wear neither. I joke with my gay guy friends about how they jump from one grindr date to another, even though some of them are very monogamous and dont do hookups. Stereotypes within communities can also be just in-jokes that connect ppl. That's it. That was the depth of my stupid joke. I meant it the same way I'd say it to a friend, and it wasn't a particularly successful or smart joke. But no I do not accept being judged and being called "people like me" by random queer kids on the internet because I didn't use the right language 100%. I'm less upset now so I can talk like a normal person more, hope this made more sense.

god, you keep saying that i read everything in the most bad faith way possible but i literally fucking said early on that "you prolly don't mean anything bad by it" and i didn't even said that you thought "only straight women write bl", i said "i hope people stop assuming that bl community/artist is MOSTLY filled with straight women." literally that's it

also i don't care abt the research paper or what the history said when we all know how many people had been claimed as cishet when they had so many kinda suspiciously queer thing going on if you actually read their diary or something. or does these straight women even capable of coming out in a homophobic country because i know for me personally, i am a straight woman to a lot of ppl but who knows, that's prolly just me projecting.

so like idc who started it, what you think of bl or what the fuck ever abt bl history once upon a time ago, fact is right now, there's a lot of queer people in bl community AND there's a lot of bl that have been created accordingly either following the stereotypes or out of the norm and people in general just should stop labeling a whole community as mostly straight women filled community and what's even the point to point out who started first, like no one do that for fantasy genre for example "oh a women writing a story abt dragon which is historically created by men?? i could hardly believed it" (this is just an exaggeration lmao)

and do you think i know you or literally what your experience or life is like? no, i don't. i made that comment "ppl like you commenting stereotypical stuff" is literally just that, nothing THAT deep. maybe bcuz english is not my first language, i don't rlly get the big deal here. i just don't know who you are personally so how tf would i even know if "you are too dumb to understand what a stereotype is or not" like this is the internet, i have meet those dumb ppl. pardon me for assuming the worst when even on this godforsaken site, i have met horrible ppl. this is like a public space, if you make dumb joke or even being sarcastic or satire, some ppl will take you seriously because they don't know you, they don't know if you're joking or not or whatever bcuz we have met ppl who have your kind of comment but are completely serious with it

U r SO RIGHT. like i dont see any hate comments on other toxic mangas even a lot of ppl loves trash characters as long as they dont cheat lmao

People hate cheating more than rape loll

its not only in bl, in all genres readers tend to draw the line at cheating, have u not seen booktok???????????

girl no i have a mental health to maintain lol i dont go down cursed tiktok rabbitholes
its just funny to me like this webtoon has top tags like "horrible" "alpha and omega are toxic people" "trash" then u go to some cursed illegal shit and its like "hawt" "sexy" "great smut" "i love this author" like?? ITS KILLING ME INSIDE I DONT GET WHY PEOPLE DRAW THE LINE AT CHEATING SOMEONE TELL ME THE SECRET OK I AM NOT SHAMING YOUR SHAMING IM GENUINELY CURIOUS!!!

naurrr trust me im the same, i just see lots of videos passing by that theyre known for liking toxic tropes but they all draw the line at cheating its a universal thing not just bl readers ig

I think maybe because cheating much more common and it's the most likely to happen in a relationship?

As for JINX (I dropped it), I think people don't even get a chance to be mad because the uke is always accepting whatever the jerk seme does, like..... I'm not telling uke to fight back but he actually swoons over the seme as soon as he shows the least bit normal humane behavioral kindness lol.

I think the most important factor here is the aftermath. Usually in those toxic manhwas, the toxic one gets a regret arc or at least some sort of karma, angst and somewhat realize their mistake. But in this one, (spoiler but everyone already knows), those cheating alpha and omega gets together while beta mc is left heartbroken and...... I think people can't stand how a cheating duo doesn't receive karma and gets their happily ever after instead. It's what mostly happens in reality too, sad.

hmmm i dont think this really gets to the bottom of things. I can find you 100 Jinxes it was just a popular example, the answer is always the same, ppl don't care. People don't react to that stuff as much as to this, especially with this much disgust! Also like I said, plenty of relationships have toxic shit in them, not just cheating but also abusive shit. Idk if it's less or more common. Like plenty of ppl (esp women) have been groped in a train or in transit etc by some creep or gotten sexually harassed but u dont see anyone getting "disgusted" by a seme doing that in a bl, you know what i mean?? They separate the real version and the fantasy

Ok ok maaaybe I have a theory. Maybe ppl feel like cheating is closer to reality..? Like it hits closer to home because they THINK that happening to them would be a more realistic betrayal than other shit going on in bl, so they project their real life feelings more than in other crazy shit???

Then again this story is like the opposite of realistic and it's clearly written for ppl who have a bit of a cheating fetish, similarly to how some stories are written for ppl who have a rape fantasy fetish, so idk if that's it either ╮(￣▽￣)╭

I get your point. Read my 2nd reply, I think that's the reason people so disgusted with this story unlike other toxic ones. I think people care more about the aftermath (including me). Like... it's fiction so I don't mind controversial stuff but I want to see the victim get some justice because reality is already biting. but this story already got spoiled all the way and the cheating duo not getting any karma is probably the reason a lot of people hate it (including me lol)
I'm just reading now to see the reveal and wish beta mc ends up with someone better ^.^

Here's my 2 cents. I don’t read booktok recs much so I can't tell why they like toxicity but for BL, rape, sa, abuse, kidnapping, stalking etc. has been normalized so much over the years by the authors that BL readers now hardly bat an eye at these stuff. Now why they're not ok with cheating? Probably because it just breaks the exclusivity of the relationship and since all the shit is happening to a guy not a girl

Even worse if it's an ear or hand fetish