MangaSanctuary's Favorite

I don’t think this is Yaoi, it’s just shounen Ai. No Yaoi allowed in China lol

Raw please

But it's pretty much censored too? Like their lower halves are covered not just the usual lightsabers... has it changed?

[PLEASE READ TILL THE END TO HAVE A MEANINGFUL DISCUSSION]

This didn't portray BDSM correctly at all! BDSM is built on consent. Remember this acronym dear children: FRIES
Freely Given
Reversible
Informed
Enthusiastic
Specific

1. Freely Given
This means that there was no coercion involved. No substances were forced on the individual such as alcohol to get them to a state where they would say something that they don't actually mean. In the manga, Akihito is drunk when he says that he is willing to have Shizuru do anything to him. Meaning that he is unable to give consent as he is not in his right mind. Shizuru had nothing to do with Akihito's alcohol intake prior to their meeting, but he could certainly take advantage of the situation and use it to his advantage. The fact that Akihito woke up with no initial memory of what happen only further proves that the "decision" he made was not a legitimate one and was not to be taken as actual consent.

2. Reversible
Most yaoi fail miserably at this. The seme says, "Even if you say 'no' later on I won't stop," or some iteration of that. This is not consent. You have the right to revoke your consent at anytime and for any reason. If you don't want to do it five minutes later, that is your right. If you get hungry, sleepy, feel sick, or whatever--it's your body and your right to say when you want to stop. This is especially important in a scene (BDSM lingo). You need a safe word to signal to the other that you want to stop. All parties need one. This is not only for the sub, but also for the dom/me and any other participants as well.

3. Informed
This manga does this terribly. You need to know what you are consenting to. You can NOT spring shit up randomly. If you're doing a scene with your dom/me and they start paddling you when you two never agreed upon this, then that is a break of consent. Most people write up a contract and make sure that everything is confirmed before engaging in the scene. This very important. It is not up to one party to decide what happens. That is going against individual autonomy and highly unethical. Shizuru telling Akihito that he was just going to have to do whatever he says in the playroom is absolutely fucking ridiculous. Akihito has no fucking clue what Shizuru could do. He could fucking electrocute him or do blood play with him or put him in a body bag. BDSM gets very fucking dark and gets very dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. You have the right to know what is happening to your body. How the hell can you give consent when you don't know what it is that you're consenting to.
I know my shit when it comes to BDSM. Akihito did not. He needed to be taught way before even trying anything. He obviously never dabbled in the lifestyle before (for many people it is a 24/7 thing). So he needed to be educated and not just thrown in. Informed consent requires all parties to be informed. Why the hell do I need to say this?!

4. Enthusiastic
This is really obvious. You need to be very sure that you want to do something. If you are taking forever to respond, then you don't need to do it. If you are on the fence, then you don't need to do it. Stop try to please the other party. You need to be selfish and think about yourself. This is your body. So you have every right to say no.
Akihito was very unsure in many situations because he felt torn between his feelings for Shizuru and his unfamiliarity and discomfort with Shizuru's lifestyle. "I can only love you like this." That's some bullshit right there. Yes, there are people who center BDSM as a very important and almost integral part of their life, but it is not impossible to love someone outside of your lifestyle. Sure, for some people BDSM is more of a hobby or somewhere in between. However, Shizuru gives off the 25/8 dom/master who needs to feel in control. He totally took advantage of Akihito's feelings for him in order to get him to comply with his demands.

5. Specific
This goes hand-in-hand with "Informed"
This is what I am consenting to. You need to be specific about what is being discussed. If you agreed upon a scene where there is breath play but instead are suspended and subjected to sensory deprivation then that is a violation of consent. You consented to breath play NOT sensory deprivation and suspension. "That's not what I ordered!" This manga really didn't go into specifics with their scenes which they didn't even call "scenes" because the manga posited Shizuru as the sole person able to make decisions about their play, which is goes against everything that consent is about.

In BDSM, I'm sure you've all heave of Safe Sane and Consensual (SSC). Now there has been a lot of talk over the years about how problematic this is and how it could be improved upon. The acronym RACK was created to mean "Risk Aware Consensual Kink". This essentially means that you are aware of the all of the potential risks involved in whatever type of play you are going to be engaging in and are giving your full consent (refer to FRIES). Need I remind you that another pillar of BDSM is after play. This can take numerous forms and means something different to each person who is in the BDSM community. The are general things that people can do but there are also very specific "rituals" that people will follow after they play and these can be very specific to the parties involved and their individual needs. Communication is key in this because needs can and will change so after care will look differently as a result.

This was not to bash this manga, but I cannot stand when harmful messages about BDSM are pushed in any media and more often than not the representation in the media is very misinformed which is why there are so many people praising this manga. They have absolutely no idea how inaccurate the manga was.
"But it would be boring if it was." No it wouldn't. Why do you think there are real people in BDSM?? The creator can create an interesting and accurate portrayal of BDSM. Plus you all could learn something. It's the creator who can make or break something. I've read stories about things I had no prior interest in and was sucked into it because the author wrote about it in such a way, while still being accurate to the real thing, that I was hooked and wanted to just keep learning more. Mangaka are fully capable of researching BDSM and making a well-researched and well-written story where the characters all have full agency and are enjoying themselves as a result. Akihito never got to voice what he wanted. He even had a little side thought at one point. "This seems unfair." I believe that was the approximate phrasing. Yes! It was unfair. What about his pleasure? What if Akihito wanted to try something? What if he wanted to discontinue something? Shizuru made it seem like it was his way or the highway. That is how he came across. He made it seem like a "no" to what he wanted was a "no" to their entire relationship. That was not right.
It was still entertaining and I did like it, but I don't feel right now bringing up all of those issues that were so pervasive. This manga was not long t all. If it was at least a few volumes long if not longer and was well fleshed out. Shit! I would be praising it on all of my platforms. They said five years passed. Shit, show us those five years please. Those years were material for more story goddamn it! More volumes = more money. Whatever. That's all I wanted to say.

The funniest thing about these comments asking for yaoi and saying that they don't like straight sex, is that most are straight women. Cringe.

1. Seungho ruffled Nakyum's hair in an affectionate gesture but also checked his fever as he did so. That's why he was like I won't do anything you're still feverish.

Its cuuuteeee. Also shows he regrets that Nakyum got as sick as he did because sg overdid it and now he is treating NK with care.

2. Raw spoilers / When Nakyum noticed Seunghos tense fist during the convo with his brother and his pained nightmare face, Nakyum allowed himself to be held (in order to comfort sg) and lied fo the Inhun about knowing anything about Seungho

This shows that what Nakyum feels towards Seungho is also affection and care and my guess is that these feelings have grown in him as they've continued to have sex. A lot is communicated in those moments and as SeungHo basically provides validation to Nakyum's sexuality and sensuality and need for touch, Nakyum may be feeling more tender feelings towards him.

Before Seungho, all Nakyum knew was to be ashamed of that part of himself and guilty that he couldn't push it away. It tormented him to the point of alcoholism. So I think what's happening for Nakyum is big.

3. Inhun keeps showing himself to be an insect. When NK was sick he didn't give a shit and Nakyum is beginning to notice, especially since he now has a strong foil to Inhuns behavior. Inhun has him on a yoyo. He does something mean or self serving and follows it up with a sweet touch or word. Nakyum, who was previously starved for male attention, may have easily fallen for that before, but now Seungho gives him uninterrupted attention and *wants* him more and more and even beyond common sense and reason.

4. When Seungho goes to buy Nakyum clothes, I think that's a huge sign of what Seungho intends to do with Nakyum's status. Nakyum is right not to think of himself as a servant in the household. He is more like the mistress and soon to be wife ;) sorry but I love it

Overall, historical context considered, Seungho is very good to Nakyum and Nakyum's character is developing in a way such that he also understands that.

I think their kisses and touches are a lot less forced / unwanted on Nakyum's end. Seung ho is mr steal ya man lmfao

5. Why is he so tortured when he can't touch Nakyum? Does Nakyum provide some sort of respite for him?

Late night reading: I suddenly felt an urge to go through the Joseon period caste system. I know nothing about Korea's history but according to Wikipedia (see below), this was the Joseon caste system. Can you tell me who belongs where in the story? Like, I assume that Seungho and his fam are Yangban, but then what about the learned sir, Jiwha & all of Seungho's harem, and our cute painter?
Tiny spoiler but Na-Kyum argues in chapter 38 that he's not a slave. Given that he's an orphan who was raised by courtisans, why isn't he a slave? And is he a Sangmin or a Cheonmin?

Joseon caste system:

Class HangulHanja Meaning
Yangban 양반 班 aristocrats
Jung-in 중인 中人 middle people
Sangmin 상민 常民 commoners
Cheonmin 천민 賤民 vulgar commoners
• Baekjeong 백정白丁 untouchables
• Nobi 노비 奴婢 slaves or serfs

Hold on..hear me out. Nakyum clearly didn't want to have sex with Yoon bc he loves Inhun, yeah...BUT he clearly told Yoon 'I will do all that you have asked' to divert Yoon's bloodlust off Inhun..Nakyum knew that meant sex and that he'd have to paint it. It is so much more tragic than a simple fictional yaoi rape. This author is really pushing the envelope with that yaoi trope. When Nakyum lost his virginity to Yoon, he gave his consent--Yoon was wrong to take advantage of Nakyum being so drunk he thought he was doing the deed with Inhun, again that is so much more complicated than rape or consensual sex. The only unarguably rape moments imho were the chapter before the bath scene--Yoon stopped when he saw Baek was not getting hard and the forced bj Nakyum performed to keep Yoon from killing Inhun for the evulz. This story needs a psychological tag and I need an aspirin and a fluffy manga break.

I may get many downvotes if I say this but here it goes. The shippers of this couple do not own any explanation to anyone. Every single person who choses to read this do it at their own risk of discomfort. Imagine start reading something and then expecting others to stop shipping or romancing a couple because you don't like them or feel uncomfortable?
I don't know how many times Yaoi readers in general have to say that just because one engages and enjoys stories and ships like this doesn't mean they condone rape or abuse.
There are many readers who don't ship the MCs but I haven't read one single poster here who is capable of express their opinion without going ten steps further and laying shame to others than do.
How many times the same thing has to be said over and over and even more in a
Yaoi genre? We all have different tastes and this is what makes these kind of moralistic shaming in PON even worse. I have seen people here that apparently enjoy other stories/ships that also have their grain of abuse, yaoi or shounen ai . For whatever reason, they seemed capable to enjoy other 'more friendly' abuse plot, Yet, they become the banner abusive relationship educators in this particular story -- that, by the way, is not even one of the most classic rape plots.
If you enjoy the story for the art or because you want to see Seungho dead or whatever, okay, stay and enjoy as you wish but why the need to put down people who ship the characters? If they want to ship Seungho and Nakyum and fangirl over it and you get sick with it when you are in a story that this is more than expected and common, the problem is not the shippers, it's you --- who can't express your point without making others feel below you and you think others should adjust to make you comfortable to be here.
Nobody is required to stop liking or shipping something just for you to feel better.
If people want to see romance, let them. Its not your problem. If you really think people who ship these two are immorals or stupid, be even better, refrain from making people feel trash, just say a prayer silently thanking the Gods for your higher intellect and morals. Imagine judging people you know nothing about, never saw or talked based on the fact that they ship a Seungho x Nakyum Yaoi story. Life is bigger than this and so it's our morality.
It would be perfect if stories like these were actually locked by a password, like a forbidden room only for 'immoral' perverts. Like an orgy. You don't enter an orgy just to stay there and keep preaching to everyone how nasty they are. I mean, yes, you could be a voyeur and pass silent judgment but that is exactly what you are incapable of doing it. It's not enough that you engaged in a situation that would make you feel uncomfortable, you also feel uncomfortable that others are enjoying and then you NEED to shame them for making you feel uncomfortable when it was your choice to engage in a situation that triggers you.
If you can't post your opinion without shaming others and telling them you have higher MORALS (really? the moral line is shipping rape plot yaoi?) then your argument is already flawed.
Yes, everyone has the right to opinion but somewhat I find it unnecessarily wrong and impolite to go to Shotacon for instance, start a story with a plot I despise and then proceed to hang around chapter after chapter shaming the readers who are shipping the couple and asking them to explain themselves. I can't relate to readers who enjoy Shotacon but I can relate to the idea of respecting people's taste in fiction and knowing my business is not confront them with my particular view, especially if the premise of the story is something I know in advance that I don't like it.
Stop shaming the shippers. Let them see romance. Let them root for the couple. It will not affect your life and if it does affect your enjoyment of the story... again, that is on you to adjust and decide it it's worthy it. If you feel uncomfortable with others shipping something, it's your place to excuse yourself from the situation instead of ask people to adjust to your level of comfort.
Shippers, you don't need to feel shame. Nobody pays your bills, knows your life and what you have been through.

Things we know so far:


-He's the firstborn son of the Yoon familly.

-Since his grandfather has passed away, no one of his family has took a government post.

-His family's power and influence is declining.

-He seems to have some trouble sleeping.

-He's been deeply hurt in the past that now he's very unstable and has violent mood swings.

-His whole family left him alone and took the servants.

-Mr. Kim is the only who knows his past.

-Has an extreme obsession with sex.

-Used to need help to get it up (wonder why)

-He's well known in the region as a sodomite.

-He's highly educated but lacks emotional intelligence that he can't differentiate jealousy from anger.

-Very intelligent and observant.

-Currently, developing feelings/obsession for Nakyum.




Questions/Speculations

-Why Seungho and his father didn't follow the steps of his grandfather? I read that in those times nobles would prepare themselves to aspire a high post in the government. Seugnho has more opportunities than Inhun, he's more prepared and most importantly, he has a name of power and influence. So why hasn't he tried to get one? Also, why hasn't he married yet? People married quite young in those times.

-Seungho looks like in his mid-twenties to me and Mr. Kim has worked for him since a decade, so probably he met the master when he was an teenager. So I think something happen in his adolescence that transformed him from a regular noble to a depraved and violent one.

-How old was Seungho when his family left him alone? It seems that it has passed some years since that happened, so if they left him when was young, no wonder why he turned so unstable. Sometimes when I'm reading this, he reminds me of child throwing tantrums or an angsty teen. I think he developed his sex's obsession after being abandoned, maybe his trying to fill a void with that. After all, in the Joseon era, the family played a huge role.


-Finally, did Mr. Kim chose to stay with Seugnho or it was his obligation? Does the master trust him enough that he hasn't change of servant?

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Man, I really love this series, I can't wait to learn more things about the lord's past. I think the servant is going to play a huge part on the future.



P.D. English isn't my native language, so forgive me if I have some errors.

I know it's impossible for many readers but I think to fully enjoy this story we need to make a mental effort to transport into that time period and see all the characters are men of their time.
It's a mistake to apply modern morality standard to them, because they do what men of their time and age were supposed to do.
This is valid for almost everything we denounce as wrong today but were widely accept as the norm in the past ( think about how men treated women, about slavery, about public hangings, etc, etc).
Seungho is a rich Lord, a master. Li Hiun is not as powerful but it has an intermediary status in between Seungho and NaKyum.
I'm not saying that people couldn't still be reasonable split between honorable or evil but overall, the world was much more cruel and status hierarchy ingrained.
Seungho is not a good person but I disagree to qualify him as psychopath or 'Sangwoo'. He is a Lord, used to get everything and everyone. Killing a low born clearly is not a matter of law at that time, even more raping.
To say that Seungho is a psychopath is just flat the character in my opinion. Do we see him raping or forcing sex before NaKyum? No. So, if we analyze his sexual kinks, he doesn't seem to be exactly the type that enjoys inflicting pain or raping just for the sake of it. Does he kills anyone who upsets him? Yes but just like the rape with NaKyum, this seems to be more like a sense of entitlement that the psychopath need to torture or pain.
What I am saying is that, maybe it's impossible to stop using modern standard to judge Seungho ( and InHun and Nakyum) characters but if we make the effort, we may see a more interesting story. Seungho is visibly jealous of the teacher and he has for a while desired Nakyum ( remember he saying that he would never embrace a low born). He also clearly despises the teacher so his anger is even worse because NaKyum idolizes the other man.
I think Seungho started feeling lust as the promiscuous guy that he is and he also may have only intended to fluster Nakyum with his advances but things changed when Nakyum took him for the teacher and the sex happened.
Notice that out of all things sexual Seungho could have recollected, it wasn't the hot or forced things he remembered, it was the tender moment of confession from Nakyum when he said he was happy in his arms ( when Nakyum thought it was Inhun). This is what he envies the most about the teacher right now, the affection and desire Nakyum feels for the other guy. He, of course, doesn't compute this to be romantic love nor even jealousy but all he knows right now is to have by force. He is irritated because he just doesn't know rejection and when it happens, it was from someone he would never expect to care about it.

I don't get why it's so hard for most of the people in this comment section to accept the fact that people have different opinions. If it conflicts with your own just down vote and get it over with, no one wants to hear you rant about how much better your opinion is compared to someone else's. Or the type of people here who thinks someone else's opinion is wrong whilst their opinions are right.
Can we all just agree that we love yaoi it may not be this one but let's agree to disagree and have a nice day. ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~