jasmink's Topics (548)

it’s just disgusting to see unfold when we know he’s a slave, and had a timeline where he was able to have a relatively normal life as a knight of the crown prince, and was one of the only characters that sympathized with villainess penelope. now because of reincarnated penelope’s mistake, he has to be given the worst characterization to shield her from any real accountability and to make the audience forget the fact that her carelessness directly put his future in the worst possible route that makes him go insane and killed.

GIRL LOUDER OMG WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING FROM THE START

I agree for the most part. I wish the side characters had as much importance as the main ones. Eclise is not allowed to prioritise anything other than Penelope. Other than the fact he hated her so much at the beginning but later came to love her, other than his horrible life choices I can't really see much of him. I think other MLs had more of a life. I don't think being a slave is in the way for that.

I think that that is one of the disgusting aspects of master slave dynamic. The 'slave' does not think about anything other than their master. Slavery as a real thing that happened is not really explored. It's played for pleasure.

But there is something I disagree on, it's not very fair to say all the things that a man did wrong was the woman's fault. He is not a child, he can make his own choices. I'm not taking Penelope's side, just all women in general. Penelope was also very selfish, she said she is going to be very selfish and will use others to the furthest extent.

She was trying to replicate what he had previously for him if I am not mistaken. While I don't know what she was trying to achieve after she got his affection, before everything went south that was the goal I think. She did not expect it to turn into obsession.

I mean he lived after he loved the other girl last time right ?

But then if you follow the logic of the story they all died right ? Was that how it went. Sorry I can't really remember much of that

you have to take the power imbalance into consideration, they are not equals. penelope is a noble woman with formal education (she’s arguably more educated because of her past life), while eclise is a slave. i can absolutely criticize penelope for meddling with his story line and putting him in the worst route as a reincarnated who knows the story. to add he’s not a child but he’s a severely impacted individual who needed proper, professional care, something she decided to be in charge of and responsible for when she BOUGHT him (not broke him out). she absolutely needs to be held accountable for essentially ruining his life.

let’s not forget that there’s the aspect of mind control because of yvonne, which further broke his psyche.

Yeah that's true.

In one side it's hard to criticise her in she herself was extremely desperate. Eclise was the only life line she had. We can't really blame her for using him. I know if a stupid romance was my only way out I would be selfish in that aspect too.

Not to forget she was extremely isolated and constantly in danger. The first scene was if she refused to eat spoiled food she would be killed.

But on the other side with her modern knowledge she handled the situation extremely poorly, that I agree with. I mostly see the author's fault through Penelope's actions tbh. This was an extremely uneducated and unsympathetic approach towards a horrific experience about which the history wrote in blood.

While the power imbalance is very much true I don't really think professional help is even available ? I think she needs it first if it is there. Cedric had him in the easy mode, I don't think he gave that to him either.

Eclise is a prince too right ? Penelope just fell from the sky at some point neither she nor the soul before her have any form of education. She did have modern education tho. Other than the basic level it's just archeology right ?

If I am not mistaken all these things happen within at least half an year or a few months more. I don't think she can even learn anything with how many things were going on

If I am being honest I feel sorry for Eclise's people more than anything. Maybe that's why I don't feel that much sympathy towards him.
Imagine your country got genocided and the remaining few thousands or so civilians are reduced to lower than animals and then this last spark of a hope you had towards freedom under the leadership of your prince, turns out he was just chasing after a woman for his own personal gain.

I especially hate the part where Cedric said those people deserved it because they didn't know how to be grateful to Penelope cause she gave them medicine and necessities. I don't think that tracks. They did use those stuff to rebel but they wanted to be free, once again Eclise was the one who urged them on and all those supplies reached them through Eclise.

I understand that Penelope is at fault , but even when things are not going great, a horrible choice is a horrible choice. I can blame Penelope for trying to use his feelings. Her life was on the line, true. Still wrong.

The same way I can blame Eclise for using his people as meat shields to get what he wants. What's going on now is entirely his fault. Up until he brought Yvonne back home was Penelope's fault. I wish I could forget that the dungeon scene ever existed. She should've cooled her head and appologised there. I still don't think it excuses what he did but she did do him wrong.
I think that would've been a great plot point. And then go from there.

Well that's my understanding of the situation.

that’s what makes it more frustrating. yes, penelope to her credit is just trying to survive in a rigged game, but how much is too far? as harsh as the system is, story wise, it seems to be implemented to dismiss the impact her actions made, shielding her from any real accountability because “she’s just desperate and trying to survive”. because of that, nothing is truly “her fault”, to the point where people are actively brushing off and defending the fact that she’s bought a slave with the plan to groom him for her survival, (and basically using the fact that he goes insane to further justify it when penelope is the person who is directly responsible for it). there may have been an absence of professional help, but considering the existence of the timeline where he was able to have a relatively normal life, only the bare minimum was truly needed, but penelope going into it developing a relationship with him baring corrupted intentions was all it took for things to go south.

his leadership was non existent the minute he became a slave, what could he be expected to do in those circumstances other than try to escape? as a slave, penelope decided to keep him as affection fodder, not giving any real support or care to who he was as a person (the bare minimum needed for healthy affection to develop btw), so because of this, i still wouldn’t put the blame on him. he’s a victim who’s actively had his psyche damaged, with no one available to support him, and the story discourages sympathy for him by making him crazier (despite it being partly penelope’s fault he’s like that in the first place). we see the effects of how penelope’s inability to see anyone in this world as anything other than characters in a video game and how it’s actively dehumanizing them, but instead of making any real commentary with it, it’s framed in a way so she doesn’t take any real blame, and instead paints her like she’s had so much development just because of some surface level acknowledgment (with side characters actively hinting that she’s not at fault either).

the fact that eklis ends up dead is what makes this entire thing more tragic as a slave who was actively failed by everyone around him. (i’m not 100% sure but apparently in the novel, she doesn’t do anything to try and abolish the slavery system once she’s empress either, showing that the experience truly taught her nothing).

oh and im not saying this to imply you’re not understanding by the way, im just broadening my point a little more. if you still can’t excuse eklis actions that’s understandable, even if i disagree, don’t worry.

Woah that is a very good analysis of the situation

If Penelope genuinely loved him and their plot was the main one that would've been very nice. I think that could've lead to an amazing outcome, imagine if she gained control of the duchy and succeeded as the successor. I will finally believe that the duke is truly appologetic and thinks her a true child of his

Is it still going to Derrick ? Fk that guy. Still can't figure out what his issue is. Imagine her petitioning to abolish slavery lol. Can u do that in a medieval fantasy setting ?

Nvm we can atleast start a spark. An abolishanist MC ! There have always been people who from the bottom of their heart believed it is bad and nothing could excuse it. My favourite guy Benjamin Lay from 18th century. I don't think even most of us from this century has the balls him and his wife had

The slavery point was not even thought of after she became an empress cause it was just a plot point for the author. That's what I'm saying ! It's all her fault !!! Is it so hard to research about the topic if you are going to use it !!

The fact his psyche was in no shape to be leader, that point is so very true. While that does not negate his actions I can see how that would happen. For the Eclise now I still don't feel much sympathy tbh but I do get your point and it's very valid

But I really liked Eclise in the beginning, the moment him and Penelope just sat on the bench together and just accompanied each other is one of the favourite scenes of mine. Just two people who were literally at the edge of their rope. I just don't know what happened as the story went on

All of a sudden he is always pushed off the screen or reduced to literally crawling at the edge of a one. Except for after Eclise brought Yvonne back I don't think there was anything noteworthy happening between Penelope and Eclise

I think it is this trend of making the most powerful person the ML. Another guy who is not as much influencial can accompany her through thick and thin but then this powerful guy whether it's powers, rank or money comes along then all of a sudden she falls in love. The character doesn't pursue him because he is the best, but the author does it for her

I think it was the "I was the real daughter all along", still when I remember it just pisses me off

Here since Cedric is the best, the author took his route, besided Yvonne became empress last time, can't make Penelope anything less right ? I love how Cedric treats her but c'mon

The plot does make it impossible to hold her accountable. My girl did suffer so much, but she only at the end started to see the people there as humans. And I hate that sloppy apology in the recent chapter too. I don't get the point of that.

These authors be picking up trauma of all kind and then when it comes to concluding it just tossing it out the window for their own convenience

The affection fodder it very true. He was the easiest target. Derrick was actively malicious, Renold was a wild card, Cedric a mad man who literally kills at a drop of a hat and Vinter was too busy with welfare and political activism. Eclise had nothing. You could give him 3 meals a day and that would be enough to farm gratitude. You just had to do bare minimum.

Dang this is a really cool convo I'm having with u, I can see stuff in a totally different angle

It's still not entirely her fault tho, I'm still on that hill lol but she is very much at fault , Eclise too! But the one I blame the most is the author. I can literally see the plot thinning out and her typing away in the background of it all

Btw spoiler , don't read if u don't wanna know
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Eclise lives. All his poeple dies I think. He comes back with amnesia but knows that he hates Penelope deeply and tries to choke her I think ? She lies that they are enemies and she owes him and she betrayed him or something like that. Cannot remember, sorry hun. And then he just leaves

Who are you supposed to be

Right

Who are you ?

fr