Three things:
1) Prologue in the manhwa can be considered incorrect. Prince actually didn't do 90% of the things shown. Can be either considered narrative bias in Tia's eyes or manhwa creator didn't really follow the story novel well enough. Prince died in first life grieving for Tia.
2) Jieun returning in this timeline this time? People shouldn't worry. Prince Ruve had only eyes on Tia, and no one but Tia, the whole time. They will confront the wounds of their first lives (though prince of first life is treated as a separate person by both of them)Treat Jieun as the antagonist of first half of this arc, then Duke Zena in second half for story purposes.
3) enjoy the story.
You are way to biased...
. He let the execution happen, so it is on him. The fact that he didn't smile change nothing, as well has his regrets. Like Tia said "What good does it make to someone who is already dead?". He was abusive (slapped her often for nothing) and didn't care enough to try to understand her. The poison did not take his rationality away, it just made him have fit of rage occasionally. And yes, the "lick my shoes" part was not, but the real version is just as bad with rape by coertion)
I said 90% of the things that happened in the PROLOGUE didn't happen, I didn't say he didn't do anything at all. This all the while under the influence of the drug and the poisoning of his mind against Tia, which is something that never happened in the second timeline because she became a knight, thus, stirring the future away to a new outcome and allowed Ruve to know her as she truly is.
Asked her to lick her feet? Never happened.
Comforted Jeun while smiling at her execution? Never happened. Not only did it not happen, it failed to describe the emotions he felt when he saw Tia's face before the axe fell, that even though he was powerless, he was still about to STOP the execution right there until he changed his mind, after Jieun stopped him. This you can blame him for. He died regretting this.
Looking fully manipulative and in control while telling her her dad died? Didn't happen. He spat that out whatever came to mind, thinking she lowered herself to sell her body to him after sleeping with him, which made him feel stirring emotions. Let's not forget that her dad is ALIVE the whole time, and he didn't understand why he, as well as other nobles, didn't plead for her innocence. Instead, her father preferred the execution to happen based on her honor.
There are many more. What the prologue DID get right was Tia's confusion on why he was panicked and cared for her more than she thought. This was a glimpse of the inner storm turmoil of feelings Ruve had for her: he thinks she was nothing more than a mechanical doll, a pawn used by her faction to undermine his influence, but he had real feelings for her, which he never knew until her death.
The whole prologue was based on TIA's narrative, and of course the novelist would've expounded on Ruve's side as well. What the manhwa should have done, is to be neutral in its story of the past. The two perspectives are completely conflicting, and unfortunately, took Tia's side on this one.
* The prince spent more time agonizing over his relationship with Tia then Jieun, it was nowhere as one sided as the prologue had shown. In fact, he already began to lower his opinion of Jieun even before the execution happened. It was the relationship between Tia and Ruve that the faction wanted to tear apart completely, and in first timeline, succeeded.
Tia is not that an unreliable narrator. A lot of the actions presented were actually done or worse in the novel (they switched the shoes part for exemple because the actual scene was to sickening to be drawn), so saying "90% did not happen" is overdoing it. For the relashionship part, he did hate Tia and he said it himself. He didn't want to see even one or her hair. He also hated her at the beggining of the second timeline. He never loved her in the first timeline because he didn't knew who she really was. It was all regret for what he had done and the realisation that he tortured someone who cared from for no reason at all.
It was a prologue that was biased from the very start, it skewed the narrative enough to cause readers’ hatred of the prince and painted a rather incorrect picture of the whole thing. Tia was an unreliable narrator in the sense that we are viewing the prologue through HER eyes, with the mistaken understanding that the prince completely abhorred her and smiled at her execution. He never did.
Nobody said he fell in love with her in the first timeline. But his entire story speaks of his actions that were influenced or stirred by his feelings for Tia, that he suppressed for obvious reasons, and all this takes a backseat to the brainwashing and Jieun, who he thought was his symbol of love in his life.
Throughout the whole story, you could tell he was at peace AS HE DIES thinking of Tia. The only thing he thought of was his childhood memories with Tia, and even when he took his last breath, he never stopped thinking of Tia, and imagined himself reunited with her. So anyone who’s read the prologue as it stands has an incomplete understanding of how things really went, and hence, all this hate for Ruve. That’s that then.
They explained everything based off of the novel with webtoons/manhwa/manga adaptations they don't go into depth like novels so the original comment wasn't wrong. They broke down every single thing that happened in the prologue that was wrong. On top of that there was many factor for the prince to hate Tia and all of it wasn't his fault he was just vulnerable enough to to be used as a pawn
No offense but I'm noticing these things about majority of Chinese manhua targeting at ladies:
1) Stiff, amateurish artwork.
2) Poor structure of storyline and story FLOW
3) Yet another slag ML (either he's a rich CEO playboy or a rich Cold CEO)
4) Pathetic MC. She acts and talks like she'll sway wherever the wind blows. Give me Su Luxia anytime.
5) Out of place chibis
I will give this a pass.
It’s always been like thatmost plots are the same lol. Even if there are different authors, the arts look the same as well.
Agreed. I prefer chinese novels whereas for comics, korean manhwa and japanese manga are better
true. sometimes it would start off good but then around the middle you don’t know wth is going on until you lose interest. dialogues are also cheesy and borderline rapey. the only chinese manhwa i love is chang ge xing (chouka kou) by xia da, which, unfortunately, is n indefinite hiatus because the publisher scammed her and she could’t get the copyright to her works back
I hope that readers will come to appreciate this title for what it is: a transmigrated heroine working her way and triumphantly overcoming the traps of the inner harem. (I wrote a post about the Emperor and his concubines here: http://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/5895738/ )
It is a somewhat realistic portrayal of how it is in the ancient times. You won't find an overpowered MC slapping everyone's faces and stomping on the Emperor before running off with the second ML. Instead, you'll find a story about a modern woman forging alliances with other concubines, keeping useful relationships close to her, protecting herself and weaving her way through many traps, using her wits to stay above her rivals. There will be face slapping, but done with wit. You will eventually learn more about the official concubine selections, and other customs that even the Emperor could not abolish... yet. What I'm reading here, is not about a slut Emperor spreading his seeds, but an Emperor who is genuinely in love with His Empress, despite being tied down by the political factions and his responsibility towards many many things. So I would like to ask readers to give this a chance, to not compare this to other villainess works here. They have different focuses.
You can watch Yanxi Palace or Ruyi's Love in the Palace to brush up on your knowledge of the Emperor and his harem. Doing so would change your mindset now that you understand why people do things the way they do here. The MC here is already miles and MILES ahead compared to them, simply in the basis of having the Emperor be completely utterly honest with her, and him being genuinely in love with her.
My issue with this isn't so much that the emperor has a harem, but that he's so weak and simple minded. Yes you have to have these other women and even spend time with them even if you don't want to, but he can still back the empress more solidly. Instead he gets decevied by the concubines and the MC has to scheme and plot and manipulate to remind him of his feelings to get him to side with her. If he was really someone she could rely on for trust and support, she could have just told him about the Imperial Concubine scheme and how/why she wanted to have the other concubine's child given to her. Instead the MC had to show him a painting of them together and stir up his feelings to get him not to hand over the child. I understand there are limits to what he can do to these concubines, but he could still be unified with the MC within the parameters of these restrictions.
What's more annoying than the emperor though is the MC. The fact that she, a modern woman, is falling in love with this weak willed man who has multiple women and even children with these woman and especially SO QUICKLY makes no sense to me. It makes it hard to forgive the emperor on the excuse that the situation is realistic when the idea that this 20th century women could accept this harem relationship enough to love the ML is so unrealistic.
I don't know of any manga or drama's that do this better but I think some novels that do are: Dreamer In The Spring Boudoir, The Feast, The Delicate Prince and His Shrewd Peasant Consort. In all of these, the ML has a harem but it's done so much better. The Feast, I think, is particularly great because the ML & transmigrating MC actually have a conversation about this issue. Even though she has some feelings for him (after a year of being his 'wife') she tells him that she can't love him because she can't accept sharing him with multiple woman. He responds that he can't get rid of his other wives and concubines because (a) politics and (b) he made a commitment to them and has to honor that. That was such a fair response; both of them had stances that made sense for people coming from two different eras.
In contrast, the MC being all 'its okay for me to love him cuz he's nice!' just feels so air headed that I can't take her seriously. It's not even like she inherited the former body owner's memory and so is maybe overlapping those with her own feelings. Nope. She just thinks he's hot and nice to her so she's gonna be in love :
Thoughtful reply (although Dreamer in the Soring Boudoir's case, the marquis had more flexibility and freedom in terms of how he dealt with his own concubines). I have my own qualms about the character of the MC and the Emperor, but leaving all that aside, it was really the sheer amount of 'the Emperor is a CHEATER, he has a harem, she should run off with the second male lead and etc' comments that I just had to post, that it's not as simple as that.
Much has not been explored about the Emperor here, but from what we've seen, we can deduce that 1) he loves the Empress 2) he wants to protect her with his own strength 3) he can't do anything against the established customs (you'll see this in the upcoming chapters 4) other characters are aware he remains naive in a sense and 5) both Emperor and Original Empress have been outwitted by the harem before. But honestly, I will take this, over a scheming, selfish Emperor who threw away His Empress for 3000 women. That's why I'm more forgiving to him, because he's shown to at least love His Empress, leaving his flaws aside. I suppose it comes down to your preferences.
'Even though she has some feelings for him (after a year of being his 'wife') she tells him that she can't love him because she can't accept sharing him with multiple woman. He responds that he can't get rid of his other wives and concubines because (a) politics and (b) he made a commitment to them and has to honor that. That was such a fair response; both of them had stances that made sense for people coming from two different eras.'
I forgot to add that I loved this part as well, and I wish this manhwa could've a conversation of something just as similar. It explains to the readers why the harem is here to stay (unless they abolish the harem, but I haven't seen any that's done in a believable way.)
By the end the Marquis had more freedom, but in the beginning I'd argue he was just as restricted as the emperor. He was just more clever, cunning, and intelligent than the emperor here. He was scheming and even manipulating the concubines against each other to keep any of them from having a child and no one (including the women themselves and even the reader) figured it out.
I completely agree with you that the emperor is better "in comparison to", but even if he's better than, falling in love with him so quick just seems so stupid for a modern woman to do. So ultimately my problem is really more with the MC than with him. I don't like the emperor, but his flaws are believable so I can except. The MC, not so much.
Yes, this! Regardless how you feel about a harem, you had to respect the ML for not just tossing these women in the trash once his "true love" showed up. It's such a good exchange because you empathize with both sides and the morals fueling them.
Half of me wants a The Feast webtoon, but the other half of me fears them doing so and botching it by losing the nuance and gray areas with the female characters who aren't or oppose the FL. (see: I don't want to be Empress!)
I would say, rather than being restricted, the Marquis simply had -no reason- to abolish his own harem in the beginning. For reasons like what you said, they serve as his tools and he made use of them just fine. It wasn't until the Marquis genuinely fell in love in both scenarios - if I recall right, he 1) dismissed everyone and had a happy ending with the Heroine in novel and 2) he dismissed his harem after falling in love with transmigrated heroine and settled all the issues at the end. In both scenarios, he had every power to, just that earlier on, there was no reason to. Anyway, I liked the novel despite its criticisms though, happy to see another reader here.
The rest of my replies got cut off! Oh well, mangago doesn't like a smiley face and I just pretty much echoed your sentiments lol.
Earlier on, he had to keep the harem because of the struggle between the princes. All of them had some kind of political backing that he had to keep in check. One of the women was planted in his harem by a prince-- the white lotus one, who pretending to be sick; that's why even when she schemed things and he and the grandma knew she did it, they couldn't punish her until Sangyu schemed her back. And even Wanwan (Wen wan?) was being backed by a prince (a different one than the white lotus). Most of his concubines and wives, including Sangyu, had a connection to one of the princes struggling for the throne. That's also why even when he started to like Sangyu he kept claiming he didn't and that his true love was WenWan -- Sangyu's cousin was one of the princes vying for the throne and if it looked like he was too close to her then that could be taken as supporting that prince. But he also couldn't get rid of any of the woman because that would also be a political statement of backing or rejecting. It's also why he didn't let any of his women have children and had so many, he had to balance them so that it couldn't be taken as backing any particular prince.
By the end of the story it doesn't matter, because the new emperor is a child and the ML is basically the ruler behind the throne. He didn't exactly disband the harem though...the story contrived itself so that all his concubines either died or committed crimes bad enough to get them punished. He still has one concubine by the end of the story he just doesn't visit her. Also his heir is the son of a concubine.
I loved Spring Boudoir okay. Not nearly as much as The Feast, but I really appreciated that Sangyu always put herself first and was so pragmatic about everything, including her relationship with the ML.
Exactly! İ only read half of your comment but completely agree! How the hell modern woman like her falled him who has many wives and children while doesn't even how good personality
You are:
Team Ruve - thumbs up
Team 'anyone but Ruve pls' - thumbs down
I wanted to hit both.. ah, im conflicted
i am gonna drop this if she ends up with Ruve.(╯°Д °)╯╧╧
i don't care how much he cares and loves her now. he was a fricking ass in her privious life and ruined her mentally and physically. (╬￣皿￣)凸 he didn't pay for it then thats why he has to pay for it in this lifetime.
not with death or anything but with the reality of her choosing someone else over him!!! ┑(￣Д ￣)┍
Period. My thoughts exactly.
Who do you want Heli to be with?
Thumbs up - Medea
Thumbs down - Psyche
Please excuse my frankness, but I am not sure how to put this. On one hand, I am very happy that the series has switched ships, vigorously I might add. Heil x river needs to sail.
On the other hand... something about the writing of this entire grandma arc bothers me. The grandma acts nothing like an elderly woman would; she prances around like a child, despite knowing that inside, she truly is a grandmother. Second thing is, I felt the author just needed a bit more restraint and creativity in getting her points across. Yes, we know that Khaol is a bastard and grandma is sorry she put the kids through that. I just think it could’ve been written in a better way; it’s a classic step of ‘show, not tell’ I couldn’t help but feel that, in maybe showing less, she could’ve delivered all these points more powerfully and poetically. Rather than saying out loud “Khaol is a bastard” or “Grandma is sorry I put you guys through it, go get your revenge or whatever” It’s just so abrupt, so /flat/ that I don’t feel anything at all from these scenes. Again, do show, not tell. A scene where Grandma realizes the heartbreak her grandchild experienced, leading to this scene, might’ve driven the point home and made it more emotional.
Edit: And how could I forget the plot hole. Grandma wasn’t able to become a bride because she couldn’t see, thus her sister took her place. Er, what happened to that reasoning?
But I’ll be honest here: I am here for Heil x River. Bad writing or plot holes be damned, I just want to see them kiss. There I admit it. Once they do, I’ll shamelessly make a WALLPAPER out of it.
Maybe Khaol didn't come for her ceremony, so the family offered the other sister and he accepted. This could lead to her feeling that she was defective and became obsessive about Forest being Khaol's bride.
It was unexpected to see the grandma in such childlike form, and the different personality contrast. Take it as author's creativity and comedic humour in their reunion (⌒▽⌒)
I’ve pretty much come to terms with it all, and reminded myself why I stuck with the title in the first place: Heil is hot, he deserves some loving, and it looks like River is gonna wake up and smell the coffee.
Expert Chinese historians may correct me on this, but here is why the Emperor acted the way he did with the concubines:
The higher ranked concubines represent a certain amount of influence and power in the court. For example, Lady Xiao's family (the brown haired lady who threw the mom concubine under the bus) wield political power in court and in the armies. She, as well as other concubines, cannot be sentenced blindly to death or through other grotesque methods, not unless the Emperor wants to destroy any form of backing he has in the political courts. The Emperor needs to proceed with caution on how to deal with the ladies - they are more than just concubines, but a symbol of power of the families they represent. It is likely many of them were even offered up by prestigious families, which the Emperor accepted mainly to gain support for his causes. Reading on this manga’s Emperor, it is likely the case.
Only when the Emperor stands above everything, has solidified his own power in court to run the country without depending on their families, can he truly give them the punishment and sentence they deserved. From what it looks like here, he doesn't seem to have that power. The fact that the Emperor actually shared his true feelings about the harem to the Empress is surprising and enough to show where he stands.
The Emperor generally does not involve himself in the politics of the harem - this is the Empress's duty. For the Emperor to do so means to overstep his boundaries and entirely undermine the Empress's influence, disrespecting her and mocking her authority in front of the concubines. He also doesn't have the time to. The Emperor focuses on running the country, while the Empress handles the harem, and would sometimes seek advice from Empress dowager to an extent. Most of the time, the Emperor may not know what is going on behind the scenes, and he does not need to know. If he knows, he will still hear it officially from the Empress. It is her domain, and she will be the mouthpiece. This is why many times, Emperors would ask,"is there anything you want to tell me?" If she says no, despite him being aware of the politics, then there is nothing he can do: the Empress chooses to fight in her own terms, while ensuring this burden doesn't add to his worries in focusing on his own task, that is, to run a nation after all.
If any of these concubines were to be sentenced to death, there needs to be proof that they either 1) commit treason 2) commit murder on any royalty. Generally, when it gets to this point, once the concubine is either sentenced to cold palace or death, their families usually follow suit, either by demotion (If in higher positions), or in extreme cases, extermination of nine generations (For treason). This is why there are so many wordplays and schemes, concubines laying out traps to topple the other. Very rarely, do you see them fighting in the open directly. To play harem politics, each learns how to 1) survive 2) climb up the hierarchy. Think office politics: You do not climb up the ladder by screaming and throwing a tantrum. You play the game wisely. This is what the concubines and empress are doing. The concubines fight for survival and power; the Empress fight to maintain her authority and ensures not one of them usurps her position and her life. The schemes can be extremely dirty, especially when a male foetus/baby is involved (there is potential for the child to be the next heir, therefore, solidifying the power of the mother.)
The western ideals and ways do not work here. Being direct with your words does not work. It's not the way the Chinese operates in the ancient times. In some cases, it may cause your downfall, and be used against you by other concubines. Know that there are indeed other manhwa like Cheating Men Must Die that ignores all this because well, OP MCs are OP, but also know that it is not an accurate representation of harem dynamics, and this title is doing a good job at trying to be realistic at least.
Perhaps watching the crazy popular Yanxi Palace might give you an idea of how the inner harem works. The main character starts from the bottom up, and topples every concubine with her wits and boldness and fights back schemes all without screaming bloody murder.
i love this comment
THANK YOU! Finally someone that actually knows what in the hell they are talking about! It drives me up the freaking wall to hear people trying to put western practices on eastern practices. Even in this day and age there still Chinese families that follow the old traditions of having four wives. These practices are not as ancient as some westerners may think. The practice of a monogamous marriage in China is still a very new concept. Only common in the last 100 hundred years, if even that long, so I find it idiotic when people insist that a period times manga with a harem should follow a western tradition of marriage. Even in the western countries marriage was used to unite families of power, and prestige or for political backing, all that's happening here is the same thing on a larger scale. This is how empires where made and alliances kept. So again, thank you for educating those that keep trying to put western values on an ancient eastern culture by insisting the Emperor know more about what goes on in the Harem and that he should marry only one woman.
The drama that you mentioned (Story of Yanxi Palace) is a really good example of harem politics. I’m currently watching and it’s extremely interesting. Y’all should watch if you get the chance too.
I think the MC should be accepted for who she is: a true villainess MC who became the person we see now because she got screwed over before, and now will use any opportunity to her advantage. This means showing her in a less than noble light. This also means she will do less than ethical things, think scheming thoughts. There are already so many, many, MANY other villainess manhwa out there who has a heart of gold, who are MEANT to be liked, saving the world with her goodness and purity - at least give this manhwa credit for portraying something different. This manhwa is not common because of that, and it doesn't fall into the stereotypical tropes out there. Can't we just appreciate Aria for her schemes instead of trying to force her into another Bakarina, Elise, Penelope, and other heroines. This means not apologizing for who Aria is. She will have her revenge, and she won't whitewash things. If you don't like this setup, maybe it's time to drop the manga and read something else. /rant
yes i totally a agree
After finishing the novel I can say that she is a 'bad' person is she true evil? No but if you really look at her 'revenge' from an outsider's pov you can see some glaring points like what gave her the right to fight the true daughter etc. She is neither good nor bad, the only thing to keep in mind is her 'reputation' something she cares about. She's a really good villain MC!
Right!! This girl had her head chopped off. She was a brat before, coming back. It makes no sense to me when villans get reincarnated and all of a sudden they have a heart of gold. Like you cant change who you are so easily. But my girl aria gonna fake it till she makes it. And lets be honest most of us would react the same way she does. After everything she has been through, she has trust issues and wants whats best for her. But if I was her, I probably wouldnt be as smart as her as she plans every single move. I really enjoy this, as you can see her true intentions. She aint about that bs
Ning Shu is one of my favorite MCs, and I follow the novel regularly when I can. She is the type of MC that respects the wishes of the original host, and ensures she leaves the world intact for the soul to come back. You can say its the opposite of Cheatjng Men Must Die, but MC is no less brave or kickass, just that she does it in a different way. She's very rational, level headed and ensures her revenge plans don't wreck the storyline world for original host.
Well, with that said, I'm basing my opinion on the novel (I've read 1000+ chapters so far) haven't read the manga yet and novel is one of my favorites. If manga isn't done well, I would understand why. Most Chinese manhwa are mediocre. (Edit: they skipped FIVE arcs, the second which marks Ning Shu as a worthy transmigrated heroine. Plus, manga didn't flow well, I'd say read novel instead.)
And Ning Shu doesn't have an ML. It's one of the series' charms: she can focus on her task without any Chinese cold blooded CEO yandere getting in her way lol.