kyoong's Topics (260)

just finished hamin’s flower (ch60) OMG I WAS CRYING THE WHOLE TIME this isn’t funny at all im so sad i wont ever be able to move on ever.

Me too bro… I don’t think I’ve ever cried reading a manwha but I have tears in my eyes I’m so sad it’s so beautiful and emotional

I thought I was the only one bawling my eyes out reread the entire thing day and I was sobbing

Yeah. Callisto may be the true love and all, had a redemption arc, but he still almost killed her first meeting

I mean that’s true but that was a while ago, and it’s explained it’s because of his trauma due to being targeted by almost everyone for assassination. And if I remember correctly, Penelope understood that or knew at least.

I am happy they’ll be endgame. Out of all MLs, I say Callisto is truly deserving or at least good match for her.

I haven’t been up to date, did Callisto do something bad?

No, I’m happy he’s an endgame too. But trauma or not, he did try to kill her. I don’t think realistically that justifies it. He’s also overall a quite violent person though he tries to change that for her. I don’t dislike him, and he’s definitely the best end game, MC is also not a saint. I’m just saying that if there would be a choice of her running away and living happily alone, I would’ve chosen that. Even if he’s the best choice, he’s still kinda a red flag. I do like them together tho And he didn’t do anything wrong, actually he only had a further character development

But actually, writing wise, I do think they didn’t do the best job with their chemistry. Maybe it was due to her not being able to focus on anything other than survival, but I feel like the chemistry between them is quite stiff. It’s just missing smth

I feel like Penelope would want to be loved by someone at the very least, so I don’t think living alone would be a happy option. She’s gone through a lot and living alone feels suffocating in my opinion.

As for red flag or not, I don’t think we should label cause there’s more to it than a vague label being put on characters with trauma. My point was that he didn’t try to kill without a reason. I don’t think he’s perfect nor Penelope. And I agree that maybe it’s because Penelope focused on surviving, her chemistry with Callisto isn’t really great.

If he’s gotten further character development, I wouldn’t say red flag or anything. I just hope he doesn’t revert back somehow and keeps Penelope happy.

Maybe she wouldn’t wanna be alone, but if it was and option and it wasn’t established that Callisto is the ML and she had history with him, I’m sure she would feel more relieved if her loved one wasn’t one of the main characters in the game. Like, I think it would feel like she can’t escape it then, she’s still tied to it by them.
Also, about red flags, yes he is a red flag. Usually people who are red flags are people with some deep trauma and issues. Hurt people hurt people. And killing innocent people without any proof they mean to harm you is wrong either way. His reason wasn’t good. He’s a fictional character so it’s okay. But real world wise, trauma is NOT an excuse. It’s one’s responsibility to heal, like for example through therapy. People don’t get the right to hurt others just because they have traumas. It doesn’t work like that.
He mostly had character development towards Penelope, which is why he’s an okay choice for ML, it’s a fiction so it doesn’t matter. But he still threatens (and would kill if she didn’t dislike violence) people, he’s a red flag and that’s fine, because he’s a fictional character. But he’s a red flag nevertheless. I can admit that and still like him.

Trauma’s are reasons, not justifications.

Nobody said it was justifications. It’s just an explanation on why he did that, and if I remember correctly Callisto suspected her.

Like you said, traumas are reasons, so it’s not like Callisto WANTED to hurt anyone. If anything he was forced to, just like how Penelope is trying to survive.

Wait did Callisto kill innocent people? I have yet to catch up on this because I’m stuck on catching up other stories. Even if he’s fictional, no it’s not something okay, it’s just not as scary cause it’s not real life. Which people does he threaten? Does he do it because of bad people or does he do it because he enjoys harming people? Is my question.

I’d say it’s a red flag and sociopath if it’s something where a person enjoys doing what they do, when it comes to harming others and threatening. Unfortunately in a society like the one he is in, the game, the hierarchy and all that nobility, that’s expected.

One can’t be nice in a place where people scheme around and gossip, trash others, etc. Penelope has also threatened to survive, she has trauma too and does things her way to survive, it’s only natural with how shitty her family is, so has other side characters I believe. That’s why I say it’s kinda vague to just label it “red flag”, it can be different interpretations to others and just calling it red flag isn’t enough in my opinion.

But if that works for you, that’s valid.

2) And I kinda agree with you that if I had to label him, he would be somewhat a red flag but it’s just hard for me to call him red flag when he’s just trying to survive and get around certain situations.

Also you’re absolutely right about: Hurt people Hurt others.

I’m not talking about him hurting people when he was forced into it. But doing it just because he feels like it. Doesn’t matter he suspected her cause had no evidence to back it up

I don’t think it was ever mentioned whether people he hurt were innocent, but I wouldn’t put it past him as he tried hurting Penelope before. Also he almost killed Yvonne, which is a good thing cause we know she’s a bad person, the thing is… he doesn’t know that. Which is why I find his morals somewhat questionable. I do think he’s the kind of person that could kill u cause u pissed him off. Idk if he enjoys it but I for sure think he doesn’t think much about it, like he doesn’t seem to value other people’s lives?
And I think Penelope is a red flag too. I def like her more because she never really went as far as threatening innocent person’s life, and also she knows who is bad and who isn’t. I do like her, but realistically relationship wise she’s def a red flag. She’s in survival mode, so it’s understandable.
For me the label of a “red flag” is a simple label of people who are too toxic to be in healthy relationships. It’s not a label of them exactly as good or bad person, just in the aspect of relationships and involvement with them.

Then don’t take it as red flag = bad person. Take that label in aspect of relationships. I think both of them are more on a scale of morally grey people, as I’ve said I’m not sure of him cause he did threat people he didn’t know are bad or good. But Penelope is definitely morally grey and that’s one of my favorite type of characters.

Yeah, that’s why I think everyone should just go to therapy/heal before entering relationships

I don’t think he did it because he just feels like it, he was trying to survive and suspected her, regardless of no evidence, but he did hurt someone while trying to. None of the characters or at least the main ones are completely flawless or “green flag”. They each have traumas and express it or show it differently.

I doubt Callisto would ever harm someone who isn’t harming him. The only time he did to Penelope was when they first met in the garden I believe, iirc, he pointed a sword at her and causing her neck to bleed a bit. Of course it’s still wrong, but that also just shows how paranoid he must’ve been or just suspicious of everyone around him.

As for Penelope, I agree she’s not as fucked up as Callisto. This is also probably because she has the system in her hand or something, somewhere she could get info from. Honesty I forgot if her past self had went into a novel or game or both and got memories, has info on everyone type of story.

Their relationship has progressed which I’m glad about and Callisto’s development. I doubt he would want to hurt Penelope, but since they’re two people with traumas, something is bound to happen, life can’t go on without drama here and there.

Unfortunately therapy isn’t something of existence in their timeline I believe, and pretty sure it’s something looked down upon, I mean the mental health stuff. But they can definitely work it out together somehow, communication is best. In modern time, yes they should head to therapy before burdening others with their mental issues, no offense to anyone, but it is a burden at times.

Also yes I agree that Callisto may not value others lives as much due to how much he was targeted for assassination, he will probably continue to suspect anyone and may kill them to protect himself and or Penelope. I personally don’t think he enjoys killing because he knows what it’s like to be targeted.

For me, as long as he doesn’t harm himself or Penelope or the good ones by their side, I could care less.

Yeah, I never said there’s any green flag in this story They all toxic in their own ways. Also, I don’t think it was just a bit, I do think he almost killed her. She said he almost decapitated her and that when he cut Yvonne it was even more shallow than when he cut her. But yeah, idk, personally I do see him as someone capable of killing a person if they annoy him too hard. And again, suspicions aren’t very convincing reason to me, he can’t just cut everyone he’s slightly suspicious of (for no reason too).
Also, yeah I said he wouldn’t hurt Penelope. He changed towards her, but I don’t think he changed that much overall as a person. That’s why I said his character development was mostly targeted towards Penelope.
I also didn’t talk about therapy in their aspect, that’s why I said real world wise. I’m their aspect, I’m just talking about healing themselves. Also, yes, I agree that everyone should figure their shit out. Not even that it can be burdensome because I think that’s a harsh way of putting it, but that someone’s hurting their partner due to their own issues. And no one can expect others to solve their shit for them, sure lovers can help with that but it’s not their responsibility to do so.
And for Callisto, I think personally, you’re kinda giving him or the author too much credit. From how the webtoon is written it doesn’t seem like “he looks down on people cause of trauma and doesn’t enjoy doing it cause he knows how it feels to be targeted”. If that’s what author actually tried to deliver then they did a bad job. I don’t see that at all. I think it’s just the typical cold ML and nobility stuff. If someone is lower than you then you don’t value them as much, especially if you’re as self-centered as he is. Cold = You annoy me, you die, you should fear me, kind of character. I don’t think it’s that deep. I just think he is indifferent towards anyone he doesn’t have personal feelings for (like Penelope) and therefore doesn’t think much about killing them or not. I don’t think he enjoys it but I also don’t think he hates it, I think he’s indifferent about it. Also, again, killing people just cause u suspect them for no reason is just unreasonable and bad. He wouldn’t even protect anyone then, because he has no proof there was any danger in the first place. I doubt they would make him do that as if he would kill someone innocent then that would kinda ruin his character for both readers and Penelope.
I just don’t like bad people, reality or fiction. Morally grey is okay for me, but anything past that… That’s also why I rarely ever like villains.

Also, I don’t think his indifference about killing comes as much from his assassination trauma as it does from the fact that he’s been fighting at wars so much he just got desensitized to death.

That is also true. War PTSD.

Dude almost decapitated her and somehow they’re together haha. And I’m not saying he should harm with just plain suspicions, but it’s just that’s how he is, with his shitty upbringing. If he suspects someone he will most likely try to find out using cold methods.

I agree he didn’t change as a person, just towards Penelope. And no I’m not saying you were talking about the fantasy world for therapy, but me just adding onto it, and how I wished there would be some form of therapy in a world/time like theirs, and how unfortunate it is that there’s no care towards mental health back then, it was horrible in the past with how many people looked down on mental health and the hierarchy stuff.

It can be burdensome though, at least in my experience when I had to deal with my ex’s emotional turmoils and him being emotionally abusive, so yes it is a burden cause of his mental outbursts. Not all mentally ill people are to that extent, but it’s possible and some will find it burdensome. You’re right that it’s not the partner’s responsibility, although I also felt that I should’ve looked after him a bit more enough to send him to therapy. But that was years ago and he’s in a better place now.

I’m not saying Callisto looks down on others because of his trauma ALONE, but his trauma does contribute to who he is today, his actions and how he sees other people. I personally have read worse stories with trash MLs than Callisto, and he hasn’t killed any innocent ones I assume. And that’s one reason why I don’t care too much about the past, him hurting Penelope during their first meet, him being shittier than now, I’ve grown used to some toxic MLs, and this one is at the bottom of the list for toxic ones imo. If he did kill someone innocent, yeah I agree

I wonder if Callisto ever apologized for his actions towards Penelope? I only remember them talking to each other in the cave about their trauma or back story something.

I honestly don’t think this story’s writing is that good. But I barely find anything original nowadays so I am not too picky either. The art is nice but the plot kinda bores me, maybe it’s just because of the hiatuses.

I tend to like villains as long as they’re ML or FL, I tend to read angst stories over wholesome, I find it boring imo , and of course I’d never condone bad actions in reality. But I enjoy morally grey characters more than villains or the “good perfect hero protagonist ones.

Yeah I know he’s like that. I’m just saying it’s not an okay thing. And yeah, mental health is still often even looked down upon now, let alone then.
Sorry you had to go through that. I just think word burdensome doesn’t fit because… It’s hard for me to explain. But I will try. Basically I would use that word if someone let’s say only talked to me about their issues, like their issues didn’t hurt me, more like it was smth annoying not harmful. I think if they hurt you, and as you’ve said were emotionally abusive due to it, that just goes far beyond smth like burden.

Idk, if u get what I mean, but basically if someone goes as far as abuse I think a burden is huge understatement of a situation. Also, I know it may feel like you have responsibility to help them. Majority of my best friends had issues. Just wanna let you know, it really is not your responsibility. And his mental state was not an excuse for him to hurt you. I have issues myself and I don’t treat people like that. I also don’t want people to solve them for me. I think support is enough.
Callisto, I get what you say. I do think his paranoia comes from assassination traumas and that his lack of care from people also in some way comes from being raised in toxic environment. I don’t think he’s necessarily a very toxic ML. He is somewhat a red flag, yeah, but I don’t think his behavior is really toxic when it comes to Penelope. Personally, I try not to read stories with toxic ML as they infuriate me. So if he really was toxic, I would’ve dropped this.
Also, I’m not sure if he apologized. I can’t remember. I don’t think so tho? That would be shitty if he didn’t tho.
I don’t think writing is very deep but personally I LOVE this story. I do think it’s more original than others as it’s the only one where (SPOILER!!!)

MC tried to change her faith in the game and fails. The only one MC doesn’t forgive and actually runs away.

(END OF SPOILER)

I love Penelope because she doesn’t just forgive and forget. I love her pettiness, I love the angst, her indifference towards everyone. I love that she doesn’t suddenly forgive years worth of neglect just because they are a little nice to her now. I love that if someone wrongs her, she just crosses them out. I like how cold she is. I like how she makes them regret how they treated her. I was waiting for this kind of story. Personally, it’s one of my favorites and I very rarely see an MC like that.

And yes! Me too! I love angst and I love revenge stories. Villains as MC’s as long as they are more morally grey. And would also choose them over villains or perfect good. I like good protagonists too, but I’m also very petty so I love good revenge stories. I don’t like it when they go easier on the person in comparison to how much that person hurt them.