tonton's Topics (137)

gurl, SAME

I feel that you're right given the direction of the story but I think it should be said that this isn't realistic at all, how the seme has completely traumatized him and gave him so much suffering and he just accepted him in the end.
That much grief and suffering all building up to this is kind of frightening, and from a third party perspective, kind of unforgiving.
But this is just me, ig I don't like the ending cause this is not where I saw this go, but I don't have to be right. (づ￣ ³￣)づ

ah i will disagree on some points

i can accept that hyunsung has some type of caring towards his stalker, but i don't think he really likes him, or cares for him as a person. his feelings for him stem from pity, realizing that his stalker desperately wants hyunsung to accept his love, and so he acquiesces to the situation. perhaps he also started to feel comfortable with someone needing him, and having the company around

i also don't really agree that it was consensual. hyunsung never truly has a choice to not have the stalker in his life. he can either peacefully live with him, or be locked up and worse, but there is no option where he and his stalker part ways. unless one of them dies (which i was somewhat interested in seeing happen to MC just so i could see the stalker's reaction). but i don't believe that is true consent. more like coercion

whether or not its a happy ending is subjective i guess. it could be viewed as happy because ultimately they are able to live together in harmony and have companionship. i personally don't really see it that way though

of course this is all just imo lol and also sorry for the essay i have Too Many Thoughts

first off, i would like to say that I enjoyed your essay of "I have Too Many Thoughts" and you're right when you say coercion. I started at "consensual" for about 5 minutes, because I couldn't think of the right word. and while I do think that the term happy ending is subjective indeed, I meant that the keys aspects of it were covered, as long as you didn't delve to deep. thanks for responding.
(I really hate how this sounds like the discussion boards that I have to do for class, lol)

you're entirely right when mentioning the grief and suffering, but sometimes it's just that people are so forgiving. I mean, looking at some scenes, Hyunsung seems mentally unstable in his own way. While his mental instability is incomparable to the stalker's, I do think that contributed to the ending.

in that case i would agree its happy, since it does seem to end on a pretty light note. and thx for opening the conversation, for some reason i like to get into the nitty-gritty of these things as literature rather than uuuh smut lol

and LMAOOO bl accesses the intellectual in our brains. and i hate those sm. thankfully i only have classes that tell you to respond to 2 others rather than everyone in the class
_-_

i totally get you. that's why i read physiological stuff sometimes even though it's not my forte, because sometimes sex on the first chapter isn't what I want

and yeah, it does. I have written longer responses and have had to cut myself off from writing more when commenting about BL. and then the discussion board rolls around and I can hardly get 60 words in. the good thing is that I only have to write to two people, too.

can I just say, that I just realized what your profile pic and username were, and I think it must've been fate. literally, only a couple hours ago did I rewatch the entire series, after rereading the manga, and I changed my background to Given, too. I love that anime soo much.

i wish i had the willpower to stop rambling, i end up writing several paragraphs analyzing stuff that most people won't bother to read because its such a wall lolol. and yeah for discussions i actually open up a separate google doc to type responses bc its so hard for me to think of what to say in the discussion thread

aaahh i love given!! (obviously lol) the characters have so much depth and feel so real, and the themes of loss, grief, and love, as well as music and talent, are so interesting to me. its one of those stories where i feel like no matter how much i think about it, i don't think i quite grasp everything that it says. a lot of that author's stuff makes me feel that way heh

now i want to rewatch it...and i still really need to see the movie !

I feel like the movie is going to make me cry. am I the only one? I heard it was supposed to focus on Akihiko and Haruki. but there's also the stuff between Akihiko and Ugestu, and that part of the manga made me cry, and I'm really pumped, but I still think it's going to tear my heart up even further, you know?

anything Given causes tears lol. yeah it will def be all three bc all the ups and downs in each relationship are very entangled with each other. aki and ugetsu's super painful and thorny relationship will be hard to watch :'(

have you heard the centimillimental song for the movie? the violin in that makes me Big Sad

im not sure if he's unpopular but i really sympathized with haruki, he's probably my fav out of those 3. kaji was a real bastard to him sometimes though lol

its interesting the different role that music plays in each relationship. in one it causes tension and feelings of inferiority, and in the other its freeing and fun

im very excited for it!! the manga is so beautiful, but there's something about it being animated and coming to life

can we just not talk about centimillimental? if you transfer that to numbers, then you could unlock my phone. i fricking love that song.
Haruki is definitely popular, i love him a lot myself. but I also don't really understand what went on between those three- mostly between ugestu and aki.
but yeah, given captures a lot of aspects of relationships and music that other music mangs don't
i'm a little sad to say that I think Given only became popular because of the anime, but that's still good because it's getting the recognition it deserves.

ah yeah definitely, i slightly get the feeling of "i liked it before it was popular -_-" lol but if its more popular then the story will definitely continue and we'll get more merch + further adaptations. and the author totally deserves the recognition for such an amazing story and beautiful art. like i often stare at the panels for a while just because they are so enchanting

ok i wasn't sure if haruki was popular because i know that ugetsu is a fan favorite, but i'm glad he is loved too. and i agree the relationship stuff between those 3 does get kinda confusing.

what i think it boils down to is that aki and ugetsu were in a toxic relationship where they did love each other, but they also inadvertently hurt each other, with music being the central reason. ugetsu was a gifted violinist, who had so much skill and emotion in playing, that aki felt inferior and jealous when he compared himself to him. like what's the point if i can never be as good as him? and ugetsu was aware of this, and i think it made him feel guilty, because music is the thing he loves most in the world, but he can't fully love and enjoy it because he knows doing so hurts someone he carees about

so their relationship morphed into them clinging to each other in hopes of receiving love and understanding (but also acting somewhat spiteful, because i think they were both pretty fatigued by the relationship). they both were fixated on this idea of finding "the one," but i think there was this insurmountable wall between them simply caused by their different perspectives. ugetsu has so many complex emotions, and to him music is like a part of his body, a lifeline. he can't live without it. i'm not sure aki would have ever been able to understand ugetsu that way, and all of his feelings.

which is why i think ugetsu and mafuyu's friendship is really important and could be so good. they both lost someone they thought could be "the one," and they both are gifted in music, finding it an outlet where they can completely express themselves. so i think ugetsu can receive that understanding that he longs for, because that doesn't necessarily have to come from a romantic relationship

oh nooooo i wrote too much again fdkslfjd

something that i think summarizes ugetsu is that "its lonely at the top." being the best comes with being admired and envied by others, but also the fact that no one can relate to or understand you

I told you once, and I'll say it however many times needed. I enjoy it when you write a lot. besides, this really helped me. I had a general understanding of what went on between aki and ugetsu, but it was also a lot for me to piece together- which you helped with. thanks, by the way.

yep, I really want to see more between mafuyu and ugetsu, because they seem like they'd really understand each other. although ugetsu was rude- somewhat, he also didn't seem like he was good with human interaction. mafuyu, though, just didn't seem to understand any sort of social interactions or cues. and now, I'm probably going to be disappointed if I don't see the prodigies help each other.

I do have one question about Haruki. Does he explicitly get rejected by Aki at some point? Because he cut his hair, and i'm assuming that he was trying to get rid of his love?
but all of this is what is so good about given.

it captures all aspects, or most at least, of life. unrequited love, toxic relationships- but not physically abusive ones, it does have abuse though, mental instability (R.I.P yuki), insecurities, misunderstadings- like honestly, animes that have these points are dark, with no happy ending in sight.

i think everyone here kinda has a different perspective on this, especially on the ending. i’m ngl i’m kinda disappointed with the ending bc i felt the mc didn’t really get justice and that the stalker dude (i forgot his name already ) didn’t get any punishment ya know (unless you count where he got tied up and stuff but that doesn’t in any way compare to what he did to the mc in my eyes). to me even tho it ended with something happy and light hearted, i don’t think that actually makes something a happy ending. i think it’s actually a very tragic ending, the mc just had to accept that the stalker won’t leave him and he feels incapable of leaving, so he just accepts it rather than trying to push him out or even talk about it with someone. i think this whole comic was something very tragic and the ending was the icing on top. i’ve seen some people agree it’s a fucked up relationship but it’s something they accept. i feel like the ending was rushed but i guess it’s open for interpretation from different perspectives bc we all see things differently. i guess what i’m trying to say is that even tho this seems like a happy ending, it’s actually something very tragic and sad from my perspective bc instead of the mc finally sticking up or leaving, he accepts his fate and chooses to stay. i didn’t mean to write a whole ass essay but i tend to ramble about dumb things lol

so I totally agree with all sides of this convo- that it's a happy ending, a tragic ending, or an unfulfilling ending. what I really think, is that all of them are true. in a normal case, the stalker would get the shit he deserves- here he did not. that's why it's unfulfilling.
and the ending is happy because those two are in some sort of relationship, where they hold affections for each other. and they probably live happily ever after- I use the term happily somewhat loosely.
but this ending is tragic. obviously, Hyunsung was traumatized- is traumatized. his safe place was broken into, and that's the smallest thing that happened. that itself is sad, but he was also raped. now, I have no clue what so ever about rape, so I guess this is just my speculation, but because of that act, Hyunsung became attached, Stockholm syndrome I suppose. I do think that was a huge contributor to the relationship between Hyunsung and the stalker. but, there is obviously something more to Hyunsung, that we never get confirmation on.
the stalker said it himself, "do you really want me to leave?", and I'm willing to bet some part of Hyunsung would say no. but that's not the point.
looking at the ending, if you write down the points of it vaguely, it is a happy ending. if you look a little harder you'll definitely be unsatisfied, and if you dissect it, lightly, or literally dig deep, you'd see how sad and pitiful the ending was.
(what is with you all and apologizing? I love your thoughts, don't ever hesitate to tell me. and bonus points because you all are so polite.)

when you bring up mental instability it does also remind me of how ugetsu had suicidal ideation at the ripe age of 6 O_O that was probably also a factor in his unhealthy relationship

for haruki, its hard to say the rejection was -explicit- but its was pretty damn close. in code 20, haruki tells aki that he will do anything for him. while not explicitly confessing, he is revealing how much he cares for aki, and is putting himself in a vulnerable position. but aki responds that even if he tells him, nothing is going to change. to haruki, that probably sounded like, "even if i tell you, you can't do anything about it. you can't help me, you're not enough, you're not 'the one'"

which sucks because i think for haruki helping others is how he shows his love, how he can feel like he is important, so when his extended hand to aki is basically slapped away, he took it as a definite rejection of not just his help, but his love.

of course aki didn't mean it that way, probably didn't want to burden haruki or look weak in front of him, because throughout the story he's trying to become someone worthy of him

i love being able to discuss different opinions and it’s actually civil lmao. the majority of my posts or replies on here are about me discussing how bad rape is in yaoi and people just attacking me for it lmao. i also think my perspective is that of something tragic bc i’ve personally experienced an emotionally abusive relationship where i too felt like even if i said stop it wouldn’t change and a lot of what the mc experienced i felt like i could relate a bit (even tho i wasn’t being stalked lol). ik what it’s like to feel pressured into loving and that non consensual sexual activities are justified bc that person supposedly loves you so it’s okay. i dated someone for so long who would make me feel bad about not loving them so to me this whole comic is just devastating to see him end up with the person who hurt and destroyed him all bc he justifies it with love. it’s interesting to see different perspectives and i’m just glad most of the comments i’ve seen haven’t justified the rape, assault, and abuse the mc experienced bc that’s the absolute worst when people do that

I've never been in a relationship, so half the time I can't say I know what I'm talking about, but people used to come to for relationship advice.
here's something I just want to point out- rape is not justified. it will not ever be justified, anyone who says so is a degenerate fool. but I do want to say this, most classic bl manga (and when I say manga, I mean manga) have rape. and most people know this- but they still complain. those people are the second dumbest people. (the first are just scum)
i'm not justifying it, but i'm saying it, it has rape, can't stand it? don't read.
and in no way am i attacking you about this. attacking someone for actually giving a shit, even if the characters are fake, is just wrong. (i forgot where i was going with this, so sorry if it just seems random)

i love discussing opinions too, when i actually like the subject. but you know, school discussion boards aren't on if this bl comic had a happy ending or not.

and i hope you find someone who's good to you.

my main issue is just how normalized rape is, not only in yaoi but in pretty much any smutty manga. i’m not gonna read it bc i personally cannot stand to read rape scenes bc they make me so uncomfortable. it’s just so tiring seeing so many manga and webtoons with rape and people justifying it just bc they’re handsome. if the character wasn’t handsome people would def have an issue with it which is why it bugs me so much. it’s also so annoying bc usually the seme not only rapes/assaults the uke, but they just have such a trashy personality that i don’t even wanna read it bc i can’t stand them i just want some decently written characters who aren’t assholes 24/7 bc they have too much pride lmao

i understand- that's why i prefer bl manwhas or manhuas over manga, because even though there may be rape in the other types of comics, I feel like bl manga really holds most of the rape
like if I had to make a pie chart on bl's with rape, most of the chart would be manga. it may just be me.

oh i def prefer manhwas bc usually i prefer the art more and it’s also usually colored which is nice. i feel like there’s more variety and the characters themselves are written better. tbh i hardly read any manga nowadays bc i just prefer reading manhwas and webtoons. i also think they handle relationships better and it’s not as rapey too lol. plus the semes don’t have such a stick up their ass, not saying this goes for all manhwas but i feel like there’s a better dynamic between the uke and seme

But I think we fail to realize how she feels is a natural human emotion. It’s showing that she isn’t perfect and that she’s selfish which is normal. I mean I know that I’ve been jealous of my sibling a couple of times because there favored.

you make a good point, and i do realize what she is feeling is completely natural. its just kind of annoying.

Yea I do at times get annoyed too lol

exactly. i don't even know what to say about him anymore. he's beyond words.

NAH MAKE THAT TWO STANS

it's us, we're those two stans

YES OMG! The ending was IMMACULATE

i m m a c u l a t e

it's us, were those three stans