aggravated duck's Topics (1039)

Tbf, I’m pretty sure her father was abusive. Wanting him to die was probably about a lot more than just the bills.

Considering how she feels no guilt about ruining a nice guy who went above and beyond for her....I don't believe her father was abusive. I think she's just an ambitious, greedy, untalented human being who doesn't care who she uses.

I don't get how that negates her father being abusive? All evidence points to her father being abusive. He was abusive to the mother, iirc.

The mother is a wretch. The father apologizing maybe is what makes me think he was weak and he's sorry to be a burden. Are abusive fathers sorry to be financial burdens? I find that a little hard to swallow.

Can you point me to where the father was abusive to mom. I don't remember.

Hmm, I agree with manganiME.
I am also curious where her father was abusive. I read it all recently but don't remember seeing what scenes poined to that.

Hmm, perhaps I remembered incorrectly. Well, her mother was definitely abusive, and her father didn't stop her. That leaves three possibilities: the father was also abusive to Doh or to his wife, who then took it out on Doh; the father was being abused by his wife; or the father didn't do anything. In all three cases, it is 100% understandable if Doh resented or hated her father as a result.

But until we know for sure, it's guesswork. The mother is mean, but she's not starving her, treating her like an experimental rat, and then abandoning her to go make another family. So, we had PROOF Min had endured horrors unthinkable and lived without love and care. We have no proof of the father's abuse or the mother's abuse beyond what we've seen, which isn't anywhere near what Min went through.

And if she really resented the dad, she could have told mom and dad to go fuck themselves and not spend a cent on their bills and just live her life. She ripped off and abandoned TAesoo, why not rip off and abandon mom/dad?

I think that "why not leave" just goes down to that kind of cultural duty to one's parents. Where it's like rather than complaining aloud, kind of just having to take it and figure out how to do it. It seems like at the funeral people expected her to take care of her father saying, "I would hate to burden my child like that" and such. I can at least kind of understand some of that. And even Sooha still talks with her mother despite all that she put her through. There is that sense of love and duty to a parent, somewhere in there at least. Doesn't make it right, but it is real.

And after Okarisu's reply with the different possibilities for resentment, I can kind of understand why Ms. Do is probably just angry at all possibilities facing her. We already know that she is manipulative and will do whatever to get what she wants, she saw opportunity and she snatched at it.

╮(￣▽￣)╭ Either way, interesting discussion! I am enjoying the different perspectives!

So you need to be starving or beaten to be abused? Omg, this honestly pisses me off. Emotional abuse is 100% a thing, and it is such a huge problem and can lead people to suicide. People don't get help a lot of the time because people like you are saying that abuse can only take one form and that emotional abuse isn't legitimate. The way Doh is, she was turned into that. The way her mother acts, whether her father even KNEW about it or not, it is COMPLETELY understandable if Doh resented him for that.
And "why didn't she just leave?" There are so many potential reasons. The culture, she might feel like no matter how far she runs they'll find her, they're family so they're all she has, they abuse her and make her feel like she owes them, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Of course emotional abuse is a thing. But Min had both physical and emotional and off the scale sort that you dont' read in papers. When we get Ms. Doh's background let's see just how much she suffered. I'm guessing nowhere near Min's.

There are cultural reasons for not lying, not cheating, not ruining people's careers. She did that just fine.

Ah, the classic, "You didn't suffer as much as they did, so you shouldn't be complaining or reacting that way."

I am mainly referring to her comment towards her father being understandable. I am not defending her actions, but in the end, no one is the same. Some of us break more easily. Personally, I think Doh's character (and not just hers, tbh) overall is really weak, writing-wise, precisely BECAUSE we have no reason to sympathize with her.

Suffering doesn't effect us all in the same manner. We react in different ways, it shapes us in different ways, etc. Some of those ways might harm people, and in those cases (Doh's, for example), your trauma is a reason but not an excuse.

The fact that Doh may not have suffered as much as Min is irrelevant to the fact that it may have shaped her in a horrible way. My great-grandma was beaten by her husband; one point he beat her so bad she went blind in one eye and was never able to see out of it again My great-grandma was a kind and happy woman. There are women who get beaten by their husbands on far rarer occasions than my -great-grandmother was. Or they only have to deal with the occasional, "You're a dumb bitch," and some other horrible comments. They might be dead inside. They might be cold to people. Did they suffer as much as my great-grandma? Maybe not, but the way they reacted to their own suffering was different because THEY'RE NOT MY GREAT-GRANDMA.

Doh is not Min; Min and his reactions to his abuse are irrelevant. "You didn't suffer as much," is a classic argument that falls into a broad category of similar victim-shaming statements. "You're depressed? There are people who have it worse than you." "Your parents yelled at you for being gay? Well, they didn't kick you out of their house." "You have that disease/disorder? Well, you could have cancer."

And just in case it came off that way: I am by no means angry. I'm just explaining. I apologize profusely if any of my current or previous comments come off as hostile in any way. I just really believe that what we've seen so far is evidence that Doh was abused. Unfortunately, I doubt we'll get into it anymore.

Tbh, I think Doh's character had a lot of potential. A lot of stories like this paint the "evil" girls as so bad that, even with the reasons behind their cruelty shown, you can't feel bad for them. If her main flaws had ended being too scared to keep pushing and convince everyone that Taesoo wasn't forcing to her to say they were dating, that could be a lot. Have the relationship become mutually toxic and chip them both down. Then the mother tells Doh to kick him out. Boom. We have enough reason to hate Doh without her just being plain old terrible. Ah, but now I'm going into random territory. That's all, lol.

Doh's character can have a "repentance/atonement" moment. But right now, she is REPEATING her evil, not learning from the past. For that, I can't cut her slack. She caused a good man huge harm, a man who did not abuse her. And she's not sorry about it. Where is the conscience? At least feel bad that you're a piece of shit.

And she did not suffer as much as he FROM WHAT WE HAVE SEEN. She has suffered, just not at the Min level.

And yes, someone who got slapped around by a husband is not equivalen to, say, someone who was stolen as a child, made to be a sex slave, beaten, and starved. There are definitely gradations of suffering.

An abusive, alcoholic husband. Suffered physical abuse, sometimes being left with severe injuries, one that was permanent. Almost definitely suffered emotional abuse. Almost definitely was forced to submit to sex, probably violently, at times. No family to talk to because she left her home country alone when she was 16-19 y/o. Unable to run to societal standards, religious standards, fear of what her husband what do to her, inability to provide for herself, and eventually because she had children.

No, none of her children were stolen. Essentially was a sex slave to her husband. Beaten. Not starved that I know of, but wouldn't be surprising. She didn't like to talk about him after he died. Her kids likely didn't know the full extent of her abuse, and she likely never shared it. Yes, there are different types and levels of suffering, and we all suffer in our own ways. And you just called her "someone who got slapped around by a husband." I won't even describe how that makes me feel, both for my great-grandmother and for so many abuse victims out there. Probably a sign we should just end the conversation.

My only point was that Doh saying what she did to her father wasn't surprising and that it ALONE was not enough to say she was a bad person. Disagree, if you want. Whatever. Bye.

In retrospect, I realize you were talking about the women being occasionally hit as the "slapped around" ones and not my grandma, in which case I apologize for misunderstanding. However, I think dismissing their occasional physical abuse as being "slapped around" minimizes the abuse, and it still makes no difference to how much they might be emotionally impacted. Still, it's probably for the best we end it here.

I apologize if it seemed like minimizing. I meant it in the reality: actual punching/slapping/hitting. This is abuse and it damages people, but to say that there aren't degrees of abuse, suffering, and consequences...well.

Mrs. Doh is not a weak little abused cowerer. She purposely set out to do wickedly and hurt a person she pretended to care about ( I don't believe she actually cared and did that.) And she's doing it AGAIN. This is not a victim anymore. This is a victimizer. And the abuse I've seen witness of in the manga does not justify it. We will have to disagree. There is no way her mother the bitch justifies her being cruel and merciless to someone who did her kindness. If Taesoo had hurt her, been mean to her, then I could see it. But not the way he was.

That is very serious abuse. And whlie abuse has gone on in my family, not to that extent, certainly. I am very sorry for this awfulness in your life. And no, I was NOT referring to your mom. I was still fully in hypothetical mode.

And what she did in this manga: she is evil. Sorry, she is. She may yet come to her senses, apologize and try to make amends, but right now, I see a woman with food, a place to sleep, clothes, a job, a bitch mom, a financial strain dad, who instead of asking for help or changing jobs, uses the people around her and manipulates. That is villainous behavior. It's intentional harm to others for success/financial gain. In almost any culture, that's villainy.

(o-o) *hides in back* ... so we agree she evil .. ?

you haven't read far enough, the bitch everyone is hating on isnt Sooha - she's awesome - but another woman that is the scum of the Earth and much wouldve been much better for many characters and they would have happy lives by now if she just got brutally tortured and murdered and the murderer left a note telling the truth to everyone.

I can't help but love idiot couples!!

Idiot couple FTW!!!

ikr T.T and then i feel like the idiot for being so stressed when they're going to be alright anyway

I low key they he was gonna reject him but man it feels great to know there gonna be okay