Miwa's Topics (349)

Probably just his canine teeth, manga and anime tend to exaggerate them.... *sometimes that is 0^0*

You see, hanae's dad already died before hanae was born. So it was probably Yahiko(perhaps?) transforming into looked like hanae's dad.. Probably

I thought so too. Yahiko, himself, said that he can transform into "him"; that is, if the "him" he's talking about is really Hanae's father. This is getting so interesting! I'm so excited for the next chapter.

Or it could be a different demon... like his father killer?

That's all great and good but literally there is very little substance in the relationship between the main couple. There is no chemistry involved. The readers get painted this big picture about who they are but the characters themselves do not know a single thing about each other. Yet we are expected to accept they magically have feelings for each other despite being complete strangers to one another. That is my main complaint.

No, I had no real expectations and I still think it was pretty bad. Just poorly paced and with no real point to be made. Almost like the author just gave up on the story she originally had planned because she had lost interest in the main couple.

Yep pure laziness. Little no progress between the main couple. I get that its yaoi but the tags clearly state romance which there is zero of :P oh well.

A mature story for mature people? Really? What was mature about it? Yes, the themes are mature. But the development(if there were any) was childlike. People read the thing and HATED it. A mature story would be one that dealt with the themes properly. Talked about it, discussed it let the characters developed from it. What they author did was give you the the mature themes and did nothing with it. Nothing mature with the couple. I agree with the rest.

The author spent so much time with the other past lovers that the couple had NO development. Maturity is having all these issues and DEALING WITH IT. But they just have these issues barely talk about it but just show it in the past, let it crate problems but the couple does nothing about it. How is this maturity? At least if the main couple BROKE UP for good until the end, it would have made the story much better but the author chose to finish the story with a happy ending without developing the main couple AT ALL. How can you call yourself a mature person if you like these kinds of stories?

Do you not like plot? Do you not like development? Do you just like the drama without the resolutions? Maybe if I was a kid and you gave me this kind of story, I wouldn't have minded because I would be ok with anything as long as there is a happy ending with my fave couple. But I'm not, I rather a story that was good, that had flow, that had development, that ends sad AS LONG AS THERE IS GOOD DEVELOPMENT AND PLOT. But this doesn't.

its a story with mature themes... thats the only things mature about it.

I'm 35 and I can say there is nothing complex in here and is not mature just because has unnecessary bad drama, there is no development at all, their motivations and actions are inconsistent and unbelievable. If you wanna tell a story about how our past can affect our lives and unresolved issued the mangaka has failed. This story didnt make me feel anything either. (〜￣△￣)〜

To address some of the responses:

There is a narrative to this story and it's a meaningful one: when you live in the past, you have no present or future. The "main" relationship, as it were, demonstrates this very nicely by having the relationship seem shallow and lacking in progression. They are going through the motions, perhaps, as one does when they are stuck in the past or future instead of the present. Many aspects of our lives remain unresolved, that is reality. We have relationships that end abruptly, questions that go unanswered, people who fade away for no real reason, and places our minds return to for no discernable reason. Most people live unconsciously, with little self-awareness or awareness of others. We see this in almost every character in the story, and we see how it plays out in work, relationships, and our own happiness.

I don't think there are any inconsistencies or unbelievable aspects of the characters or their relationships. As I said, there are many types of relationships, and people aren't tropes or cut-outs, and all aspects of a story shouldn't be spelled out for the reader (THAT is lazy writing). I really like this work because it portrays the kind of relationship that many people ACTUALLY have in real life (from what I've seen) and it gives us characters that are complex and hard to understand at times, just like real people.

It's sad to see some people not get anything out of the story, but I suppose we get out of a story as much as we put into it. We all have our opinions, but your subjective opinions don't make this story "bad" or mean that the author sucks or has "failed" in some way.

the fact that its titled baker on the first floor, but the whole story is pretty much about them and their exes and side characters, speaks a lot about the story. sorry, but there really is nothing to get out of the story, if anything, i could compare this to those shoujo stories where the girl goes out with everyone else except for the main guy, and only at the end do they get together. tbh, you seem to be reading too much into the story,because of how hard you are defending it. and if you're comparing this to real life, this is a story, where the main focus is supposed to be one or a few people, but its not, and that makes it inconsistent. maybe in real life its normal, because real life is not centered around specific people, but because this is a story, where it supposed to, it looks like the author has lack for direction and focus, and ended up diverting to what she has originally had planned because she didn't know what to do with the characters that she created. just seems like a case of writers block that she couldn't get out of, and it ended up screwing the whole story up.

Agreed.

I also believe it is up to each individual how much and what they get out of things. In reality, you can get way more, and often something comepletely different, out of things than was originally intended. I've learnt a bunch of things that way. ^^

Just adding:

I like to think that each story has its own personality. It doesn't always have to stay inside the lines or be cramped inside a box of rules.

Have you read the ending? Have you read through the end? If you had and can still say that this is realistic I would laugh.

NOBODY is saying that it's not ok to not get back together. But the fact is that the mangaka makes the r/s shallow and its ending in chapter 45 with the COUPLE GETTING TOGETHER evventhough the r/s is so shallow, has no substance and barely has any interaction or resolution. It's RIDICULOUS. Eventhough their r/s is shallow and them saying their love is there when we never see it. Obviously doesn't make sense. You want to talk about how its mature and all but can't comment that the mangaka has dealt with it in such a superficial way.

Instead of simply enjoy the themes, please see that the mangaka is human as well. They make mistakes and this mangaka made a huge on thinking that people are dumb enough to just accept that this is how it is without giving us any development or any resolution.

There is NO SENSE in this story. It's not cute, it's sad but it's done in a way by introducing drama after drama instead of the characters thinking about their actions, thinking about the other person properly and then the characters would blurt out things that makes no sense simply because the author wants to end the story but never giving readers a reason why.

Stop saying it as though the author is truly thinking about the themes and about the plot. It's so haphazard everywhere. What's the point of bringing in all these troubles if the author doesn't talk about it? What's the point of saying oh r/s goes this way and then you let it end so happily where it makes no sense after the direction of the story?

It's all rose coloured glasses thinking 'oh those people are just stuck in the past'. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT HAD THE MANGAKA CONTINUED ON WITH THAT NARRATIVE AND LEFT IT THERE. HAD THE MANGAKA LET THEM BE WITH THEIR PAST LOVERS INSTEAD OF THEIR NEW ONES. OR AT LEAST RESOLVED IT BEFORE GETTING THE COUPLE TOGETHER.

BUT THE MANGAKA HAS MADE THE MAIN R/S SO SUPERFICIAL. BUILT UP THE PAST ONES. THEN WITHOUT ANY RESOLUTIONS TO THE ISSUES THAT WERE PREVALENT THROUGHOUT THE STORY OTHER THAN MAYBE BY ONE OR TWO LINES FROM THE MAIN CHARACTERS THEMSELVES (RATHER THAN LETTING US SEE IT AND SHOWING US FROM THE STORY ITSELF) THE MAIN COUPLE GETS TOGETHER.

How does that makes sense? The mangaka is truly trolling you and you think this piece of work actually has a good narrative? I don't know how many times I would have to repeat it to you but this is a BAD piece of work. Simply because of the BAD writing. It's not subjective because BAD WRITING is BAD WRITING. You can like stuff all you want, it doesn't stop this manga from being a bad writing because it introduces useless themes to create drama and then just continue doing it and then give a happy ending without a proper BUILD UP without a proper DEVELOPMENT. YOU CAN LIKE THIS BAD WRITING ALL YOU WANT. It is still a BAD MANGA.

Sorry but if I had handed this shit in to my creative writing class, I would have gotten an F or D- if my prof was being nice.

But the comment would have been, "Well it seems that you have create constant drama for the sake of drama. And then on a whim decided to let it end happily without creating the development BEFORE or AFTER the drama to let it make sense. I'm really not sure what you wanted to do with this piece."

Why be so concerned with whether or not it was a good piece. What matters is whether or not you enjoyed it, is it not?

Good or bad is a matter of opinion in any case. Either you like it or you don't. People have different views on what is good or bad.

You can say it ain't your cup of tea and that's totally fine. It's just a matter of tatse. All that unnecessary energy used on blabbering about the quality is so utterly pointless..

Just a bit of advice. Nice day~

sorry,but i just had to say, people that actually enjoyed the story and found it "meaningful" are naive. maybe you liked the story, but that doesn't make it a good one.

Who the fuck cares about whether it was good or bad.. like I just said, isn't what matters whether you enjoyed it or was entertained by it?

You could really gain something by trying harder to learn what you can out of everything, instead of it just being handed out or given to you straight.

You're the one being naive, how I see it, if you expect everything to fall right into your lap without any effort.

I disagree with you. There IS good or bad writing. It's why there are CRITIQUES for movies and books. It's why people review things. This story is bad because of its plots and convoluted drama that doesn't even end in a proper resolution.

I don't understand why you are trying to push 'oh depends on whether you enjoy it or not' good or bad. The person specifically said that people can enjoy bad writing. It still doesn't stop it from bad writing. It doesn't mean YOU can tell people that they can't say it's bad writing. Especially since the person has given evidence to show why it IS bad writing. Not simply an opinion. Or somebody saying 'oh this is a mature piece' but couldn't even back it up with evidence. THAT'S an opinion.

What the person did was show FACTS from the manga itself to show why it's a bad writing. It's good that OP wants to use sentimentality and all that for their OPINION but facts are facts. This piece is a bad writing simply because of how they use the plots, the chapters and how it chose to resolve stuff(which it barely did). So you realise how contradictory you are by saying 'there's nothing wrong as long as people enjoy' at the same time saying 'it's an opinion that it's bad writing.'

The bad writing is not an opinion. It's bad. It's one of the only manga in Lezhin so far that I've seen so much dedicated hate on it. Not simply for the themes but to repeat, PLOT, STORYLINE, DISTRIBUTION OF CHAPTERS, RESOLUTION. These are story features and yes, these can be said to be good or bad depending on the story. It's simply story writing. There's a certain way to go about it. A certain flow to be adhered to. Even when you want to manipulate the flow to fit your storyline it has to be done in a smart and believable way. But if you read the manga till it ends, the author does not do that. So it's a bad writing. Enjoy it if you want, nobody's going to stop you. But like the person said, bad writing is bad writing. It's not subjective.

And to your 'who the fuck cares about whether it was good or bad.'

People do.

People who wants to read a good story.

People who paid for the story like that person did.

It's why mangas are better because they have experience editors to tell you if it's good or bad. It goes through multiple people. It's why I think this manhwa is so bad.

If this was simply a sad piece where people dislike the themes. Then that's more subjective to opinion.

But bad writing due to how the author uses plots and all that. Not just the themes. Is NOT subjective. And people can be angry at that because they would wonder if the author thinks that others are so stupid to simply believe that this is the normal conclusion after everything when the author has barely STARTED to set the stage for that ending. It's ridiculous. You should feel offended as a reader and a buyer.

That's so black an white. People keep wanting to show off how much they know and always try to persuade people of how right they always are. Seriously, it's so pointless.. （￣へ￣）

Sure, right, go ahead and feel like you're in the right and all you just said is correct, but what does it matter. Do you feel relieved? I mean, go drown in negative energy for all I care, but will it really be benefitial for you in the end..?

If you don't like something, why make such a big fuss. People are allowed to write and draw what they want. It's your mistake to pay the money for it in the first place.. so you don't really have the right to go and throw a shitstorm at them, do you?

Honestly.. just buy something, read it, if you enjoyed it, good. You gained something. If not, then what the heck. It doesn't help to make such a big fuss over it anyway. Moving on is defenitely the most beneficial thing to do. I mean, am I wrong?

I'm not really claiming much.. I don't really care.. I only wish to give the advice I can. I mean, it's up to you if you wanna listen or accept things as they are, but at least I tried to get my perspective out there.


Just something else I wanted to say.. If I gained something about of what you claim to be bad writing and if I enjoyed it, is it truly bad writing?
What standards are you criticising by?
Everybody has different standards. There's no set rule for writing and there's no set rule for expressing one self. Even if there were, I doubt I would care.. I'd still do ahead and express myself however I wish, since I'm a free person.

Either way you put it, you will not have succeeded in putting my mind inside a box of your created rules.
You can try to reason for your claims all you want, but if I say I think it's good, or bad, you can't really do much about that.

It might have to do with compatability between the reader and the story itself, now that I think about it. If you have something you lack, and the story fills that hole in you, may it be learning or an emotion, you might very well like it.

I have experienced feeling like some things were unnecessary in quite a few stories I've watched/read/experienced, and I can see why some may classify that as being what makes the story drop in quality.. BUT, still! Some people may still find that quality to be entertaining or rewarding. Somebody else might enjoy what one might not. Some might learn from it while another would simply ignore it because they don't gain from it.

So.. in conclusion.. I don't think you can simply classify something as bad, or good, and then brand it as such in a general viewpoint.
I mean.. if you want to try spreading your standards across the globe, then I can't very well stop you.. but I'm afraid that would be a great waste of time, not to mention energy..

But you've got to excuse me. I don't enjoy welling in that kind of negative energy, so I'll pass.
I hope at least some poeple out there will learn.. and move on

I have already stated why it is bad writing. You enjoying it does not mean it stops it from being a bad writing. Please read properly. Nobody should repeat simply because you choose not to read and understand. I refuse to repeat what I said when it was written clearly.

Yes, there's set rules. God, I've just told you. Please reread what I've written.

GO AHEAD. ENJOY IT. NOBODY can stop you. You can choose to 'believe' it's good writing. But facts are, it's not. It's one of the worst.

Do what you want. Why are you so affected by people saying it's a bad writing? Do you not like it when people say it because it seems like you are stupid for enjoying it? ENJOY IT. But now you're simply letting your pride dictate facts and rules.

You enjoy bad writing? GO AHEAD. I won't stop you. I'm not going to say 'oh you're so stupid for enjoying such bad writing'. No, enjoy what you want. I enjoyed things that were bad writing too. I still know it's bad writing. But I like it simply because it's so bad that I love it. But the bad writings I love usually KNOW that they're bad. This is bad but doesn't know it and tries to write itself off as a good piece. People will still enjoy it because every person likes a happy ending after a long sad journey but it still doesn't make it a bad writing.

How many people loved Twilight? It still doesn't stop it from being a bad writing.

ENJOY what you want. But don't let your pride blind you from the truth. Don't let yourself so easily be persuaded that just because it's sad and emotional it means it's good writing. Even those have certain ways to be written. But if you want to enjoy it. GO AHEAD.

I like to read smart stories but I hate most of all is bad writing pretending to be good simply because it's depressing and people get so maudlin over it. I'm tired of the 'oh because I'm feeling sad and emotional over it that means it's a good piece' which is exactly what the OP did.

Worse is that the OP think it's 'mature' when it's not. Those things were countered by the very people in the comment section. The OP wished to dictate people's satisfaction with the manga using 'her FEELINGS' while people used facts and evidence to show why people HATE IT BECAUSE OF HOW BAD THE WRITING IS. Use your feelings all you want, but once you use it as 'facts' your point is moot. And I can't take you seriously.

The fact that you can still say 'oh if I enjoyed it, then who is to say it's bad writing.' When the people before me, and me myself have stated enjoying is not the same as saying it's not bad writing. So just because you're so prideful that you can't take people TELLING YOU THAT YOU'RE LIKING A BAD WRITING. That you have such a GREAT NEED to IGNORE THE FACTS AND EVIDENCE from the story itself. Make you blind to the fact it's bad writing, is deplorable.

LIKE THIS BAD WRITING ALL YOU WANT. I truly don't give a fuck. But when you try to write this off as good writing, you are spitting on the faces of writers who are actually good writers by deeming this deplorable piece of shit as good. But go ahead, use your feelings. I'm done. I really can't take the stupid. Stop using your pride, like the bad writing all you want. I truly do not care from the start. But call it good writing, then I'll wonder your intelligence level. If you have any.

tdlr: like the bad writing all you want. But just because you're so proud that you can't take that you like something that is bad writing that you have to make it seem like a good writing. It's wrong. That's very biased of you. You can enjoy a bad writing. Everybody has reasons for liking a certain thing. But liking something doesn't automatically make it good.

You're only fighting because you think if this piece is a bad writing that means that you're stupid for liking it and your pride is hurt. But that's not the case. You can like it. Many people like bad writing all the time and they don't have to defend their preference.

But bad writing is objective and not subjective. It's still bad writing. You or others enjoying it doesn't make it good. Nor does it make YOU stupid for liking it. But trying to say that it's a good story simply because YOU like it or 'gain' something from it, is stupid.

It seems you're disillusioned to what writing and art are. And I find your statements about opinions and pride ironic. That aside, writing is NOT objective. It is technical to a degree, yes, but writers and publishers can't even agree on grammar, let alone what a "story" or "plot" is. Go up to any writer and tell them "there is a right and wrong way to tell a story" and they'll laugh in your face (if you're lucky).

What you refer to as "good" writing is most likely the Aristotelian plot structure and other predominant views within the academia, i.e., the stuff they might teach you in a writing class. In fact, the academia decides most people's views without them (the people) knowing it (like how people think the stuff they learn in school is "fact" instead of interpretation). A predominant view isn't a "right" view, it's an expected or common view.

Bottom line: there are many ways to tell a story, and it's far from black and white (more like shades of grey, just like everything else in life). Take this from someone who has an MA and has worked in publishing for five years (or don't...).

PS In publishing, we typically judge a work by expectations and convention (how well-received it will be by an audience). I find when people say something is "bad", most of the time they mean "it wasn't what I expected", not only on a conscious level but a subconscious level too. Self-awareness is a key quality of a "good" reader.

Sorry. I can't take your words for it. I can just as easily say that I'm an editor and work in publishing.There are good and bad writing. It's why you get critics for it. If 'bad' is simply because it is unexpected then people wouldn't call this a bad writing since the plot is so obvious. Bad writing is the fact that they introduce plots and points and did nothing to resolve it. Bad writing is writing sad scenes for the sake of sad scenes, but no character development, nothing you can learn from it. Where's the character growth? Why did you bring in 'sad' scenes if it did nothing?

This is an obvious ploy to tug at emotional heartstrings that people and mostly girls will fall for because they are more emotional. Saying this as a girl myself. And people use that as an excuse. Girls like a little bit of sadness so that they feel better when there's a happy ending to it. It's why the mangaka did it so well. If it were to end in a sad ending, you will see so many more girls saying it was a bad writing. Facts is, when you see the comment section after the manga completion. You see exactly this. People who are happy just because the couple ended up together. It's obvious so your 'unexpected' means bad is ridiculous. But then you also have people in the comment section who KNOWS this is a bad writing. But then people like you would say 'no it's only for the mature' which I utterly gag at. Mostly because it reminds me of my teenage self. Sorry, if I'm too old to be happy simply at a happy ending. Too old to take sad scenes just for sad scenes as 'mature'.

I've read books and mangas with nothing but depressing shit but it had a point, it had a resolution, good or bad. But if you put such scenes just so that you can get emotional response from readers, you obviously do not have good planning. It's why people who say 'why do you kill this character suddenly' for tv shows is so that they can get ratings. You do nothing but the sake for viewership and adds nothing to the story.

Essentially what this story did.

And people like you would write it off as a mature piece simply for the emotional response it gives.

Lol. I also saw your reply to someone else. There's a narrative to the story which is a good one. Lol. I really laughed out loud. Now I know why you think it's a good one. What just because you could find the 'narrative' you think it's mature. Even when you have a narrative it has to be properly told. You don't need the large amount of flashbacks to say that you're stuck in the past and you shouldn't be. The mangaka could have done it in multiple ways. She could have shown how past memories affected the present. Affected how the characters interact with each other.

But the mangaka basically showed some scenes of the uke thinking of the new partner as his ex. Repeatedly. Don't actually show how it affects the r/s btw the main characters. Just basically sex and ex face, sex and ex face. How did it actually affect? Very mature indeed. Then the mangaka lazily showed a flashback to explain the whole past. Bring the ex back. Then say that the ex is different from the new one. Without having any context to show that, but readers are expected to take the mangaka's word for it. The mangaka has done the MOST OBVIOUS Tell but don't show ploy. Basically telling you, here sad scene, here flashback, here break up, here 'resolution' and the resolution is basically the fucking character once again TELLING YOU how the ex and the new one is different. Not by the readers seeing the actions, not be the readers seeing how the main characters interact. But I guess people who simply like being told HEY RESOLUTION here without any proper development and buildup would like it. Happy endings all around. Wish I was a teenage girl so I could mindlessly enjoy this story.

Probably why you think it's a good story too.

I literally would have loved if the main characters did not go together. I wouldn't have gotten angry because it made more sense. I wouldn't have minded it if she followed through. But this is beyond ridiculous.

Desensitized club represent.

Agreed :)

and like I've said many times we will get his story starting from chapter 51 so we really should not judge him to harshly. He's not that bad XD

The thing is whether that's true or not if I'm not mistaken he is the reason their relationship ends up damaged in the future. So he ends up sabotaging it either way. I'm not so sure he is really trying to help because he looks genuinely jealous of them and makes moves on Ye Zi even when Xiao Hang isn't around.

Not just you hon.

Real!Ciel is making his yandere side a little obvious to us readers, fujoshis and fudanshis.

I SHIP IT!

Agree!! I'm so happy ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶
Thank you so much!!

I thank you too.

me too I can't wait to see how it's going to end. I still think Allen has the heart.