New Question (AU): What if Asami Were a Police Officer?

My gut feeling is also that if Asami wanted to quit for his own reasons, he would have already done so. :)

A question for any one in favor of a person leaving a job for love: Should Aki leave his job for love of Asami? Aki being less of a target would make Asami's life easier. Asami is a lot more important to his organization than Aki is to the publication Aki works for, and Asami makes more money. Aki isn't even really good at what he does, for all he is brave and lucky. Should Aki prove his love for Asami by becoming the dedicated house wife of the scary day dream?

The thing is, Asami might be happier, but Aki won't be. Rather than Aki sacrificing the job he loves for the man he loves (and then being bored and unhappy), Asami can sacrifice a little peace of mind for Aki's happiness.

I agree. Once more, I don't think Asami wants a passive, obedient lover.

Does Aki want a passive, neutered Asami or does Aki love Asami even when Asami is "evil"?

You're confusing why I used the word love. I was responding to the statement that Asami "loved" his job. Not that he would leave his job for love.

The second is far more likely than the first, given what we've seen. Though I think calling Asami passive and neutered just because he is no longer involved in criminal activities is a little ridiculous. Unless everything that makes Asami Asami flows from his criminal work and his criminal work only.

He's thirty-five. From what we know from volume two about him building his empire, his power is still fairly new. He may not yet feel secure enough to quit. But it's silly to suggest that just because a man at thirty-five isn't ready to retire doesn't mean he won't change his mind and feel differently in fifteen years.

In 15 years? Sure maybe. But that would be moving on for his own reasons. It's quitting now "for love" that seems off to me.

You keep backpedaling on your own arguments. You said "My gut feeling is also that if Asami wanted to quit for his own reasons, he would have already done so." Now you're saying "In 15 years? Sure maybe." So which is it? Either he would have done it or he never will or maybe he will. Let's leave love out of it. Let's leave Aki out of it. Does your gut tell you that Asami will die with his boots on or take the money and run at some point--this week, next week, fifteen years, twenty?

Because you seem to want to insist Asami would never retire if the question of retiring for someone else comes up. But then when the suggestion of retiring at all comes up, then you're okay with it. So is there no middle ground for your image of Asami? He is either completely devoted to his work to the point of being blind and deaf to any possible desires of his lover, and therefore would never consider retiring ever. Or he'll retire one day...I can't even finish that because I'm having trouble following your line of thought here.

Asami doesn't have to be a criminal, but he is a wolf. That is to say, if Asami were a law enforcement agent, he'd be the one who ignored rules about warrants and had his men beat up informants an suspects because that's how he gets things done. If Asami were an elected official, he'd be the one who had a secret extra-constitutional government agency achieving his countries (governments) goals, and who takes out his competition, and he would not care overly much for any "rights" he violated. Asami goes after what he wants, and erases anyone who gets in his way. That's who he is.

Why shouldn't Asami be a criminal? He was a criminal when Aki met him, and Aki was drawn to the darkness (just as Asami is drawn to Aki's light). Trying to change the darkness into light ignores the fact that darkness serves a purpose. Having Asami giving up being a criminal to run for office or play some other leadership role as a wolf might make sense. Having Asami give it up "for love" would change who Asami is--and make him a flufffy puppy who has been to vet and hopefully won't piddle on the carpet anymore.

I don't think the wolf is "evil" for being a wolf. I think wolves play a role in the ecosystem, for all farmers and sheep don't appreciate that role and call it cruel. I think it's sad when some wild wolves are captured and become so used to their cages they die in them, even once the door is open and they can go back out and hunt in a new environment.

If Aki really loves Asami, Aki will accept Asami for who Asami is, even the criminal predictor aspects of Asami. Asami seems to accept Aki."Love" doesn't try to change everything about the one who is "loved".

My *gut feeling* is that if Asami wanted to quit *for his own reasons* he would have done so by now. Asami does not seem to have a problem with being a criminal or doing what is necessary to achieve his goals. In 15 years, Asami's goals and desires may change and he may want to move on to another project--or not. I don't know. Which statement do I stand behind? Both. They do not conflict. I am not saying Asami would *never* retire. I am saying there is no reason for him to retire *now*, and that my impression is that if he had a problem with being a criminal, he would not be a criminal.

From my perspective, it seems as if you are interpreting my comments as extreme and absolute statements, but that is not what I am actually writing. To me, Asami seems devoted to his work for some reason. Whatever that reason is, it seems important enough for Asami to risk his life and devote almost all of his time to it. I don't know what that reason may be, but it seems like it is important to him. I didn't make any predictions about how Asami would die--that was you. I am talking about what seems important right now based on what we know about Asami (which s incomplete). I see evidence that he is devoted to something and that there is no information to indicate he has a reason to give it up at this time. This is my impression of Asami, not some absolute pronouncement of some pretended "objective" superhuman truth. This is my "gut feeling".

Accordingly, I admit that it is possible that Asami may want to retire or change jobs at some point in the future . Asami may also be bitten by a vampire in the future and start drinking blood, but I see nothing in the manga right now to indicate Asami wants to do that. Anything is possible though. I don't know what will happen next, so I can't rule that out.

It's the "desires of his lover" part of your statement that bothers me, not the possibly of Asami retiring someday for his own reasons. First, I think changing who you are for a lover is always a betrayal of self. Second, I think Aki is actually drawn to Asami's darkness and has recently come to accept Asami for who Asami is. What's the point of Aki coming to terms with loving Asami if we then see Aki change everything about Asami that made Asami dark? And if Asami should be "light" for his lover's desires, shouldn't Aki be "dark" for Asami's? Why should anybody change? What was the point of the last story arc? Aki doesn't need to change to be with Asami, and Asami doesn't need to change to be with Aki.

In another thread I also made a sort of "better the devil you know" argument for keeping Asami in power because I think if you look at the greatest benefit for the most people for the most amount of time (or at least for the current situation as we know it), Asami competently keeps order in a way others can predict and work with, and that there is no other character that I know of who would do a better job. This is why I shoot down suggested replacements as less desirable than Asami's leadership. Of course things can and will change in the future. Of course Asami is neither perfect nor immortal. I am saying he does a competent job and is an effective leader, and people benefit from that. When you look at the big picture, it is better to keep him where he is--at least until something changes that would make it more beneficial to more people for Asami to leave.

It seems to me as if you are allowing only two options: (1) Asami "loves" his job as a true "calling", could not give it up for any reason ever, and will "die in his boots" or (2) Asami's dedication means very little to him and can be easily left behind at the drop of a hat or in some misguided attempt to please a lover (and leaving *for Aki* was posed in the OP, so it's part of the context for this discussion--and context always matters). I don't think it is that black or white. I think we have to look at it based on what we know *right now* about whether Asami seems like he wants to give up his job *at this time*.

I'm not interpreting what you say as absolute. What you say IS absolute. "If Asami wanted to quit for his own reasons, he would have already done so" is a clear absolute statement. That says you do not believe Asami would quit, period.

As for Asami dying, one day he WILL. He's not immortal. So it's a valid point of conjecture. Either he dies in the saddle or he retires and dies in a recliner somewhere.

But as far as what we see now, what do we see? We see a man who goes to work every day. We see a workaholic. Do we see him taking particular joy in it? Actually, we've seen him more often distressed or bothered by his work. It weighs on him. Given what we see on the page regarding Asami's feelings for his work, I see a man who is doing what he has to do, not what he necessarily is delighted to be doing and would be lessened by no longer doing.

I don't know why you keep trying to argue Aki with me when I've never argued for or against his influence. I only mentioned "the desires of his lover" because YOU keep bringing Aki into it. But again, your statements there are a jumble of backpedaling. Aki changed for Asami but Aki shouldn't have to change for Asami? Which is it?

But you know what? People do change. That's the whole point of stories. Nobody wants to read a story where the main characters are completely static. We want to read about people who grow through what they experience in the plot. That's the inner journey. As you say, "What was the point of the last arc?" (But then you muddy it up by saying Aki shouldn't even change. You're trying to have it both ways again.) And in a romance--which this is--people do change for lovers. Did Elizabeth Bennett change for Mr. Darcy and vice versa? Yes, otherwise, they would have gone their separate ways, thinking badly of each other. Not changing for the person you love is just something people say because they've been in a bad relationship.

And on the "better the devil you know" thing, again, you have no way of knowing who the other devils are, so that's kind of moot. And I doubt the argument would carry any weight with Asami.

I don't think we have enough information either way to determine whether Asami wants to give up his job or whether he is so passionately devoted to it, he never will. And you were the one who set the original parameters of the argument, even though you insist you didn't.

Not to be picky, but the question I asked in this thread was whether Asami should quit his job *for Aki*. I am specifically interested in the question of whether Asami should give up what he is doing in the name of "love". I even made up an AU with another less "bad" job so we could look at whether Asami should give it up *for Aki*. This is meant to parallel the dilemma Aki created in his head about either being a photojournalist or Asami's lover. Should either have to chose? My personal answer is no.

As to the question of how committed Asaminis to his job (which is not the one I raised), I think there is evidence that right now it is important to him for some reason, even it it may be a means to some other end. There is evidence that Asami works very hard and risks his own life in order to reach his goals, and no evidence at all that Asami wants to quit. When someone appears to that dedicated, leaving the job is not something to be taken lightly. There may be reasons for him to move on in the future (I never mentioned any absolutes such as "never"), but if he ever gives it up "for love", I personally will be a little disappointed. It's not my story, so it won't matter, but in my head I will think less of Asami.

You cut off the "my gut feeling is " qualifier. The "my gut feeling" part is important. It means that the statement that follows is my impression rather than some absolute declaration. Also, you took it out of the context of discussing whether Asami should quit *now* for the love of Aki. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to write, "My gut feeling is that if Asami were guilt-ridden for being a big bad criminal and he really hated what he does, Asami would just quit." I appolguize for giving you room to misinterpret it. Please accept my revision.

I keep bring Aki into it, because that is the context of this entire thread. I specifically asked about Asami leaving his job *for Aki*. That's the whole point in the first place.

As for people changing, you have a point, but the reason *why* people change is important. As we grow, we are still ourselves at the core. For the record, I don't think Elizabeth and Darcy changed for each other--I think that each came to understand the other better and that they got to really know each other and learned to accept each other for who they are. I suppose that's a question of interpretation. To me, charterer growth should be organic and for the reasons of the individual character, not to please another character, especially not a lover. It should mean developing who you are and maturing, not completely changing who you are and giving up your goals and dreams for someone else.

Although the "Better the devil you know (than the devil you don't)" argument is a topic of another thread, the premise behind that saying is that someone you know is better than unknown possibilities, even if the known person is the devil. The fact that other options are not known does not make the point mute--it rather supports the idea that a known is better than an unknown. An unknown is a risk, whereas you know how to deal with a known. That's the whole point.

Asami is his "job". He lives it. his gun is his hand, a part of him. what ever he does he will do fully. He was written to be atop down alpha meant to lead a pack. his Job is to lead. There are some people who no matter, where life drops them will wind up on top and Asami is one of those people. You can love him or hate him but it is the truth. Asami may alter things to make life easier for Takaba. If he can't protect him what is the point of his power? Takaba gets into trouble bec, of going outside of the safety net Asami provides him. Not staying where it is safe. It's not that he does not have the power to protect, Takaba fights against it.(On some level part of a courting dance?). On one level RL it has to end. hopefully, both on an boat fishing. They both like it to much. Asami as E Ness would work well. that's just my opin. though.

Hey RB. I like what you said about Aki fighting Asami's protection as part of the courting dance. That makes sense to me.