Good. At least he apologized and felt bad for it and even thought of giving up on the guy....

KBchan October 1, 2016 8:23 pm

Good.
At least he apologized and felt bad for it and even thought of giving up on the guy.
This is a fictional story, but on real life I'd never ever remain close with the person.

Responses
    Viira October 7, 2016 2:07 am
    Even if you're right and what Viira says is pointless, don't you think you're trying to do the same thing you criticized some comments ago?I mean, you may think it's useless and disagree, but you can't deny tha... KBchan

    I agree with you, usually I try to keep my cool when people get mad at my comments, but theirs just felt so unnecessarily aggressive. I mean, all I did was say I thought it was bad and they started freaking out on me so yeah, it upset me. But I agree! When I comment on something saying my opinion, I expect people to say they disagree and I like talking about it with the other person and seeing their side of things but not if they're just going to talk down to me.

    Viira October 7, 2016 2:13 am
    Not quite, because you see, I’m speaking to them personally and my “criticism” can reach to them (the reviewers) whereas their criticism is reaching to who in particular? Who is their audience? The mangak... @Anonymous

    Okay then...why do you feel like you need to police people in the comments? You're basically saying our comments werent good enough to be shared just because we left one liners saying "I didn't like this" or "that was rape" or "that was gross, this just isnt for me". Why is it such a problem for people to say this? Why are we not allowed to share that we didnt like it? Also, no you cant tell from the beginning how it will end. You never know what twist an author could put in their, maybe the dude was going to have been awake the whole time, maybe he was going to tell him off for taking advantage of him but then ultimately say he wants to be with him, maybe the guy was never going to get caught or confess and was just going to stop doing it and move on with his life. I can't read the author's mind. I kept reading to see how it would play out in the end. I didn't like how it played out in the end. I said I thought the way it played out was bad....why is any of that wrong? Why are you putting people down for saying anything negative about the work?

    Viira October 7, 2016 2:23 am
    No, it seems to me you’ve clearly missed the points I was saying and now choosing to retort in a very rude manner. Granted, I was aggressive, but I wouldn’t be so rude to call others “dipshit” as you se... @Anonymous

    Also, because I just might as well mention it, based on translated comments I've read of people commenting on the people who read yaoi in Japan and are Japanese and the documentaries I've seen on it, no, not all of them can distinguish between what is realistic and it does shape their perspectives. A lot of them are straight, cis women and have no understanding of homosexuality and completely fetishize it and dont see the people in yaoi as real people. They dont see gay people as real people. I've read and watched a lot of stuff about lgbt matters in Japan and because its not something you typically talk about there unlike in places like America where they are very hot topics that everyone is starting to become educated about. I don't understand why you act like you know everything about individual Japanese consumers just because you lived there. Some Japanese people do understand what they're getting into but that doesnt mean it doesnt shape their perceptions in negative ways. It was very sad to watch the documentary I watched where a gay person talked to fujoshi and heard what these women had to say about their perceptions of gay people. Because it isnt a super hot topic in Japan sometimes people there only really learn about it in media and yaoi like this can be dangerous to those people, in my opinion. Its also dangerous to gay people in Japan who are already misunderstood and hurt and ignored as a group.

    Anonymous October 7, 2016 5:18 am
    ALL I DID WAS SAY I DIDNT LIKE IT. Why do you care so much??? If my comment came off as whiney just ignore it? Keep scrolling. There are plenty of other comments to read, why are you wasting your time telling m... Viira

    Again, if you're allowed to address your concern, so surely I can share mines and if you haven't noticed, I have.

    This is the internet, after all. Anyone is free to share their opinion, no?

    Anonymous October 7, 2016 5:22 am
    Okay then...why do you feel like you need to police people in the comments? You're basically saying our comments werent good enough to be shared just because we left one liners saying "I didn't like this" or "t... Viira

    Again, since you felt you were free to criticize a country and a culture that you literally have nothing to go off other than what you witness on the internet and not actual experience, granted, I'll be more than happy to share mine aka someone whose actually lived in the country and experienced life there.

    You're welcome to express that opinion, but it doesn't make it anymore silly of all of you to say aloud when LITERALLY the first page starts off "I raped my best friend" and there were no further tags of angst and the likes. I'm quite sorry that you weren't able to come up with that deduction with your history of yaoi reading and familiarity of this author's work which if you noticed, clearly toys with very offensive tropes in all of her work.

    Also, keep in mind, I've only spoke to three people here and all of you did had to touch on the culture and made remarks as though you EXPECTED a yaoi work to depict real life consequences when clearly that isn't the case.

    Anonymous October 7, 2016 5:35 am
    Also, because I just might as well mention it, based on translated comments I've read of people commenting on the people who read yaoi in Japan and are Japanese and the documentaries I've seen on it, no, not al... Viira

    I'm sorry, but have you been to the country? If you actually spoke to the mangaka and many of the artists there, one's sexuality isn't a public discussion. In fact, most information of people are of private domain and aren't normally brought up. See, that's my issue. You're coming at me and telling me that my experience in Japan is irrevelant whereas you got your information from random comments and documentaries that do tend to focus on the negative aspect of life there and only one aspect of it too.

    Here's the thing. You are again assuming that these works are meant to be realistic and in fact, assume that a majority of Japanese assume that what is depicted in porn is reality when that isn't the case. You are aware that if they truly do believe that what is depicted in yaoi and porn was real, the counts of rape and violence would escalate right? You are aware that Japan is rated one of the top ten SAFEST countries to live right? NOT only to male homosexuals but females too because cisporn (doujinshis and manga depicting rape of all genders, shotacon, lolicon, they feature all sorts of offensive content and yet all the same) is common in the country too.

    Here's the thing again.

    You're again mistakening the fact that a person's sexuality is open discussion in Japan when that isn't the case. Just like how it is in America, you'll come across areas of the country where they're conservatives and others that aren't. A majority of Japan, particular in the more urbanized areas, don't quite care for a person's sexuality. It isn't open information. It's private. Japanese people are PRIVATE people. Go to Tokyo and you'll find an eye opener there. Believe me, if you thought yaoi was truly harmful, I suppose you think the influence of otome games must be truly wide spread too? Not only otome games, but manga/anime as a whole? Let me tell you how it is. Reading manga and anime isn't a hobby that one openly admits and in fact, it's quite frown upon to be considered otakus in the likes. I can assure you now that a majority of the consumers now find it simply to be /fantasies/.

    Yaoi is a genre that's dominanted mostly by female mangakas this is true, but again, if you really think the Japanese consumers take these sort of "entertainment" to heart, I'll tell you now that they'll be met with backlash and ridicule.

    Seriously, do you even know what you're talking about?

    Anonymous October 7, 2016 5:44 am
    Also, because I just might as well mention it, based on translated comments I've read of people commenting on the people who read yaoi in Japan and are Japanese and the documentaries I've seen on it, no, not al... Viira

    You are aware that if you took documentaries as a common portrayal of an entire country, a majority of United States could be considered superficial, egotistic, and hotheaded individuals that love to police others needleesly?

    That China is an entire country full of savages and cheap individvuals that only bootleg items?

    That Russians are barbaric and violent people?

    Documentaries bring out the truth in certain areas, but they don't depict the entire picture. You might want to keep that in mind.

    Anonymous October 7, 2016 5:48 am
    Also, because I just might as well mention it, based on translated comments I've read of people commenting on the people who read yaoi in Japan and are Japanese and the documentaries I've seen on it, no, not al... Viira

    Also, between America and Japan, announcing one's sexuality won't result in death and harm in Japan for the most part.

    It's clear that United States has a long way to go if one's sexuality can determine if they'll live or die whereas in Japan you'll likely be ostracized at worse depending on the area you're in. Something you might want to note again.

    Anonymous October 7, 2016 5:56 am
    Also, because I just might as well mention it, based on translated comments I've read of people commenting on the people who read yaoi in Japan and are Japanese and the documentaries I've seen on it, no, not al... Viira

    Finally, look into the Bara genre.

    You see, that content is composed of a majority of male that often depict realistic porn. There is representation of realistic gay males created by gay males in Japan. Yaoi isn't that representation.

    If you find yaoi to be so offensive to your social justice nature, simply don't read it. It wasn't intended for you after all.

    KBchan October 7, 2016 1:27 pm
    Finally, look into the Bara genre. You see, that content is composed of a majority of male that often depict realistic porn. There is representation of realistic gay males created by gay males in Japan. Yaoi is... @Anonymous

    Ok, when you say this you're saying I can't even criticize something just because I don't agree with it.
    I love yaoi ._.
    And being meant for me or no, I'm going to keep reading it.
    And I'll keep criticizing what I think should be criticized, no matter how famous the author is, how the topic is seen by japanese people or how realistic/unrealistic it is.
    Because I love good stories.
    And sometimes there are stories that are almost a piece of art, sometimes I'm in just for the porn, sometimes I'd love a twisted one and others I'm just in the mood for something sweet.
    And if one of those stories disappoint me, I'm going to state in the comments it disappointed me and why it disappointed me.
    If you think like this I wonder what are your thoughts about globalisation...
    Because if you tell me I shouldn't mess with something that wasn't made for me, then I shouldn't consume anything that's not meant for my age, gender, social class, etc...
    Which is sad, I don't wanna live in a little box with things that are only "meant" for me.
    It's like you say I can't say I don't like tacos because it's a Mexican food and I'm not mexican, so I shouldn't even eat them to begin with.
    Yaoi would be sushi then ._.
    Sometimes sushi is good, sometimes it's bad. But in general I love it anyway.
    So, I'm gonna go back to my sushi and enjoy it all I want.
    Have a nice day, mr./ms. Anonymous.

    KBchan October 7, 2016 1:30 pm
    Finally, look into the Bara genre. You see, that content is composed of a majority of male that often depict realistic porn. There is representation of realistic gay males created by gay males in Japan. Yaoi is... @Anonymous

    Oh, also, I'm sorry if I offended you in anyway, if that happened, it wasn't my intention.
    I'd actually never guess this would become such a loong discussion.

    Anonymous October 7, 2016 5:17 pm
    Ok, when you say this you're saying I can't even criticize something just because I don't agree with it.I love yaoi ._.And being meant for me or no, I'm going to keep reading it.And I'll keep criticizing what I... KBchan

    That’s the thing. I didn’t say you couldn’t criticize it, just that you’d be pretty silly to do so when the first page literally states what kind of manga this is. I was just informing you the background and environment in which the mangaka was working with aka Japanese consumers, not any other audiences.

    Continue to criticize it, but keep in mind that it’s not going to change anything, that the only person who can see your “critique” are other readers in which case you already defeated the purpose of giving critic, and its more like a review for other pirates than trying to improve the mangaka’s stories.

    Now that’s pretty funny. It depends on how globalization is done, but as of now, I can tell you now that the rate of which Japanese yaoi manga is being licensed is pretty low because consumers aren’t buying it. If you truly want to support the globalization of yaoi mangas, I suggest actually buying the product? As of now, a majority of the English consumers are simply pirates and in fact, that’s working against the licensing of official yaoi goods. For the most part, the impression of the English audience to most artists and mangakas are that a majority of the foreign readers are pirates and that everything must be free. (Seriously, it’s at the point where if you were to meet an artist / mangaka / doujinka, they actually beg you not to upload their work online if they were to meet a foreigner, it’s pretty sad.)

    That’s a pretty inaccurate example actually. It’s like this, if your friend wrote you a story and uses references and idealisms that’s special to you, it would make sense that the content makes sense to you regardless of how humorous or offensive the content, but by some chance, someone steals that story and reads it aloud and begins to criticize it. They don’t know where the author is coming from with the story, so they take everything written in the story as the author’s ideals when in reality, your friend could have written it on a whim. Keep in mind the audience.

    This is the definition of Globalization: Globalization is a process of interaction and integration among the people, companies, and governments of different nations, a process driven by international trade and investment and aided by information technology. This process has effects on the environment, on culture, on political systems, on economic development and prosperity, and on human physical well-beingin societies around the world.

    At this current time, I strongly believe the reading of illegal content of yaois isn’t quite the same thing as globalization.

    Anonymous October 7, 2016 5:25 pm
    Oh, also, I'm sorry if I offended you in anyway, if that happened, it wasn't my intention.I'd actually never guess this would become such a loong discussion. KBchan

    I'm not actually offended (other than seeing Viira literally talking about a country they have no experience in, other than what they heard on the internet and "documentaries," and assuming as though that manga reflects the Japanese's ideals and state of life) when that isn't the case.

    If they want to talk about social issues, the more demanding ones in Japan to worry about that affects EVERYONE there is the conditions in which people overwork and for the little pay they receive in compensation (ie., content creators particularly such as animators, artists, doujinkas and mangakas receive honestly very little profit with their work, working long hours and driving themselves to hospitalization.) and the rigorous academic expectations to excel or be driven to depression / sucide if those ideals aren't met. Suicide is high in Asian countries, particularly Japan and South Korea.

    As a said, continue to read it, it's there, but just keep in mind the intended audience of the piece was never for you and that your criticism isn't going to change anything is my point.

    Viira October 8, 2016 12:04 am
    Again, since you felt you were free to criticize a country and a culture that you literally have nothing to go off other than what you witness on the internet and not actual experience, granted, I'll be more th... @Anonymous

    I didnt say I knew this artist. I didn't. I dont know what she does in her other work. I didn't even expect it to have a realistic ending with a trial and prison time. I read because I wanted to see what the writer did. Finished it and thought it was a weak ending and called it bad.

    Viira October 8, 2016 12:10 am
    Again, since you felt you were free to criticize a country and a culture that you literally have nothing to go off other than what you witness on the internet and not actual experience, granted, I'll be more th... @Anonymous

    Also I'll be going to Japan this summer with my college so I guess I'll find out :) I've only been interested in Japan since I was in elementary school and studying up about Japanese culture and talking to Japanese students and teachers and being part of my school's Japanese Student Association and trying to understand a lot about Japan basically my whole life...but you know, I couldn't possibly know anything good enough or on par with the knowledge of you who lived there before.

    Viira October 8, 2016 12:14 am
    You are aware that if you took documentaries as a common portrayal of an entire country, a majority of United States could be considered superficial, egotistic, and hotheaded individuals that love to police oth... @Anonymous

    Exactly. I didn't say every person. I said some. A portion of the population. There are real people that these documentaries accurately describe. I didn't say everyone in Japan is like that because they're not. But I'd say based on what you say about the US, is that not a really good description? It accurately explains a lot of people that live here and a culture of being too interested in caring about what other people are getting to do and not do. Its not like making that generalization is saying that is all Americans and the US are but it is true and useful information about the place.

    Viira October 8, 2016 12:19 am
    Also, between America and Japan, announcing one's sexuality won't result in death and harm in Japan for the most part. It's clear that United States has a long way to go if one's sexuality can determine if they... @Anonymous

    Where did I say they would die? I said it was dangerous. It can get kids kicked out of their home, their families wanting nothing to do with them, their friends ignoring them. Those things can make them depressed and make it difficult for them to lead their lives. If they get really depressed they could turn to self harm or suicide. Those are real possibilities for gay Japanese youth. So....how can in not result in harm? You...don't count mental or emotional harm? Or you just assumed I meant people are going to try to hurt them? I know thats not typically how Japanese people work. They follow social cues and ignore people or distance themselves from uncomfortable situations or controversial things when it can become inconvenient. Not all Japanese people, but yes, I know that ostracize people.

    Viira October 8, 2016 12:47 am
    You are aware that if you took documentaries as a common portrayal of an entire country, a majority of United States could be considered superficial, egotistic, and hotheaded individuals that love to police oth... @Anonymous

    You know, I don't understand why you guys want to act like I cant know anything about Japan because I haven't been there yet. I realize there is a lot of inaccurate information about a lot of countries out there and especially Japan. Everyone that doesn't know anything about it spreads all sorts or rumors based of niche groups in Japan or spread misinformation saying stuff there that they do is serious when the weird stuff in Japan is weird to Japanese people too and is meant to be entertaining. I try to be very careful about what I hear about Japan. I try to make sure I verify everything I learn about it. A lot of it is easy to call bullshit on but for other things I actively seek out confirmation as to the validity of the stuff I learn. I speak to people who live/have lived there. I take into account whether or not they are actually Japanese or how long they're lived in Japan and studied Japanese. I look at multiple sites and find out how valid those sites are so I can judge how much I should believe their articles. I ask people to check with actual Japanese people they know or I talk to Japanese people I know. I take it all with a grain of salt. I'm not some heartless asshole who wants to spread misinformation or act like I know everything about Japan or know more than somebody who has lived there and seen the culture in action. But you guys clearly want to act as though I do when all I did was comment on was small aspect of parts of groups in Japan. Not all of us are so lucky to be able to live in or travel to different countries so I have to work with what I've got until I get to visit Japan for myself. I care about the accurate portrayal of Japan and Japanese people and want to know more and more about it which is why I actively seek information, correct information, about it. I just don't see how you can say nothing I know about Japan is valid. Especially when you confirmed some things I would say...You'd just go into more detail or talk about a half of the same coin I was talking about. You just didn't like what I originally said and it really feels like you simply don't like me so you just want to knock down and try to prove wrong everything I say.

    Anonymous October 8, 2016 1:29 pm
    I didnt say I knew this artist. I didn't. I dont know what she does in her other work. I didn't even expect it to have a realistic ending with a trial and prison time. I read because I wanted to see what the wr... Viira

    Then why did you bother to comment on this portion here of your comment: “ If you feature rape in your story, don't do it like this. This just glosses over it. Makes it seem like no big deal. This is not how a real victim would react and whether or not you forgive the person IT IS A CRIME. Rape is a crime and when you commit it you need to be held accountable. Sorry if your head was in the wrong place, sorry if it was a lapse in judgement, sorry if you'll never do it again. You made a choice and there are consequences. Gotta deal with them. Nobody is ever as sorry for what they have done as they are for getting caught.”

    The way you phrased it made it sound particularly that you expected to have a realistic ending. Just about every yaoi reader knows that a majority of yaoi mangas don’t depict this. Not even Harada for one ever reflects in repercussions of crimes in her works and in fact, the manga tends to end in the favor of the rapist which is exactly the same of how it was done here.

    Enjoy. As an army child of mixed parents, I’ve had my experience in various locations of Japan so do keep in mind that not all places behave in the same fashion. Here’s the thing. I came to America with the expectations and knowledge that you likely encountered with yours, information from the media, individuals currently habituating in the United States, attending an broad school and funny enough, what I heard of United States was unlike what I expected. You may find that to be the case for you. Your own experience often trumps “rumors and second hand knowledge.”

    In every country, there is bound to be discrimination. However, the way you put it, you made it sound like a significant portion of the population suffer from it. Regarding United States, no, I wouldn’t say it’s an accurate description of a majority of the United States. As I have stayed in California, New York and Arizona, that wasn’t the experience that I had. As I said, documentaries don’t always paint the big picture and that was the case for me in both Japan and the United States.

    I was comparing the severity of outing one’s sexuality in Japan compared to America since you felt needed to tell me what you saw in this documentaries regarding Japanese gay males. As I said, between Japan and the United States, I’d take my chances of publicly revealing my sexuality in Japan to the United States where the outcome tends to be far more worse. Keep in mind, being ignored and ostracized is painful but at the very least, you’re still alive. That can’t be said for the United States could it? Just looking on the news and the rate of violence and murder done towards gay individuals is alarming in the U.S.

    Anonymous October 8, 2016 1:46 pm
    You know, I don't understand why you guys want to act like I cant know anything about Japan because I haven't been there yet. I realize there is a lot of inaccurate information about a lot of countries out ther... Viira

    Because you truly can’t understand how a culture could work until you witness it for yourself and experience it for yourself. Until then, there isn’t total immersion. You can ONLY speculate with the information you learned from the internet and second hand knowledge from others. It’s like this, say if you take a course to learn a language. You know the rules, the grammar, the structure and you have peers to help you out with it, but when it’s time to actually use the language on your own, you’ll find that it’s actually a lot harder and more complex than you realized. In fact, what you learned initially may not hold true at all. This is the case here.

    You don’t really know how it’s like. You can only speculate. Until then, I would suggest that you don’t speak as though you know the country. The ONLY reason why I even interfered in your discussion was because you felt needed to say this: “ Japan still has a long way to go. There are just so many bad stereotypes in yaoi and some of these writers really cant look past it. If you feature rape in your story, don't do it like this. “

    Your comment honestly came off as though you thought mangas, particularly yaoi mangas and the likes, shapes the lifestyle of Japanese individuals when that couldn’t be further from the truth. Those stereotypes you see in yaoi mangas may occur in the United States, but that’s no fault of Japanese individuals. They don’t need to police their content because the country is a relatively peaceful one. We can both acknowledge that Japanese works depict quite offensive material ranging from pedophilia, violence, rape, murder, incest and etc., and the reason for it is simply because the consumers often know it’s all entertainment. To engage in such behavior in reality would result in horrible consequences for them.

    Between you and I, you weren’t able to refute what I said but I was definitely capable of refuting some of your comments. Bottom line, your criticism is useless. That’s it.

    The intended audience was not you, you are not supporting the mangaka nor will she see your “critique,” in which case, who is your audience again? Pirated readers that came to this site for the same reason everyone else is? Bash it all you like, but it won’t change the fact that nothing will change and to expect realistic outcomes in explicit yaoi manga is honestly hilarious.