Well that was intense

I agree that the comment you did not like had flaws, but I saw different flaws than the one you identified. The criticism that followed was aimed at the comment we both disagree with. I am just saying it did not represent feminism.

Oh HAI! i guess you're back in this conversation after so long, conspicuously after Maitafenien as decided to respond to me in ernest, welcome back. I honestly don't see how you couldn't see feminism in that persons comment, but i suppose we'll have to chalk it up to difference in view points.

has*

The amount and type of influence media has on real life is questionable--and there is always a "chicken and egg" issue. Stories can be powerful, but they do not determine the readers thought--rather the reader decides what to take away from them. For example, some people read Mark Twain's Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and think the use of the n word perpetuates racism. However, reading the book does not cause thinking, educated readers to start using the N word--rather most who really get what was being put down see it as a criticism of the racism being described. The racial slur may have been normal at the time the book was written, but the book did not normalize the racial slur, nor does liking the book make a reader racist. The reader may be influenced by the book, but each reader decides what message, if any, she or he will take from it.

Fiction is different than real life. Fictional elements are not always direct nor literal. Readers are not blank slates. Judging fiction as if it were real life is logically flawed and relies on false assumptions.

1. Yes, media can have affect persons opinions IRL. Your response to that was to ask if I read about crack users and then go and do it myself. That's called a straw man. So I went to pains to show how "influence" does not mean turning the audience into mindless zombies.

2. That's another straw man. To describe someone as having a harsh opinion on a group does not equate to describing them as murderers, AT ALL. Come on.

3. I didn't cite anything because I honestly didn't think it was worth the effort. I've tried my best to interpret your posts in good faith even tho your first comment in this thread was essentially telling another poster to shut up, and your responses to my comments are riddled with fallacies.

Governments across the globe monitor and even censor media to varying degrees because it is widely accepted that media influences the populace. That's why some of them even control their media (not just the news but music, books, film etc) in order to shape the minds of the population.

If you're interested in learning about the specifics how media interacts with other facets of our life to shape minds you can make the effort to learn or not. If you don't want to, cool, but I'm tooootally not gonna do the work for you by looking up giving you the primary sources, soooooorrry lol. Only obv, general examples from me.

(Btw, you don't have to correct your typos or mistakes in follow up comments to me. I get that we make mistakes on here at times, no judgement.)

I sometimes have to do things that take me away from the Internet, and I sometimes spend time in other fandoms. Sorry. :)

I was reacting to what I saw a characterization of feminism as one united way of thinking on all issues, though I agree the comment seemed like it had an axe to grind. I see why you think it was feminist. It may represent a type of feminism, or some feminist views--but not all feminist views (because there are many kinds). That's why I want people to know I am a feminist in general (because I believe in equality of the sexes), even though I feel very strongly that fiction and fantasies should not be judge by real life standards.

"The amount and type of influence media has on real life is questionable". - Sure, that's still being debated and yes it is complex and works in connection with other factors.

Stating that stories can be powerful is the same thing as saying they have influence --what else defines its power? But obviously it doesn't make us zombies and I never said it did. Again, I can only point to the definition of "influence" for clarity on what I mean.

The rest of your post must be a response to someone else except that I haven't read anyone in this thread who stated that fiction is the same as real life, that readers are blank slates, etc In fact, all the original anon did was ask persons to reflect and ask themselves some questions and maybe try and draw some connections--that's it!

These discussions would go a lot better if we grasped and understood the nuances being presented. It's like each of us are talking to a wall lol barely any actual communication happening. I feel sorry for the notifications of the thread starter. I'll try to keep quiet from here on out (⌒▽⌒).

Hang on am I no longer allowed to express my opinions because it differs from yours? If this is your first reaction to my comment, then....

You could always just move along and let my comment die uncommented, too you know rather than chasing me out. But you choose to boo me and chase me out. Did I cur too close to your comfort?

"Influence" is so general as to to be meaningless--and that the power (or meaning) any story has is up to each reader to determine and is different for each person. Therefore "It's just fiction" (meaning that we should not treat make believe as if it were real) is always valid.

Oh, i just correct myself for my own pleasure.

Exactly.
Maybe I just never did phrase it as eloquently as you did.
When i first saw this girl and when subsequently I saw what was assigned to her, I knew that she's going to be painted a certain way and then be one of the victimes.

Much like in yaoi you are hard pressed to find female characters that are decent and don't bitch, or any female characters at all.

I am just asking why is that?

I honestly did not expect the reactions that I received.

These discussions would also go better if you said what you meant instead of a generalized statement that could be interpreted in any way. I know what you mean about talking to a brick wall though, i've literally pointed out the sections of your responses that can be taken as that you think that reading manga effects your frame of mind IRL, but you just keep talking about how i don't understand without addressing any of the instances that i mentioned, but whatever, i suppose you'll do whatever it takes to make it look like you meant something else since it's obviously a very obsolete way of thinking and you don't want people to think you have such ridiculous thoughts because you're a smart guy, right?

Oh no, i have no issues with you posting your thoughts, but this is a comment section meant to discuss the manga killing stalking, not feminism.

how is me stating that they went from talking about jieun to talking about feminist topics me saying that feminists all think in one way? I feel like you're diverging from the original topic in an effort to demonize me.

Oh my~ i don't think i prepared my anus enough for 3 people to take me on at once~

As Anoni Grrl said, I am not talking about feminism.

yeah, okay. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

"Much like in yaoi you are hard pressed to find female characters that are decent and don't bitch, or any female characters at all.

I am just asking why is that?"

Because yaoi is a type of erotica focusing on males in same-sex relationships (or activities). This "porn with a plot" is largely written by females for a mostly female audience. The point of yaoi is to portray fantasies of what some women find hot focusing on imagined male on male sexual activities and the passions some like to image develops from that. Female characters are irrelevant to this type of erotica, unless they somehow play a role in furthering the plot. Often in romance/erotica, the role of characters of any gender or sex who are not one of the main couple is to be a villain or obstacle that provides conflict or motivation for the main characters. The whole point of yaoi is to focus on two hot guys having sex in way many readers find stimulating.

Killing Stalking is much more like a thriller or horror story than a Yoai story. Jieun was given much more development than the gay man who was killed before her. This is probably so we could see the similarities to the girl in the flashback, but still--both of those female characters were given enough page time that many readers found things to like about them. Jieun's function was much like that of the old gay man's--to be killed based on similarities to people who caused Bum past trauma. That was the role of both in the plot.

The answer to that is: because drama/plot. But i fail to see how you saying: "Are you sure you have never in your whole life criticize even to yourself how a woman looks, acts, or thinks?
Why is feminism still a polarizing topic? Why is Planned Parenthood still picketed? Why are women's marches still needed? Why are legislations calling women "hosts" and why are pro-choice a dirty word for a majority of the world?" could be interpreted as anything but feminism, how does any of that sound like you asking "in yaoi you are hard pressed to find female characters that are decent and don't bitch, or any female characters at all. why is that?"? If i was wrong, then i apologize and that should be it, but it really seemed like you used jieun as a foothold to bring feminism into the mix and thats what you were wanting to talk about from the beginning.

I am not trying to demonize you. I mostly agree with you. I wanted to clarify that I am a feminist because sometimes on the Internet, "feminist" use used like a dirty word. It wasn't an attack on you.

Let me reword it as "As a feminist, I agree with your conclusions, but I have different reasons for doing so." Better?